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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Some Ron Paul
    #7517440 - 10/14/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ron Paul Stings Hillary Clinton on Iraq War, Warns of Draft

Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul speaking at the Robert Taft Club in Arlington VA Thursday directed some of his firepower at his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton.

Sounding like a candidate that can win his party’s nomination, Paul said, “She voted for the war now she says she can’t get the troops out until 2013 and she won’t rule out a military first strike against Iran.”

Although his barb toward Clinton was in response to a question asked from the audience Paul’s challenge to Hillary Clinton is another sign of the candidate asserting himself in the top tier of Republican candidates.

Paul now stands fourth in the money race behind Giuliani, Romney, and Thompson. Paul’s campaign message also seems to be more in line with party principles and rank and file primary voters than the other front runners.

Paul spoke about foreign policy, the Constitution, and protecting civil liberties. He also spoke about the Federal Reserve.

They’ve “transferred illegally the power and responsibility of congress to the president. The real debate should have occurred before the war.” He said, “They’ve forgotten the constitution. They do not follow any principled, moral, or constitutional position”.

Paul talked about his warnings back in 2002 and although he didn’t support the war he had said, “If you want to go to war you should go to war properly. Declare it, win it, and get it over with”.

Paul had voted against the Iraq war while Hillary Clinton voted for it. Paul’s antiwar stance is the silver bullet that his supporters believe will cripple Hillary Clinton in a general election.

“Change foreign policy, reduce spending, give us a stronger defense.” Paul then pointed out that his “campaign gets more money from people in the military than all the other Republican campaigns put together. We need to “change our foreign policy and follow the law”. We need a peaceful foreign policy and have to respect liberty”

Ron Paul said our foreign policy encouraged nations to go nuclear, “If they threaten to get a nuke we bomb them, once they get one, we subsidize them”.

Paul warned “there’s a lot of behind the scene agitation for reviving the draft”. Ron Paul then hammered Selective Service, “Selective Service is the government saying it owns a group of people”. His harshest words, “The military draft of young people is a sign of a totalitarian government” Paul said.

“We financed each and every war through Federal Reserve financing”

Ron Paul challenged the Federal Reserves role in war, “Secretive financial scheme such as the Federal Reserve used to finance the military industrial complex.” He warned that it is costing “trillion dollars to maintain empire. Eventually empire catches up, we can not maintain empire”.

He explained why people on Wall Street don’t see a recession coming, “People in the military industrial complex and people in the medical industrial complex get the counterfeit money first”

This is causing “run away inflation and the destruction of currency”. Warning of an economic down turn, “I believe we are in early stages of a recession”

Paul said that he wouldn’t just abruptly change the Federal Reserve System. He said he’d “legalize competing currencies in gold and silver, that can be done in a very non disruptive way”.

The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 creating what some feel is a banking monopoly with the police power of the government to back it up.

“We’re taxed to blow up the bridges in Iraq, now we’re taxed to rebuild the bridges while ours are falling down”.

Speaking of what he perceives as an emerging police state, Paul said, “Greatest threat to us today is internally not externally. The domestic threat is gigantic”

Regarding the income tax he joked about people asking him, “What are you going to replace it with”? He replied “Nothing”!

Here too Paul said that he’d have compassion for people dependent on the system and wouldn’t be throwing people out in the street. He said that there’d be a gradual process of reducing government. He also said that reducing the cost of empire would free up money for domestic issues.

“We can always improve our past, we can improve ourselves. Central economic planning does not work Empty promises don’t work.” Every individual has this right to liberty.”

Sounding like a general election candidate Paul said, “Our crowds are diverse. Freedom unites. It’s not right wing or left wing it’s the humanitarian thing”.

“These ideas are reviving. People have a right to their life and their liberty”.

“The message is not delivered by the greatest orator but it is the greatest message ever”.
“It’s exciting what’s going on. The young people are so excited. I promise them nothing but freedom, our right to our life, our right to liberty.”

The crowds that attend his campaign rallies seem to indicate that the candidate’s message of peace, freedom and prosperity seems to be resonating and uniting people, not only in the Republican Party, but across the political spectrum.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7518137 - 10/15/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for posting that. It's nice to see how he is being taken more as a serious candidate with time. He deserves more articles like that one.

This one is hot off the press as of 10 minutes ago-enjoy



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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/15/07 12:03 AM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7518450 - 10/15/07 06:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm starting to think that my mocking of those who voted for him in my poll was jumping the gun.

Ironic ain't it.. that almost the entire shroomery seems to be swaying towards a "republican' :smile:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7518460 - 10/15/07 06:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Now here's the REAL question/challenge.

Democrats are known for trying to sabotage the campaigns of anyone else in a different party who might suck votes away from them (just look at John Kerry waging his war against Ralph Nader in the last election).

If Ron Paul got the republican nomination, he would SURELY suck away millions of votes from Democrats. Now.. do you guys think the Democrats are going to actually play fair (not me) with their Holier-Than-Thou attitudes (quote from Bill Clinton 'I'm a democrat because I like to think' - translation 'I'm special because I label myself a Democrat'), or do you think they'll find some way to RUIN Ron Paul's campaign so he doesn't take away the election from them next year?

My bet is on the latter if the democrats actually start to see Ron Paul's chances at getting any better.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7518465 - 10/15/07 06:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> I'm starting to think that my mocking of those who voted for him in my poll was jumping the gun.

It is going to be an interesting race... I think a lot of professional politic types are underestimating the draw that Paul has with a traditionally apathetic demographic. The big question mark is still there; will these people backup their support and actually get out and vote? If so, the race is going to become very fun to watch.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7518470 - 10/15/07 06:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If he makes it past the primaries I'm SURE people will go out and vote for him. I was going to boycott the election over having nothing but the usual turd-sandwich-vs-giant-douche election.. but if he gets the nod I'll get off my ass and vote for him

But there's the problem. WILL he get the republican nomination? I'm not sure how primaries work. Do normal citizens actually vote for who they want to represent their party? If so, Ron Paul might be screwed. If not, the campaign-strategists in the republican partry are likely to give more sway to Paul seeing as how he's probably the most capable of taking down the Democrats in the general election.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7518478 - 10/15/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> Do normal citizens actually vote for who they want to represent their party?

Yes; if you are registered to a party, then you can vote in that parties primary to decide who is going to run as the candidate for that party. I'm not 100% certain if the rules are the same everywhere or differ from state to state, but that is how it worked where I used to live.

Edit: There are also deadlines for registration to vote in the primary. A few have already passed for the states with early primaries. If you want to support Paul in the primary, you need to register to vote, and register as a Republican, and then vote in the republican primary election in your state. Time is working against you. Also, just because you register with a party does not mean that you have to vote for that party in the general election. Don't let the stigma of being a "registered republican" stop you, please.


Edited by Seuss (10/15/07 06:21 AM)


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InvisibleArp
roving mycophagist
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7518482 - 10/15/07 06:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What is the reason for having to register to a party? Why not just make your decision at the voting booth?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Arp]
    #7518485 - 10/15/07 06:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's a good question.

To be honest, I registered Libertarian just to avoid the stigma of being labeled a Democrat or a Republican. I don't really vote in primaries so I can't really think of a good reason for me to registrer with a party.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Arp]
    #7518486 - 10/15/07 06:30 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> What is the reason for having to register to a party?

Imagine if all the republicans voted in the democrat primary for the democrat candidate they thought was least likely to win. The purpose is to try and keep a fair playing field.

You can always change your party affiliation back to Libertarian; but if you want to support Paul in the primary, you have to register as a republican... and the deadlines for the change is fast approaching (and in some cases already past).


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7518489 - 10/15/07 06:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

Imagine if all the republicans voted in the democrat primary for the democrat candidate they thought was least likely to win. The purpose is to try and keep a fair playing field.




Yea... instead people like John Kerry are forced to resort to noble causes such as spending millions of dollars to keep people like Nader off of the Ballot because they're afraid of giving people choices.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7518620 - 10/15/07 08:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> What is the reason for having to register to a party?

Imagine if all the republicans voted in the democrat primary for the democrat candidate they thought was least likely to win. The purpose is to try and keep a fair playing field.

You can always change your party affiliation back to Libertarian; but if you want to support Paul in the primary, you have to register as a republican... and the deadlines for the change is fast approaching (and in some cases already past).




I understand the reasoning, and it is probably somewhat effective, but it is dumb. While the effort of changing registration will surely stop most would-be saboteurs, I think you should be able to vote for whoever you want. Registered as an independant, its stupid to be forced to drive in to town just to change registration.


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OfflineKinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7518635 - 10/15/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

He's a great candidate, and would have my vote, but unfortunately the American public is too goddamn stupid so he will never win.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7518942 - 10/15/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

why does every Ron Paul video have to have some stupid fucking song playing
in the background.

Enough with the music tracks you stupid hippies.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: johnm214]
    #7519016 - 10/15/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I understand the reasoning, and it is probably somewhat effective, but it is dumb. While the effort of changing registration will surely stop most would-be saboteurs, I think you should be able to vote for whoever you want.




So you essentially have no understanding of how a party system works? The party decides which candidate they wish to put forward as their candidate, and if you aren't registered as a member of that party, then you don't vote for who the party wishes to put forward. By all means, vote for whoever you wish to vote for in the general election.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7519028 - 10/15/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.ronpaulnation.com/register/

The above link will tell you if your state is an open or closed primary and, if you have to re-register, you may not, what the dead line is for your state. Some have already passed.

To the last poster that said, " he will not win", can you also please give me the numbers for Wednesday nights Florida lottery, since you can see into the future so well. Thanks! :cool:

They also said the same about Carter and Regan and they were wrong. There is still a lot of time for tides to shift and turn and so far.

Seuss, the rest of America may remain apathetic about going out to vote in the primaries ( gets around a 19% turn out) Paul supporters will be there. they make sure he wins every on line poll, and to the best they have been able to , get out and vote in local straw polls. he won two more this weekend. One was by a landslide, where Romney and Hunter came to speak. Paul wasn't even there. he'd win them all if you didn't have to buy tickets to vote in them.

The local news shamelessly had the headline, Romney Looses Straw poll, not Paul Wins Straw Poll.

Anyway, many Paul supporters do not want to buy the tickets which go to help the local GOP hosting the event. They'd rather spend the money on RP campaign materials or send it to him. That's the only reason why he hasn't come in first where he hasn't.

Look at what the media won't show you about his straw poll wins-

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

For example, that recent Washington GOP dinner fund raiser straw poll where he came in 4th, the dinner tickets were $1,000.


Speaking of what the media doesn't want us to know- He was winning the internet MS NBC straw poll after the last debate by 80%, when MSNBC took it down 2 hours later.

No worries about Paul supporters getting out to vote in the Primaries, where the booths are close to home and the voting is free. He will sweep them come the time if they are legitimate. Many Paul supporters and other "fair election" groups, are working hard to do all they can to prevent rigged elections. That is my only concern.  Many others are becoming delegates to help him get the nomination.

Exciting race indeed!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: johnm214]
    #7519077 - 10/15/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
its stupid to be forced to drive in to town just to change registration.




You can re-register on line. Don't even have to leave your chair. Do it now Paul supporters if your state requires you too. You can always easily switch back to what you were after your states primary.

http://www.workingassets.com/registertovote/?source=govote


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7519107 - 10/15/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

brilliant link!

thank you.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7519109 - 10/15/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> Seuss, the rest of America may remain apathetic about going out to vote in the primaries ( gets around a 19% turn out), [but] Paul supporters will be there.

I hope you are correct. I honestly think if Paul can win the primary, then he will win the entire thing regardless of who wins the other side. However, if he doesn't win the primary, then I suspect the Bush/Clinton dynasty will continue for another decacde.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7519517 - 10/15/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Two years ago... who would have thought Hilary would stand a chance?

Speaking of which... Is there ANYONE here who plans on voting for Hilary? Just out of curiosity. And don't worry, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I just REALLY want to know why (seriously)


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized

Registered: 08/17/07
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7519648 - 10/15/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for the links, explains the primaries to me better... :smile:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7519757 - 10/15/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Two years ago... who would have thought Hilary would stand a chance?

Speaking of which... Is there ANYONE here who plans on voting for Hilary? Just out of curiosity. And don't worry, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I just REALLY want to know why (seriously)




Two years ago I thought what I thought now. That Hillary will be nominated and lose. And Ron Paul has zero chance at the Republican nomination. I offer 100-1 odds. Any of you pussies wanna play?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7519839 - 10/15/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> Two years ago I thought what I thought now. That Hillary will be nominated and lose.

I hope that you are correct.  Not much scares me more than the thought of another eight years of the Clinton Dynasty.

> And Ron Paul has zero chance at the Republican nomination.

Although I wouldn't bet against you, I think the odds are a bit better than they were...  as I said in a previous post, it could get interesting.  :smile:  (Then again, I could be wrong...)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7519863 - 10/15/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

All it takes is a dollar and a dream.:grin:  I except pennies only if rolled.


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7519925 - 10/15/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Ironic ain't it.. that almost the entire shroomery seems to be swaying towards a "republican' :smile:




Not so ironic when he is the only candidate who wants to end the war on drugs.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Minstrel]
    #7519988 - 10/15/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Which, by the way, wouldn't be his decision to make as President.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7520083 - 10/15/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

By the time Bush is done hoarding as much power as he can for president.. it WILL be his decision to make. Hehe.

That's just one thing about all the executive prescident (sp?) he's setting.. he just gives THAT much more power to the next president that could very well be a democrat


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7520101 - 10/15/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Frankly, I think he is just taking back the power that rightfully belonged to the President and had been usurped by Congress in the wake of the Nixon/Carter horror.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7520116 - 10/15/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think both sides have too much power.. way more than our founding fathers thought there should be/

Shit. The president wasn't even the most powerful person in the Nation until Teddy Roosevelt came along.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: BrAiN]
    #7520129 - 10/15/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think they pretty clearly gave him numero uno powers, just not numero only powers. The Supreme Court has gotten way out of hand as well.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: afoaf]
    #7520629 - 10/15/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
why does every Ron Paul video have to have some stupid fucking song playing
in the background.

Enough with the music tracks you stupid hippies.




I will indulge you afoaf, even though this is the opposite of what Paul is about, it may be more up your alley-



It's pretty warped, but funny.

Zappa, would you also use your skill for seeing into the future and get me the numbers for Floridas Wednesday night Lotto?
Thank you. :smile:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7522465 - 10/16/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The numbers came out late Yesterday from the FEC

For anyone interested, Paul again raised more money in Q3 from
U.S. Military Personel then any other Republican candidate.


Totals:
Ron Paul $40466.72
John McCain $23058.00
Fred Thompson $16748.00
Mitt Romney $8180.00
Rudy Giuliani $6050.00

Detailed data (from Employer data, http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2007/Q3/ ):

Ron Paul

AIR FORCE 50.00
AIR FORCE RESEARCH LAB 100.00
ARMY 250.00
DEPARTMENT OF ARMY 250.00
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 3,150.00
GA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD 200.00
NASA 2,200.00
NATIONAL GUARD 500.00
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE 650.00
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS 2,240.00
UNITED STATES NAVY 2,550.00
US AIR FORCE 1,100.00
US ARMY 14,348.96
US GOVT DEPT OF ARMY 50.00
US NAVY 4,160.00
US NAVY` 500.00
USAF 4,250.00
USAF (RETIRED) 1,300.00
USAF RETIRED 100.00
USMC 500.00
USN 17.76
VIRGINIA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD 2,000.00
$40466.72

_______________
Romney:
U.S. ARMY 260.00
U.S. GOVERNMENT/D.O.D. 150.00
U.S. NAVY 750.00
U.S. NAVY VETERAN ASSN. 2,300.00
UNITED STATES ARMY 200.00
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS 300.00
US AIR FORCE 100.00
US ARMY 2,750.00
US ARMY GENERAL COUNSEL OFFICE 200.00
USAF 400.00
USAF RETIRED 250.00
USMC 500.00
NATIONAL GUARD 20.00

$8180

___________

GIULIANI

U.S. ARMY 250.00
U.S. N.R.C. 300.00
U.S. NAVY 650.00
U.S. NAVY VETERAN'S ASSOCIATION 2,300.00
U.S.M.C. 1,000.00
US DEPT OF THE ARMY 250.00
US NAVY 850.00
USAF 250.00
DC AIR NATIONAL GUARD 200.00

$6050

____________

MCCAIN

ARMY AIR FORCE EXCHANGE SERVICE (AAFES 250.00
U.S. AIR FORCE 1,420.00
U.S. ARMY 5,180.00
U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS 242.00
U.S. COAST GUARD 100.00
U.S. MARINE CORPS 200.00
U.S. MILITARY 600.00
U.S. NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER 150.00
U.S. NAVY 3,078.00
U.S. NAVY CIVIL SERVICE 200.00
U.S. MILITARY 600.00
UNK 200.00
US AIR FORCE 2,300.00
US ARMY 1,925.00
US ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS 175.00
US MARINE CORPS 1,021.00
US NAVAL ACADEMY 100.00
US NAVY 3,067.00
US GOVERNMENT - DEPT OF DEFENSE 1,000.00
USAF 500.00
USAFR 100.00
USMC 500.00
VA NATIONAL GUARD 150.00


$23058


________________


Fred Thompson

ARMY NATIONAL GUARD 1,000.00
U.S.COAST GUARD RETIRED OFFICER 23.00
DOD 1,000.00
DOD US ARMY (RET) 250.0
U.S. ARMY 925.00
U.S. ARMY TACOM 350.00
U.S. DEPT. OF DEFENSE 250.00
U.S. MARINE CORPS 250.00
U.S. MILITARY 1,000.00
U.S. NAVY 250.00
U.S. NAVY ACTIVE DUTY 500.00
U.S.A.F. 250.00
US AIR FORCE 250.00
US ARMY 1,250.00
US ARMY (RETIRED) 250.00
US NAVY 5,600.00
USAF 1,750.00
USAF (RET) 800.00
USMC 550.00
W.V. AIR NATIONAL GAURD 250.00

$16748


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7522480 - 10/16/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

17.76 from the Navy.

Heh.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7522488 - 10/16/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
17.76 from the Navy.

Heh.






Where is that figure from?

UNITED STATES NAVY 2,550.00
US NAVY 4,160.00
US NAVY` 500.00

Pauls total from the Navy Branches is $7,210.

edit-I had my question in his quote


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/16/07 10:14 AM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7522835 - 10/16/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


AIR FORCE 50.00
AIR FORCE RESEARCH LAB 100.00
ARMY 250.00
DEPARTMENT OF ARMY 250.00
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 3,150.00
GA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD 200.00
NASA 2,200.00
NATIONAL GUARD 500.00
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE 650.00
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS 2,240.00
UNITED STATES NAVY 2,550.00
US AIR FORCE 1,100.00
US ARMY 14,348.96
US GOVT DEPT OF ARMY 50.00
US NAVY 4,160.00
US NAVY` 500.00
USAF 4,250.00
USAF (RETIRED) 1,300.00
USAF RETIRED 100.00
USMC 500.00
USN 17.76
VIRGINIA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD 2,000.00
$40466.72





I dont understand that list.

Several things are listed twice.

Air Force, Marines, Navy, etc.

Hell, Air Force and Army are listed 3 times. 5 if you count "Department of the Army"

Who is putting out these lists?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7522898 - 10/16/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't get it either. There may be sub branches with variations on the name to them.

The FEC puts it out on the 15th of the month after every quarter of fund raising.

They are the official Federal Elections Commission, that candidates have to report too.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7522907 - 10/16/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So, how did he do overall? :smile:


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7522945 - 10/16/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Just to keep a small bit of reality and sanity in this debate, it should be noted that recent fund-raising efforts aside, Ron Paul is still a distant memory on the money list.
Quote:


Total Contributions, in Millions of Dollars


Clinton (D) 89.0
Obama (D) 79.4
Romney (R) 61.6
Giuliani (R) 46.7
McCain (R) 31.4
Edwards (D) 30.1
Richardson (D) 18.5
Dodd (D) 13.6
Thompson (R) 12.7
Paul (R) 8.2
Biden (D) 8.1
Brownback (R) 4.1
Tancredo (R) 3.5
Huckabee (R) 2.3
Kucinich (D) 2.1
Hunter (R) 1.9
Thompson (R) 1.1
Cox (R) 1.0
Gilmore (R) 0.4
Gravel (D) 0.2




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7523025 - 10/16/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
So, how did he do overall? :smile:




He's 4th in Cash on Hand.


The first figure is money raised for the 3rd quarter only. The second figure is any debt they have and the third figure is minus their debt-
Cash On Hand- That's what they have to spend starting out Q4 with.

Romney, though in debt, just owes himself. He has been his largest contributor. His debt could be wiped away. He is worth $300,000,000. and can loan his campaign mega bucks anytime.




Giuliani – 16,649,825.65 – 169,255.74 = 16,480,569.91

Romney – 9,216,517.36 – 17,350,000.00 = -8,133,482.64

Thompson F. – 7,121,744.26 – 678,432.01 = 6,443,312.25

Paul – 5,443,667.05 – 0 = 5,443,667.05

McCain – 3,488,627.91 – 1,730,690.84 = 1,757,937.07

Huckabee – 651,300.68 – 47,810.16 = 603,490.52

Brownback – 94,653.58 – 0 = 94,653.58

Hunter – 132,741.62 – 50,000.00 = 82,741.62

Tancredo – 110,079.37 – 295,603.04 = -185,523.67

Thompson T. – 579.86 - 221,540.01 = -220,960.15

Cox – 1,963.63 – 1,025,000.00 = -1,023,036.37


Mad Town,

Indeed, the Democrats cleaning house raising funds. I'm sure some of it is for the Universal healthcare, yet most is for the hopes they will end this war.

Ron Paul will get our troops out ASAP and is not salivating to bomb Iran.

None of the Democratic front runners could or would commit to having the troops out by 2013, when asked that question in their last debate.

The American people at large against the war will vote for a DEM and if they get in, NOTHING will change with the Iraq war and we will still bomb Iran. Hillary voted in favor of a bill recently that essential gives the go ahead to do just that.

Note that Paul and Brownback are the ONLY 2 Republicans with Zero debt. Gives you an idea of their spending habits.


edit-color correction.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/16/07 01:07 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7523427 - 10/16/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

The American people at large against the war will vote for a DEM and if they get in, NOTHING will change with the Iraq war and we will still bomb Iran.





Absolutely False.

Quote:

Obama has a plan to immediately begin withdrawing our troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year. He would call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq's leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation. He would use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact. And he would take immediate steps to confront the ongoing humanitarian disaster in Iraq.

The goal of the surge was to create space for Iraq's political leaders to reach an agreement to end Iraq's civil war. At great cost, our troops have helped reduce violence in some areas of Iraq, but even those reductions do not get us below the unsustainable levels of violence of mid-2006. Moreover, Iraq's political leaders have made no progress in resolving the political differences at the heart of their civil war.




Wether you agree with The War or not, you have to realize that immediately pulling out all the troops would be an absolute bloodbath. Even your Fairy-Tale Pie-In-The-Sky Candidate must be able to see THAT.

You need to have some sort of PLAN to get them out in a responsible manner. You Broke It, You Buy It.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7525784 - 10/16/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Which, by the way, wouldn't be his decision to make as President.




He could go a long way towards legitimizing the idea, and could decide with what fervor he wanted to enforce the laws we have now- like how the democrates claim they'll stop medical marijuana raids.

I think it would be legitimate to stop drug prosecutions of intrastate transactions. No reason for the government (feds) to be involved in this.


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: johnm214]
    #7525789 - 10/16/07 10:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Regarding the voting registration link, thanks, but my state or county (prolly county) won't allow registration online- and I have no printer- thus I'll have to drive in unless I can get someone to mail one to me (which I prolly could- but prolly not worth it).

Anyways, yeaah, I am allready registered, just as an independant.


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7525798 - 10/16/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I understand the reasoning, and it is probably somewhat effective, but it is dumb. While the effort of changing registration will surely stop most would-be saboteurs, I think you should be able to vote for whoever you want.




So you essentially have no understanding of how a party system works? The party decides which candidate they wish to put forward as their candidate, and if you aren't registered as a member of that party, then you don't vote for who the party wishes to put forward. By all means, vote for whoever you wish to vote for in the general election.




Hey man, I do understand how elections work in my state- perhpas not how the parties work nationally, but then I don't care about it.

In my state the populace votes for the party's candidates- they are not chosen by the party per se (unless they only allow one candidate). To vote, you must simply declare yourself to be a certain party, which I still say is stupid.


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7526154 - 10/16/07 11:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

The American people at large against the war will vote for a DEM and if they get in, NOTHING will change with the Iraq war and we will still bomb Iran.





Absolutely False.

Quote:

Obama has a plan to immediately begin withdrawing our troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year. He would call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq's leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation. He would use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact. And he would take immediate steps to confront the ongoing humanitarian disaster in Iraq.

The goal of the surge was to create space for Iraq's political leaders to reach an agreement to end Iraq's civil war. At great cost, our troops have helped reduce violence in some areas of Iraq, but even those reductions do not get us below the unsustainable levels of violence of mid-2006. Moreover, Iraq's political leaders have made no progress in resolving the political differences at the heart of their civil war.




Wether you agree with The War or not, you have to realize that immediately pulling out all the troops would be an absolute bloodbath. Even your Fairy-Tale Pie-In-The-Sky Candidate must be able to see THAT.

You need to have some sort of PLAN to get them out in a responsible manner. You Broke It, You Buy It.




First of all there is almost nothing different in regards to foreign policy that nearly all the candidates from both parties have with exception of Ron Paul, Kuchinich, & Gravel, and that is to try to solve the problems in the Middle East region through intervention.

Second of all. The "We broke it, we bought it" argument is irrelevant to the history of the invasion of Iraq. We the people were deceived to go to war by demagogues who wanted to make a enormous profit from it, as they have and seek to continue to by continuing to prolong and extend this intervention in that region. What you say "we bought" is actually a false product under false pretenses for false reasons, therefore we the people who own this country have the right to return that product, or in this case return our forces of all aspects from that region immediately and let the sellers of that product deal with the aftermath themselves...which they can't.

Now why can't they? The same reason why we can't; because there is a conflict there between those people that is a continuation dating back hundreds of years, and evidently they don't want anyone to interfere. So the solution appears clear to me that we the people of the United States of America shouldn't interfere or even try to "help" the conflict if they don't want us to and kill our people for trying to "help". Maybe they see the sellers, who deceived the American people, as crooks who are trying to infiltrate and control their region? Makes sense to me.

The only plan to save our economy from going bankrupt is to return the "product". Cause if we don't, the United States of America will go bankrupt and will be sold a North American Union Plan by the same sellers who sold them this war, and in the end it will mean a loss of sovereignty for the USA, and a loss of our great constitution. And I will try my best not to let that happen by at least voting for Ron Paul in my states primary...AT LEAST, for I am an American who will not be used by crooks!


--------------------
Fear    attracts  energy  that can expose one to be coerced. Learn to overcome fear and develop enlightenment.


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: johnm214]
    #7526184 - 10/17/07 12:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I understand the reasoning, and it is probably somewhat effective, but it is dumb. While the effort of changing registration will surely stop most would-be saboteurs, I think you should be able to vote for whoever you want.




So you essentially have no understanding of how a party system works? The party decides which candidate they wish to put forward as their candidate, and if you aren't registered as a member of that party, then you don't vote for who the party wishes to put forward. By all means, vote for whoever you wish to vote for in the general election.




Hey man, I do understand how elections work in my state- perhpas not how the parties work nationally, but then I don't care about it.

In my state the populace votes for the party's candidates- they are not chosen by the party per se (unless they only allow one candidate). To vote, you must simply declare yourself to be a certain party, which I still say is stupid.




The only reason why its stupid is because there is more than one party in this country when there is only supposed to be one party which every candidate from that party should at least be running to uphold and protect a constitution that is sworn by oath by ever single American citizen from public and government. The greatness of our constitution is that it is a set a rules agreed upon by every American citizen to keep us free from corruption of central authority, and we implemented a government to protect the constitution from being neglected: ONE PARTY to uphold and protect the agreement amongst the people of this free nation.


--------------------
Fear    attracts  energy  that can expose one to be coerced. Learn to overcome fear and develop enlightenment.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Mojo_Risin]
    #7526643 - 10/17/07 04:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

In an earlier post in this thread, I said:

Quote:

I think a lot of professional politic types are underestimating the draw that Paul has with a traditionally apathetic demographic. The big question mark is still there; will these people backup their support and actually get out and vote?




Thanks for making my point:

Quote:

Regarding the voting registration link, thanks, but my state or county (prolly county) won't allow registration online- and I have no printer- thus I'll have to drive in unless I can get someone to mail one to me (which I prolly could- but prolly not worth it).




:smile:


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7527361 - 10/17/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed he made your point about having concern of the apathy out there. He never even told us if he bothered to at least look at the link to see if he even needs to re-register in his state or not. He may not have too.

I was referring to the "active" supporters that are guaranteed to be there at the polls no mater what it takes. Because turn out for the primaries is typically so pathetically low, the committed active supporters have a high probability of sweeping it.

Some other cool and encouraging RP news, that is new. He just raised another One Million dollars on line for this quarter already.

he got his first KICK ASS, great interview on the FOX Business network. They were nice, asked great questions, and let him answer them. The rest in the past, were all hit jobs to varying degrees. They are coming around to Paul there.



He also took the lead yesterday in the house to create an uprising against funding the war, other then supporting the costs of re-deploying the troops back home. He's got 88 house members behind him now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20071016/cm_thenation/1243293

If anyone wants to be kept up better on his campaign, and what some active supporters are up too, you'll love this forum. Best source for RP info and action on the net.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/index.php


Mad town.

The plan you presented from Obama is nice, and old if I recall. In the democratic debates a few weeks ago, he would not commit to having all of the troops out by 2013. Said it on national TV. he's a flip flopping fence sitter IMO.

I'm tired of the " it will be a chaotic blood bath" excuse if we leave now. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, thousands of U.S. soldiers killed, tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers seriously injured, millions of families displaced and left homeless.

IT IS A CHAOTIC BLOOD BATH with us there now.

We've done enough damage to that country, our military and budget, and human lives. If the Iraqis really want their political, democratic freedom, they can rise up and take it for themselves. They've been doing jack shit for the most part during all of these years we paved the way for them, to do it for themselves.

Whats happening now is that, the citizens that were in support of our occupation are now joining the insurgents. These are people with high titles. They want us out. We are only creating MORE enemies of our state by staying there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2924469015642456119&q=ron+paul&total=333&start=20&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=5


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/17/07 12:18 PM)


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7527545 - 10/17/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Indeed he made your point about having concern of the apathy out there. He never even told us if he bothered to at least look at the link to see if he even needs to re-register in his state or not. He may not have too.




I allready said I couldn't register online, and yes I would have to reregister to vote in the primary, as I'm now registered as an independant. I have allready said I understand how my state/county works and you can't register online, and if you can't print out a form to mail in (as I don't have a printer), you'd have to drive into town, or a courthouse, to register as a republican. Calm down everybody, I'm jsut saying its a waste of time, not that I won't vote in the primary.

I live in Ohio, if you think you can find a way to reregister or change your party affiliation, for me in ohio, I'll eat my shoe.


Edited by johnm214 (10/17/07 12:27 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7527685 - 10/17/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Mad town.

The plan you presented from Obama is nice, and old if I recall. In the democratic debates a few weeks ago, he would not commit to having all of the troops out by 2013. Said it on national TV. he's a flip flopping fence sitter IMO.

I'm tired of the " it will be a chaotic blood bath" excuse if we leave now. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, thousands of U.S. soldiers killed, tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers seriously injured, millions of families displaced and left homeless.

IT IS A CHAOTIC BLOOD BATH with us there now.

We've done enough damage to that country, our military and budget, and human lives. If the Iraqis really want their political, democratic freedom, they can rise up and take it for themselves. They've been doing jack shit for the most part during all of these years we paved the way for them, to do it for themselves.

Whats happening now is that, the citizens that were in support of our occupation are now joining the insurgents. These are people with high titles. They want us out. We are only creating MORE enemies of our state by staying there.





Thats not "old".

That is from Obama's campaign website's "Issues" section. Anyone who watched the debate could tell you that Obama said he would not guarantee that every single one of the troops would be gone from there by the end of his first term. He's said that he'll keep diplomatic and humanitarian troops there past that date.

Is this unreasonable to you? Do you really want to see Iraqi kids dying in hospitals because the doctors that could save them are sitting on their ass at Rammstein in Germany? What kind of attitude is that?

And you say it is a bloodbath now. I will not argue that with you. That is absolutely correct. I am 100% against The War. I have never been pro-war, and I'm the most stringently Anti-Bush guy you will ever meet. But if you do not think that removing all the American troops immediately would not lead to mass slaughter on a scale that DWARVES anything we've seen so far, THAT is absolutely incorrect.

Yes, American soldiers are being killed now. Many times as many Iraqis are being killed. Exponentially more Iraqi civilians are being killed. Many other Iraqi's would very much like to kill their neighbor, but will not while there is a power there who will do something about it. Namely, the Americans.

The Iraqi government is not a stabilizing force. They have NO power. They are completely irrelevent in security terms. Literally the only thing currently keeping even some semblence of order there are American troops. Nobody is saying we don't need to get out of there. Every minute that we are there breeds further resentment among the Iraqi people and the World at large. But if we pull-out immediately, and the result is a GINORMOUS slaughter of Iraqis, by Iraqis, the recriminations will be much louder and the end result much worse.

You HAVE to realize this. Actions have repercussions. The current situation is a result of actions we've taken in the past. The current situation is bad, but do not think for a second that it cannot get much much worse.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7527722 - 10/17/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hmm, I might be dumber than I thought, they asked me to register previously as a particular party and I was sure th eparty was to limit you to that primary, ut the sos says you can vote as whatever:

Quote:

Do I declare my political party affiliation when I register?

No. Under Ohio law, your political party affiliation is determined by the ballot you cast in a partisan primary election.




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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: johnm214]
    #7527843 - 10/17/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> hmm, I might be dumber than I thought,

Nope, Ohio is an open primary, thus you do not have to publicly register as a party member to vote in their primary. However, you can only vote in one primary.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7527929 - 10/17/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Paul will keep political diplomats there as well-but to establish friendly trade agreements-NOT to force our beliefs onto their culture. The UN who supposedly called for this war, can take care of keeping the humanitarian groups there.

The Iraqis have had 6 years, to build up their military and police forces to take care of the insurgents. They have done shit with it. If we wait for them to step up to the plate, we'll NEVER be out of there. We are being used and abused over there.

Our occupation of the middle east is creating more insurgents by the day. They want us out of their region.

In my 39 years of life, I have learned not to throw good money after bad money. You just create more bad with it.

Think of troops. They have to follow their orders. More and more by the day are realizing that the bureaucrats used our Military to go secure Oil rights for their Western Oil company buddies and are helping their Industrial Military complex buddies to become insanely wealthy off of us as well.

This is SOOOOO Wrong and not fair to the troops.

Time to bring them home, and time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate.

Though we both agree this bloodbath at an unprecedented cost needs to end, we disagree on exactly what should be done, and on who will get it done the quickest and the best for all involved.

For those who want the quickest with drawl, and what I beleive to be the quickest way to settle down, the sand storm we created over there, Paul is the candidate. For those who want an ambiguous phased withdraw from someone who can't commit to anything with certainty, there's plenty of candidates to choose from.

If Obama is your guy, then you need to be worried about getting Hillary out of his way right now, not Ron Paul. Obama has to make it through the democratic primaries first and get the parties nomination.

Obama will NEVER be my guy. I am opposed to nanny welfare states, higher taxes, Universal health care, and any candidate who is a member of the CFR.

edit- grammer typo


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (10/17/07 02:08 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7528318 - 10/17/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Paul will keep political diplomats there




No he won't. He will (at most) be a Congressman with no clout just like he always has been.


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Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
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Posts: 579
Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7528372 - 10/17/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm down with the draft!

For one, I'm too old to be effected by it,

but more importantly I think it would breed contempt for government in a large number of people.

I think the draft was a HUGE factor in the popularity of the counterculture in the 1960's. It motivated people to be pacifists because it was their ass on the line. It created an entire class of criminals who were just regular non-violent people and discredited the government for being too fascist. The draft did wonders for the anti-war movement, without it, no one would have cared.


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: wps]
    #7528412 - 10/17/07 04:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So you are in favor of slavery for other people to advance your political agenda. I think you can figure out what kind of person you are.


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Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
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Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7528430 - 10/17/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think I can figure out you have no sense of humor.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: wps]
    #7528529 - 10/17/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I have a finely honed and open sense of humor. However, this shit has been spouted seriously by the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and there was no indication in your post that you were being the least bit facetious.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7528531 - 10/17/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Also by the last Democratic nominee for the presidency of the USA.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7528668 - 10/17/07 05:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
So you are in favor of slavery for other people to advance your political agenda. I think you can figure out what kind of person you are.




Yeah, I hear the same thing from so many people. They either like the draft to force contempt for the govt or they like the draft to force allegiance to it.

Both will be accomplished, yet niether should be forced upon someone. Just like private charity will almost certainly fill the void of tax and social program repeals (with far more satisfaction from those donating) should they occur, the military will continue to be filled by those who wish to profit or support the country.

It's wrong to force people to labor for your ends- yet its consistantly espoused under the banner of patriotism or other ends


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7528789 - 10/17/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Paul will keep political diplomats there




No he won't.  He will (at most) be a Congressman with no clout just like he always has been.




:lol:

Someone else has the skills to see into the future as well. This is what they found there.  I know you don't click on videos. This is for the amusement of others. Watch the ticker tape on the bottom. 



--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
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Posts: 2,415
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Re: Some Ron Paul [Re: Seuss]
    #7532631 - 10/18/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> What is the reason for having to register to a party?

Imagine if all the republicans voted in the democrat primary for the democrat candidate they thought was least likely to win.  The purpose is to try and keep a fair playing field.

You can always change your party affiliation back to Libertarian; but if you want to support Paul in the primary, you have to register as a republican... and the deadlines for the change is fast approaching (and in some cases already past).




it seems that might lend itself to a more moderate and better balanced president, if both sides could eliminate the uber ist from the race.  :shrug:


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Asshole


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