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shroower



Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 518
Loc: Europe
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Phosphate and decreasing in potency
#7518026 - 10/14/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hello you all,
I found this article,
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid=2585621&q=psilocybin%2C+phosphate&uid=791464724&setcookie=yes
Influence of phosphate on fruiting and secondary metabolisms of mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe semilanceata and Gymnopilus purpuratus . Gartz, J Zeitschrift fuer Mykologie [Z. MYKOL.]. Vol. 57, no. 1, pp. 149-154. 1991.
I can put the abstract here for you:
Fruiting of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Sing. on a horse dung/ rice-grain medium begins earlier than the formation of fruit bodies of Psilocybe semilanceata (Fr.) Kumm. from a similar solid substratum. Analysis of cultivated Psilocybe semilanceata revealed the presence of psilocybin and baeocystin which were in the same order of magnitude as the amount of the alkaloides in the naturally grown mushrooms. There was variation of the psilocybin and baeocystin levels with repeated flushes from a single culture of Psilocybe semilanceata . The psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin levels of laboratory grown fruit bodies of Gymnopilus purpuratus (Cooke & Mass.) Sing. were also in the same order of magnitude as that found in mushrooms from heaps of mixtures of pig dung and wood chips in the district Rostock. The alkaloids were absent in cultivated mushrooms of the three species which were grown on phosphate containing media. No blueing of these mushrooms could be observed.
Please, note the bold part.
I personally added phosphates from neutralized Phosphoric acid to my substrate and what I found is some mushrooms bruising blue much less than in the preceding flush (first flush was a lot blue, and now on the second it's not). BUT, after trying to ingest the same quantity of mushrooms I found the effects to be much of the same or even more intense than the last time.
What do you say about it?
Thank you.
Edited by shroower (10/14/07 11:22 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Phosphate and decreasing in potency [Re: shroower]
#7518631 - 10/15/07 08:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I say whomever wrote that article doesn't understand either substrates or fungi. All compost and/or manure based substrates will have phosphates. In addition, I haven't found one shred of evidence that potency is related to substrate, and believe me, I've tried LOTS of different substrates.
In addition, blueing is not an indication of potency. Some of the most potent mushrooms I've ever seen hardly bruised at all, and many non-active species of mushrooms bruise, such as Boletes. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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shroower



Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 518
Loc: Europe
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Re: Phosphate and decreasing in potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7519837 - 10/15/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks RR
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Phosphate and decreasing in potency [Re: shroower]
#7519994 - 10/15/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would not be so quick to dismiss Gartz, especially without actually reading the paper.
Unfortunately, I really don't think that I can get foreign journals very easily.
Nutrition vs. potency is often debated here so it might be good to do a more thorough review of the literature and sort this out once and for all.
In addition to your citation I have two more, only one of which I have on hand.
Neal, J.M. et al. "Interrelationship of Phosphate Nutrition, Nitrogen Metabolism, and Accumulation of Key Secondary Metabolites in Saprophytic Cultures of Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe cyanescens, and Panaeolus campanulatus." (Abstracted in part from a thesis submitted by John M. Neal to the Graduate School, University of Washington, Seattle, in partial fulfillment of Master of Science degree requirements.) Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences 57(10): 1661-1667 (1968).
I'll try to post the other one sometime, but I did read it and didn't find anything really all that important. It only dealt with production in submerged culture, so perhaps wasn't terribly relevant.
-FF
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