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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7520934 - 10/15/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
there are many passages in the old testament that talk about the prophecy of Jesus Christ. you just need to look for them. Jesus Christ is God. if you want to look deeper into it i would encourage you to read the bible more and learn about God's word.




Do you want to learn about God's word, or do you want him to learn God's word? From reading his posts, I'd say he's got the "about" thing down. And probably the other part too.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Edited by jonathanseagull (10/15/07 08:45 PM)

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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7521173 - 10/15/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7521182 - 10/15/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I'm familiar with them. Are you familiar with which of Paul's letters are authentic and which are forgeries? Are you familiar with the writings that were not included in the canon, or who decided that they should not be in the canon and why? Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority? You see, one can have faith based on fallible and corrupted writings, or one can have faith in direct spiritual experience and then look for corroboration in scriptural writings, including the Nag Hammadi scriptures. There is a choice, and of course the word heresy means choice, but it seems to me that belief in man-made doctrines instead of life-changing spiritual experiences is the biggest lie of all.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7521196 - 10/15/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

boy is it good to see you. you're like a breath of fresh air around here. remember, if you ever decide to start a thread proclaiming the truth i will try to be there with you every step of the way. god bless

Quote:

fivepointer said:
God hating minions of Satan have always tried to deny Christ's Diety, but what saith the scriptures?


Jesus created the universe something only God can do:

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Isa 44:24 I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Since God alone makes all things, and Jesus created the universe, then Jesus must be God.



Jesus uses the term I AM and declares His everlastingness, something only God possesses:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:3 shows Melchisedec was a type of Christ who was:
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Rev 22:13 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



Jesus is fully God in every way:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Heb 1:3 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;



Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do:

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

The scribes realized Jesus was claiming to be God and considered it blasphemy: But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?



Jesus spoke as being equal with God and one with God, the Jews understood the implications of this claim and this made them furious:

Joh 10:30-3 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



Jesus accepted worship as God which would be sin if He wasn't God:

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mt 27:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Lu 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus never rebukes anyone for worshipping Him.



The Saviour and God are one, and if the Saviour be God, Jesus is the Saviour, and Jesus is God:

Lu 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Isa 45:21 ...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.



He that honors not the Son honors not the Father:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.



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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Registered: 02/06/07
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7521199 - 10/15/07 09:45 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Do you want to learn about God's word, or do you want him to learn God's word?  From reading his posts, I'd say he's got the "about" thing down.  And probably the other part too.




damn straight :banghead:

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7521217 - 10/15/07 09:48 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority?




interesting, where can I read up on this? got book?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7521247 - 10/15/07 09:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yes, I'm familiar with them. Are you familiar with which of Paul's letters are authentic and which are forgeries? Are you familiar with the writings that were not included in the canon, or who decided that they should not be in the canon and why? Do you understand that there are other theologies of Christ which were eliminated because they recognized a direct connection to God and did not require the intermediary priesthood or their monopoly of the 'sacraments' based on a bogus apostolic authority? You see, one can have faith based on fallible and corrupted writings, or one can have faith in direct spiritual experience and then look for corroboration in scriptural writings, including the Nag Hammadi scriptures. There is a choice, and of course the word heresy means choice, but it seems to me that belief in man-made doctrines instead of life-changing spiritual experiences is the biggest lie of all.


well first i would have to find out exactly what you mean but "spiritual experiences", but wouldnt fruits of the spirit be directly tangible with the word of God? (which if you believe in Christ you know the bible is the direct word of God given to men through the Holy Spirit) this is if you are even talking about Christianity of course.

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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7521434 - 10/15/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?




Sure, and I definitely respect you for saying it, because I believe that it is sincere and of good intention.  I think if you are going to ask someone to seriously consider your beliefs, you should in return consider theirs, which it seems you are doing. 

P&S is being so lovely!

:smile:


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Edited by jonathanseagull (10/15/07 10:28 PM)

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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7521942 - 10/16/07 01:32 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

:needdrugs::tunnel::bigjoint::mushroom2::gethigh::mushroom2::1up::regularshroom:
:nothingtoadd:


--------------------

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522132 - 10/16/07 05:55 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

We all have 'gifts of the Holy Spirit.' The theological formulations, as I said elsewhere, about 'things' being given, 'by' and 'through' - all these prepositions - do not mean anything tangible. They are metaphors for attempting to describe the different order of Being that 'Christians' live in. 'Movements' in God are a specifically Christian metaphysic. The Orthodox developed the 'Divine Economia' to account for an eternal dynamism or liveliness within the Godhead, lest the psychological impact be one of a monolithic, lifeless Oneness. The theology therefore has definate psychological intentions. Besides, nobody has any 'idea' about what the essence of God is like. Infinity cannot be embraced by thought. The entire enterprise of theology is ridiculous - Paul included. All one can say is 'Mystery.' The only Knowing comes as it did for Paul - mystical ascent, like his "...caught up to the third heaven..." Gnosis.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522357 - 10/16/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
well first i would have to find out exactly what you mean but "spiritual experiences", but wouldnt fruits of the spirit be directly tangible with the word of God?




The word of G*d? :strokebeard: What is the word of G*d, and what designates it as G*d's word? :confused:

Quote:


(which if you believe in Christ you know the bible is the direct word of God given to men through the Holy Spirit)




If you believe in Christ, it automatically follows that you know this? What does it mean to "believe in Christ"?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7522361 - 10/16/07 09:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What does it mean to "believe in Christ"?




The ultimate goal and reward is to become a pope. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: fivepointer]
    #7522373 - 10/16/07 09:16 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

God hating minions of Satan

Man that's so cool. I just like saying it over and over. If I was into writing heavy metal I would use it in a song. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7522390 - 10/16/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

:headbang:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7522681 - 10/16/07 11:14 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The Lord of hate, pain, despair, destruction and death might be yours, too :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7522848 - 10/16/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

SILENCE MINIONS

god is actually the space spider -



--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Offlinetrent
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7522889 - 10/16/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Quote:

trent said:
ill be honest. i want him to be christian. and if he's not i want him to look to be converted. is that enough?




Sure, and I definitely respect you for saying it, because I believe that it is sincere and of good intention.  I think if you are going to ask someone to seriously consider your beliefs, you should in return consider theirs, which it seems you are doing. 

P&S is being so lovely!

:smile:



you may disagree but it means putting up with what you take to be erroneous or false in another person's thinking but respecting the persons right to think and choose differently than you since we are all made in the image of God too.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: trent]
    #7522938 - 10/16/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

we are all made in the image of God too.


I wasn't. Lets just be clear about that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: Icelander]
    #7523447 - 10/16/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

" We shall find that ignorance and fear created the Gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them, that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them. -Baron d'Holbach


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Jesus Christ! [Re: thoughts]
    #7523487 - 10/16/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Before everyone goes crazy on me calm down I am just suggesting something cleary for the sake of saying it. Some people believe exactly what you said in the first post, and some say that is why Jesus was crucified. Because the Jewish people thought exactly like you are now. Please don't get all crazy just stating some things that are believe by some.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience

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