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Invisiblethoughts
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Jesus Christ!
    #7519549 - 10/15/07 01:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hello to everyone in this forum. I think this is my first post in here.

Well let me start by telling you that i was brought up catholic and still am, but im also a skeptic. I havent read the whole Bible, and im not an expert on religion, so i guess i kind of have the right to ask what some might think are stupid questions, but doesnt everyone?

So, this new idea came to thought a few days ago after i watched a show on the book of Revelation on the NatGeagraphic Ch.

My thought was, if God's commandment of "Thou shalt not have any other gods before me." is followed by people, and was taken by (Moses?) wayy before Jesus came....then why have so many people come to believe that Jesus is the son of God, and have put him up on the same level as God. Wouldnt that make Jesus evil?


--------------------
I need Jesus.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519557 - 10/15/07 01:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Wouldnt that make Jesus evil?

Absolutely.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7519574 - 10/15/07 01:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hah im glad someone agrees with that, but man..its such a trip to think of it like that.


--------------------
I need Jesus.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519588 - 10/15/07 01:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It's easy. I also think religion and God is evil.  I feel good about this belief and sit easy with it these days. :lol: Especially after hearing the religious debates here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/15/07 02:16 PM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519596 - 10/15/07 01:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Why would other people's perception of Jesus make him evil? Coming to that conclusion is a bit like saying, "Because so many people think God told George Bush to run for office, doesn't that mean we should support the war in Iraq?" Or something like that.

Also, in Catholicism, Jesus is the son of God and is not really an entity distinct from God - so worshipping him is not only acceptable but is itself the way for human beings to know God. So it would 'good', not 'evil'. Or that's my shoddy understanding, anyway.

It's good that you've adopted an attitude of skepticism.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Lion]
    #7519636 - 10/15/07 02:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Its not about what other people think about Jesus, its what you yourself believe.
I sometimes think Jesus was an ordinary guy, just like you and me, who was just experienced with the spiritual world and saw a part of God in him. Me, myself, and many other people also believe that we are part of "God" or something bigger, and vice versa.

I half agree with worshipping him to be able to know God, but what i think the way to know God is not by worshiping someone else. I think it is by looking inside YOURSELF and finding God and love by searching inside yourself.

I think religion should be a personal "belief" or "truth" or whatever you want to call it. But we each will have our own unique religion. Even if you agree to the same concrete idea as everyone else that belongs to your "religion", there will still be some differences that makes yours unique.


--------------------
I need Jesus.


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OfflineLion
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519665 - 10/15/07 02:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Its not about what other people think about Jesus, its what you yourself believe.


Well, you asked if the fact that people worshipped Jesus made him evil, to which I replied - how could other people's beliefs make a person evil? Many people have offered ideas which promote peace and harmony and have had those ideas twisted to malevolent ends. That does not make the person who espoused the ideas malevolent.
Quote:

I half agree with worshipping him to be able to know God, but what i think the way to know God is not by worshiping someone else. I think it is by looking inside YOURSELF and finding God and love by searching inside yourself.


I agree that the answers lie within and nowhere else. I think on this issue you and I both differ from Catholic dogma, which would have you believe that you have to look away from your sinful self and worship a supreme being without having been given evidence of its existence.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519695 - 10/15/07 02:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

there was a man who offered advice to his fellow humans.
his advice happened to contradict the prevailing authorities at the time.
they killed him and decided to co-opt his words and use his image to draw people into their control.

and remember, any old asshole with high technology can call themselves God.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Clean]
    #7519708 - 10/15/07 02:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So true Mr.Clean.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSilvermind
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519731 - 10/15/07 02:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iwasaClown said:

So, this new idea came to thought a few days ago after i watched a show on the book of Revelation on the NatGeagraphic Ch.

My thought was, if God's commandment of "Thou shalt not have any other gods before me." is followed by people, and was taken by (Moses?) wayy before Jesus came....then why have so many people come to believe that Jesus is the son of God, and have put him up on the same level as God. Wouldnt that make Jesus evil?




I believe that God is three persons: the father, the son and the holy spirit. jesus is an idol or god to be worshipped. he is, was and always will be God. john 1 can explain a lot of that.


--------------------


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7519736 - 10/15/07 02:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

any old asshole with high technology can call themselves God.



i should say this statement has nothing to do with the "you are all god" thread in the other forum :lol:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7519901 - 10/15/07 03:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Orthodoxy, in response to major sects (Separatists, Docetists, Adoptionists and Patripassionists) decided upon the paradoxical conclusion that Jesus Christ was 'wholly God, wholly man." This unique being could not be divided in His dual natures (as in the variations of the four sects above). Therefore despite being 'wholly man,' His status as 'wholly God' supposedly did not compromise the Oneness of Deity. Equally paradoxical, perplexing and (to me, now) utterly contrived, is the concept first named by Tertullian and later explicated by Augustine, namely: The Holy Trinity. Hebrew theology had numerous Names for God. Tertullian collated the familiar terms supposedly used by Jesus: Father and Holy Spirit and came up with "Trinity." The formula became "Una Substantia, Tres Personas," or 'One Substance in Three Persons.' Because of this theological contrivance, Muhammed believed Catholic Christians to be polytheists!

Jesus Christ's unique formulation of one person in two natures didn't help any, unless of course one interprets this Gnostically, which then comes across as Hinduism's understanding of Reality as Purusha (Formlessness) and Prakriti (Form), or Buddhism's corresponding Nirvana and Samsara. That means that ALL of us are composite dual natures of spirit and matter. Orthodoxy paints Jesus Christ's nature as unique, and further, attempts to make Eternal Life as this 'thing' which is given as a gift, but which can be lost through indulging in our material nature (which is called sin). In fact, Christianity paints many spiritual verities as 'things' which can come and go, be given and taken. All of these 'things' of course relate to our form and to our ego-identity comprised of mind-body which perish at death.

To suggest that our spiritual nature is co-equal with God ("the Father") is pure heresy and makes each human being ontologically equal with Jesus Christ. Even "the mystical body of Christ" is considered to be a 'body of believers,' AS IF one's spiritual condition is dependent upon mere thoughts, upon thinking or believing a particular doctrine. This is where Gnostic Christianity takes the same point of view as Buddhism. One does not 'receive' the Holy Spirit any more than one 'attains' Buddhahood. One Realizes that one IS, at bottom, the Holy Spirit as one Realizes that one is already Enlightened. It is, in both formulations, the Experience that one IS, Ultimately, Being-Consciousness Itself. This, I 'believe' is what Jesus taught - NOT just about Himself, but about how it is for each of us. Egos tend to interpret these Unitary Experiences egotistically and therefore at a completely opposite interpretation than the Gnostic one. When Jesus was attacked for saying "Before Abraham was, I AM," He was affirming His eternal nature beneath His mind-body. He was attacked for making Himself equal to God. We will ALL be attacked for making the same proclamation, even though it is true for all of us. Jesus was not being a colossal ego, He was affirming the TRUTH about Ultimate Reality.

It is the dualistic interpretation of orthodox doctrine that dices up the Oneness that Jesus expounded in a monotheistic idiom (versus a monistic one). That this Oneness was personified and named and given attibutes may be interpreted crudely by crude minds, but the Living God of Jesus far transcends the stupid theological interpretations that have driven so many people away from the Truth "in which we live and move and have our being."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/15/07 05:39 PM)


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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7520121 - 10/15/07 04:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Very well said man. :congrats:

kind of cleared things up for me. thats what i like to hear.


--------------------
I need Jesus.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7520268 - 10/15/07 05:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

God hating minions of Satan have always tried to deny Christ's Diety, but what saith the scriptures?


Jesus created the universe something only God can do:

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Isa 44:24 I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Since God alone makes all things, and Jesus created the universe, then Jesus must be God.



Jesus uses the term I AM and declares His everlastingness, something only God possesses:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:3 shows Melchisedec was a type of Christ who was:
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Rev 22:13 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



Jesus is fully God in every way:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Heb 1:3 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;



Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do:

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

The scribes realized Jesus was claiming to be God and considered it blasphemy: But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?



Jesus spoke as being equal with God and one with God, the Jews understood the implications of this claim and this made them furious:

Joh 10:30-3 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



Jesus accepted worship as God which would be sin if He wasn't God:

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mt 27:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Lu 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus never rebukes anyone for worshipping Him.



The Saviour and God are one, and if the Saviour be God, Jesus is the Saviour, and Jesus is God:

Lu 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Isa 45:21 ...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.



He that honors not the Son honors not the Father:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7520314 - 10/15/07 05:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7520390 - 10/15/07 05:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7520520 - 10/15/07 06:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks. We have orthodoxy which means 'right view,' and we have heresy, which originally only meant 'sects,' but came to be perjorative. Heresy means 'choice.' I no longer place any trust in the founders of orthodoxy. They had their own agendas and with the help of scribes, they intentionally corrupted original meanings of scripture in their frothing fight against the Christian sects that they (under the dictates of a brutal Emperor not even a Christian himself) wished to defame. The corruption of Christianity was almost immediate and it became the new god that empowered the 'Holy' Roman Empire (as unholy as an empire could be). This is my next book choice. The author is a brilliant teacher and a prolific author. My Lady purchased his DVDs on Christian history:



Christian imperialism - the intolerant and bigoted claim that belongs to Ann Coulter (the beautiful side of ignorance) and Fundies in general that Christ is "the only Way," fails to understand that The Way as expounded by Jesus of the Gospels IS singular (the Tao means 'Way' and its Way is the Way of Compassion and Oneness as well, for a clear example). The Jewish carpenter(?), itinerant rabbi (teacher) is long gone, but The Way is more than a path for human beings. It IS 'the kingdom of God/Heaven' (Matthew the Judaizer didn't like to use the Names of God, so he changed it to the impersonal form of Ultimate Reality - Heaven. Heaven is not a 'place' in which God 'dwells' if the word place means a locus, a spatio-temporal limitation. That is absurd. These are metaphors for personal and impersonal aspects of Ultimate Reality which are formless and boundless. Give cartoon heaven with robes and lyres, sitting on clouds singing 'Hallelujah' forever to the Fundies).

Neither is The Way identical with the form of a long-haired, bearded Jewish mystic of the Highest caliber. Jesus Knew the 'I AM' was the Boundless Being which scriptures came to call 'The Father' probably through the corruption of the patriarchal Romans picking up from the patriarchal Jews. If Jesus was as egalitarian as the genuine Paul was in his letters (not the forged letters in Paul's name which were misogynistic propaganda by women-hating patriarchs), then Jesus probably didn't call God Father as the scriptures say, but more likely used the even more familiar Aramaic term Abwoon - Cosmic Mother-Father, or Cosmic Birther. Writers like to point out the warm familiarity of the Hebrew word 'Abba' for Father which is like 'Pappa.' But this is camouflaging the fact that Jesus and His fellow Jews spoke Aramaic for the most part with Hebrew reserved for prayer life. Gentiles who are not scholars miss important nuances as this (no blame of course).

Hey Fundies: Want to understand Jesus? First call Him Y'shua or Issa. Then forget everything about post-first century Christian theology, including Christology, virgin birth and Trinitarianism. Sink into a Jewish mind-set. No? All false doctrines will eventually dissolve in Truth no matter how long it takes. If the man Jesus were alive today, He'd be horrified at what history did with Him.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7520681 - 10/15/07 06:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

there are many passages in the old testament that talk about the prophecy of Jesus Christ. you just need to look for them. Jesus Christ is God. if you want to look deeper into it i would encourage you to read the bible more and learn about God's word.


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7520787 - 10/15/07 07:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i smell blood

don't make Markos draw his sword


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7520861 - 10/15/07 08:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's easy. I also think religion and God is evil.  I feel good about this belief and sit easy with it these days. :lol: Especially after hearing the religious debates here.




hahahhaaha!  oh man


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7520934 - 10/15/07 08:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
there are many passages in the old testament that talk about the prophecy of Jesus Christ. you just need to look for them. Jesus Christ is God. if you want to look deeper into it i would encourage you to read the bible more and learn about God's word.




Do you want to learn about God's word, or do you want him to learn God's word? From reading his posts, I'd say he's got the "about" thing down. And probably the other part too.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


Edited by jonathanseagull (10/15/07 08:45 PM)


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7521173 - 10/15/07 09:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7521182 - 10/15/07 09:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I'm familiar with them. Are you familiar with which of Paul's letters are authentic and which are forgeries? Are you familiar with the writings that were not included in the canon, or who decided that they should not be in the canon and why? Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority? You see, one can have faith based on fallible and corrupted writings, or one can have faith in direct spiritual experience and then look for corroboration in scriptural writings, including the Nag Hammadi scriptures. There is a choice, and of course the word heresy means choice, but it seems to me that belief in man-made doctrines instead of life-changing spiritual experiences is the biggest lie of all.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7521196 - 10/15/07 09:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

boy is it good to see you. you're like a breath of fresh air around here. remember, if you ever decide to start a thread proclaiming the truth i will try to be there with you every step of the way. god bless

Quote:

fivepointer said:
God hating minions of Satan have always tried to deny Christ's Diety, but what saith the scriptures?


Jesus created the universe something only God can do:

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Isa 44:24 I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Since God alone makes all things, and Jesus created the universe, then Jesus must be God.



Jesus uses the term I AM and declares His everlastingness, something only God possesses:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:3 shows Melchisedec was a type of Christ who was:
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Rev 22:13 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



Jesus is fully God in every way:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Heb 1:3 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;



Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do:

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

The scribes realized Jesus was claiming to be God and considered it blasphemy: But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?



Jesus spoke as being equal with God and one with God, the Jews understood the implications of this claim and this made them furious:

Joh 10:30-3 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



Jesus accepted worship as God which would be sin if He wasn't God:

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mt 27:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Lu 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus never rebukes anyone for worshipping Him.



The Saviour and God are one, and if the Saviour be God, Jesus is the Saviour, and Jesus is God:

Lu 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Isa 45:21 ...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.



He that honors not the Son honors not the Father:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.




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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7521199 - 10/15/07 09:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Do you want to learn about God's word, or do you want him to learn God's word?  From reading his posts, I'd say he's got the "about" thing down.  And probably the other part too.




damn straight :banghead:


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7521217 - 10/15/07 09:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority?




interesting, where can I read up on this? got book?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7521247 - 10/15/07 09:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yes, I'm familiar with them. Are you familiar with which of Paul's letters are authentic and which are forgeries? Are you familiar with the writings that were not included in the canon, or who decided that they should not be in the canon and why? Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority? You see, one can have faith based on fallible and corrupted writings, or one can have faith in direct spiritual experience and then look for corroboration in scriptural writings, including the Nag Hammadi scriptures. There is a choice, and of course the word heresy means choice, but it seems to me that belief in man-made doctrines instead of life-changing spiritual experiences is the biggest lie of all.


well first i would have to find out exactly what you mean but "spiritual experiences", but wouldnt fruits of the spirit be directly tangible with the word of God? (which if you believe in Christ you know the bible is the direct word of God given to men through the Holy Spirit) this is if you are even talking about Christianity of course.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7521434 - 10/15/07 10:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?




Sure, and I definitely respect you for saying it, because I believe that it is sincere and of good intention.  I think if you are going to ask someone to seriously consider your beliefs, you should in return consider theirs, which it seems you are doing. 

P&S is being so lovely!

:smile:


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


Edited by jonathanseagull (10/15/07 10:28 PM)


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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7521942 - 10/16/07 01:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:needdrugs::tunnel::bigjoint::mushroom2::gethigh::mushroom2::1up::regularshroom:
:nothingtoadd:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522132 - 10/16/07 05:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We all have 'gifts of the Holy Spirit.' The theological formulations, as I said elsewhere, about 'things' being given, 'by' and 'through' - all these prepositions - do not mean anything tangible. They are metaphors for attempting to describe the different order of Being that 'Christians' live in. 'Movements' in God are a specifically Christian metaphysic. The Orthodox developed the 'Divine Economia' to account for an eternal dynamism or liveliness within the Godhead, lest the psychological impact be one of a monolithic, lifeless Oneness. The theology therefore has definate psychological intentions. Besides, nobody has any 'idea' about what the essence of God is like. Infinity cannot be embraced by thought. The entire enterprise of theology is ridiculous - Paul included. All one can say is 'Mystery.' The only Knowing comes as it did for Paul - mystical ascent, like his "...caught up to the third heaven..." Gnosis.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522357 - 10/16/07 09:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
well first i would have to find out exactly what you mean but "spiritual experiences", but wouldnt fruits of the spirit be directly tangible with the word of God?




The word of G*d? :strokebeard: What is the word of G*d, and what designates it as G*d's word? :confused:

Quote:


(which if you believe in Christ you know the bible is the direct word of God given to men through the Holy Spirit)




If you believe in Christ, it automatically follows that you know this? What does it mean to "believe in Christ"?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7522361 - 10/16/07 09:09 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What does it mean to "believe in Christ"?




The ultimate goal and reward is to become a pope. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7522373 - 10/16/07 09:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

God hating minions of Satan

Man that's so cool. I just like saying it over and over. If I was into writing heavy metal I would use it in a song. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7522390 - 10/16/07 09:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:headbang:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7522681 - 10/16/07 11:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The Lord of hate, pain, despair, destruction and death might be yours, too :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7522848 - 10/16/07 12:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

SILENCE MINIONS

god is actually the space spider -



--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7522889 - 10/16/07 12:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Quote:

trent said:
ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?




Sure, and I definitely respect you for saying it, because I believe that it is sincere and of good intention.  I think if you are going to ask someone to seriously consider your beliefs, you should in return consider theirs, which it seems you are doing. 

P&S is being so lovely!

:smile:



you may disagree but it means putting up with what you take to be erroneous or false in another person's thinking but respecting the persons right to think and choose differently than you since we are all made in the image of God too.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522938 - 10/16/07 12:32 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

we are all made in the image of God too.


I wasn't. Lets just be clear about that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7523447 - 10/16/07 02:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

" We shall find that ignorance and fear created the Gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them, that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them. -Baron d'Holbach


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7523487 - 10/16/07 02:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Before everyone goes crazy on me calm down I am just suggesting something cleary for the sake of saying it. Some people believe exactly what you said in the first post, and some say that is why Jesus was crucified. Because the Jewish people thought exactly like you are now. Please don't get all crazy just stating some things that are believe by some.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7523524 - 10/16/07 02:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
God hating minions of Satan have always tried to deny Christ's Diety, but what saith the scriptures?




Quotes like this are not really necessary at all.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7523619 - 10/16/07 02:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Walter1496211 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
God hating minions of Satan have always tried to deny Christ's Diety, but what saith the scriptures?




Quotes like this are not really necessary at all.




They're not necessary? :what:
Do you have any idea how many people converted to Christianity throughout history, hearing lines similar to those, out of fear?
I say... they serve their purpose... :smirk:

On a more since note though... yes, it sucks :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7523953 - 10/16/07 03:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
God hating minions of Satan

Man that's so cool. I just like saying it over and over. If I was into writing heavy metal I would use it in a song. :hellfire:




A 'minion' is a committee of ten Jewish men. Do I hear yet another refrain from The Shroomery's most prolific bigot? More identification of Jews with Satan? Gee, even Count Chocula had to have his six-pointed pendant removed years ago for just this kind of identification.

Of course an unconscious hatefulness might simply be consciously expressed by Wiki definitions of minion:

1 : a servile dependent, follower, or underling
2 : one highly favored : idol
3 : a subordinate or petty official

But this, a hater of people accusing people of hating God. No Godly love in such a lost soul as this. :sad:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7525628 - 10/16/07 09:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

'No Godly love in such a lost soul as this. :sad:'

Grrrr...:shocked:


--------------------


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