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OfflineWalter1496211
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Faith...
    #7516944 - 10/14/07 06:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would like to propose something... faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if you have faith you hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
I hear a lot of people asking others to prove to them things are true... Why??? Can you on the same hand prove it is not true... I think that if all things were before us then our lives would be mundane and pointless.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


Edited by Walter1496211 (10/14/07 06:23 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7516973 - 10/14/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for those wise words. I don't think I have ever heard that here before.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: Icelander]
    #7517001 - 10/14/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:wink:


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you see the world through the window of your experience


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517015 - 10/14/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:sunny:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517024 - 10/14/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wait! :lol:
How do you know they are true.
It is true that there are things which we can not see (for example atoms) but through special means they can be detected, and this way we know that they are true and that they exist.
And also there are other things... such a god, angels and the crew :lol:, which can't be seen and their existence hasn't been proven. If I told you that there are pink elephants, would you put your faith in them? Why would you or wouldn't you do it?
To which purpose does having faith serve for?
Putting our hopes and expectations is something that is imaginary can never be a healthy attitude.
When we have expectations we create a state of mind in which we become vulnerable and susceptible to suffering.
I'll give you an example that I see most often.
People putting their hopes on god. Thinking that if they pray and respect the religious dogma will get a special treatment and will be saved. And then a misfortune happens to them and instead of taking action themselves in solving it, they expect god to do it for them. Also they feel like they're being punished, that they're not good enough. This can't be the recipe to being happy. Everything turn into a blame game, where one has to be the bad character and the other the messenger of god. It's why there's so much confusion and hate.
When we drop our expectations and take life as it is we don't feel like victims anymore. We don't feel guilty anymore. We simply live, trying to make the best of our experience. We choose honesty over delusion.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7517045 - 10/14/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Faith isn't making decisions based on what others think. Rather its a reflection of one's inner being and a choice to be made. A path to follow. If you told me there were pink elephants indeed I would not put my faith in them but I would consider it.. Then after using my understanding I would decide that believing in pink elephants is of no worth to me. Faith is not something that you are given is something you give and hoping is not putting yourself in peril its taking a step forward.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517056 - 10/14/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

P.S. Notice I have not mentioned religion or God at all only a principle. You brought them into the principle. Maybe a fight to suppress something is more powerful to some than believing to begin with.


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you see the world through the window of your experience


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517067 - 10/14/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Having faith is a valid choice, especially if one understands that faith is preference and not necessarily truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: Icelander]
    #7517084 - 10/14/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My faith is my truth. It only applies to me. Truth is something that can only be had by the one who chooses to believe it.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517150 - 10/14/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Then truth is relative and we agree.:thumbup:

I think faith is a good card to play once you have taken stock of things in the most logical manner possible. I don't like to use the concept of faith to lie to myself but to choose according to my innermost desires knowing that I am just choosing what I like.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: Icelander]
    #7517160 - 10/14/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My point has been made. :thumbup: "faith is a choice to believe not always a walk in the dark"


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you see the world through the window of your experience


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OfflineKinematics
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517209 - 10/14/07 07:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The way I put it as:

If you know, you know. :wink:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7517436 - 10/14/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

>>>>I would like to propose something... faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if you have faith you hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

I agree.:thumbup: Faith is doubt.

Faith serves us well enough in the natural world. I think the mental function called faith is purely a result of living as an animal. It's a best guess, "best" being the one the animal decides has the best chance of insuring survival.

Imagine Bob is being chased by a tiger and comes to a ravine. Bob has never jumped that far before, can he make it? Perhaps not. It seems likely that he will plummet to his death. But he jumps anyway. To not jump is to insure his demise at the hands of the tiger. To jump, it's likely that he will die, but having faith allows him to try to do something he wouldn't normally do. It takes faith because there is doubt. If Bob had encountered a vine, he wouldn't have experienced faith, he would have just climbed it, with zest.

Because faith is a natural function that serves to insure survival, people have a strong tendency to experience faith without consciously questioning it. Who wants to admit doubt? To admit doubt is to admit a likely demise, either at this moment, or at the time of death.

It all comes down to us being the good animals that we are. Neurosis and false belief isn't so important, only survival is important. If the world was not kind enough for humanity to exist here, we wouldn't have the luxury of neurosis. But life is hard, and we've adapted to it in ways that leave happiness, peace, and understanding in second place. In this regard, faith is an incredibly useful function that also causes incredible amounts of pain.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith... [Re: Rahz]
    #7517461 - 10/14/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That is a fucking great post.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faith... [Re: Icelander]
    #7518878 - 10/15/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That is a fucking great post.:thumbup:



Indeed!

Without faith there would be no hope :grin:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Faith... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7521517 - 10/15/07 10:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I would like to propose something... faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if you have faith you hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
I hear a lot of people asking others to prove to them things are true... Why??? Can you on the same hand prove it is not true... I think that if all things were before us then our lives would be mundane and pointless.




Faith in God is the most perfect knowledge.Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Everything in the world is temporary, we know only in part; those things we can see and taste and touch. But those things which are spiritual, they are eternal. You can deny the Truth, but the Truth cannot deny himself.


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7522134 - 10/16/07 05:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Faith in the unknowable is a fools errand.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faith... [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7522592 - 10/16/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Knowable things, I know. I don't need faith for them.
Or do you mean something like, faith in me seeing the sun rising again tomorrow ? But even that, one can't know with 100% certainty, of course.
Maybe we should switch to a more probabilistic model.
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Faith... [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7523074 - 10/16/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Visionary Tools said:
Faith in the unknowable is a fools errand.




I don't think you really read this thread at all.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Faith... [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7523107 - 10/16/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Walter1496211 said:
I don't think you really read this thread at all.




Why, because he proposed an alternate viewpoint? :what:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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