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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training
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Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
Popcorn VS WBS
    #7514433 - 10/14/07 01:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The last couple times I used the PF tek with homemade BRF then cased with 60/40 coir verm and I got what I believed to be pretty good results. But I think it is time to move to grains or WBS.

It's next to imposable to find rye berry's in my area and I'm a little nervous about using WBS. So I'm thinking of giving popcorn a try, but WBS is still a possibility.

I would like to hear from a few people that started out with the PF tek then switched to either WBS or popcorn(But all input is welcome).
Heres a couple qustions that I would love to have answered.

Whats the difference in colonization time?
What are the pros and cons of using ether corn or WBS?
Will I get better results from using corn oppose to the PFtek?


Thanks for any and all input!!


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OfflineComfortablyStond
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514459 - 10/14/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I like popcorn, but many don't...it does take a few more days to colonize than WBS due to the size of the grains, but I've always had good results. WBS is way cheaper than popcorn tho. As far as better results than the PF tek, that's really up to you, but I think your fruits will be more potent because of the difference in nutritional value of the grains.

Peace.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks


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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
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Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: ComfortablyStond]
    #7514463 - 10/14/07 01:30 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Would you recommend the switch to popcorn?.

Any tips or pointers?


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514473 - 10/14/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Preparing WBS isn't any fun at all I would have to say go with popcorn. WBS stinks I always end up with busted seeds it sucks. IMO


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
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Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7514484 - 10/14/07 01:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What will busted seeds cause?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
WBS, no question. [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514497 - 10/14/07 01:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

WBS is certainly a better choice for a few reasons...
I'll give you three:

1.
Being that it is more than one grain, it's a mix of a few different
grains with different sizes and such, it's more forgiving. It's harder
to mess up the water content with WBS than with a single grain.
with a single grain, such as popcorn, your water content is right
or it isn't, there's little room for error. With WBS, the larger grains
such as milo can counteract a moisture content being too high for
the rest of the grains, like millet which is much smaller and can hold
less water.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5968044#Post5968044
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6505732#Post6505732

2.
Bacterial endospores can cause us problems when working with
grain. whole grains are full of them. some more than others.
well it just so happens that popcorn is amongst the worst of all
grains in this category. meaning that popcorn is more susceptible
to bacterial contamination than other grains we use, such as
WBS. additionally, popcorn is the lowest in natural triptophans
amongst all of our common grains.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6286243#6286243
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6745143#Post6745143

3.
Kernel size. Popcorn is the largest of all of our popularly used grains
in terms of surface area per grain. this is bad for a couple of reasons.
the first is because mycelium grows on the surface of the grains, not
on the insides of them during spawn colonization. popcorn will
colonize faster, but that's because there's much less surface area
to cover. this means each jar will have significantly less mycelium
per unit of weight or size versus any other grain we use. the second
reason this is bad is because spawn is actually an inoculant. the
smaller each grain of spawn is, the more grains you can fit in a
certain area. after the spawn is colonized and then broken up again,
it becomes a bunch of tiny inoculation points. the smaller the grain
size, the more inoculation points you get, the faster the substrate
colonizes. mycelium also tends to slip or fall off of the surface of the
popcorn kernel. this causes it even longer to recover and grow
once spawned.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6745164#Post6745164
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6745645#Post6745645


So basically WBS wins, no contest at all.
Popcorn is the worst possible choice for spawn.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Registered: 02/10/06
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Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514503 - 10/14/07 01:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BUDDHA_702 said:
What will busted seeds cause?




if WBS is prepared correctly, the grains will never burst.
that's just a poor technique.
WBS is in fact very, very easy to prepare, you just need to get the
hang of it.
if burst grains are your issue, then stop simmering!
WBS doesn't need to be simmered anyway.
rinse, soak, rinse, dry, load, pc.
done deal.


--------------------



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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514512 - 10/14/07 01:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I stand corrected.. Sure you don't want to give up the secret??


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training
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Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514516 - 10/14/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
Quote:

BUDDHA_702 said:
What will busted seeds cause?




if WBS is prepared correctly, the grains will never burst.
that's just a poor technique.
WBS is in fact very, very easy to prepare, you just need to get the
hang of it.
if burst grains are your issue, then stop simmering!
WBS doesn't need to be simmered anyway.
rinse, soak, rinse, dry, load, pc.
done deal.




to be clear you DON'T sinner your seed.
Is this the tech you use?
what exactly do I want to take out of the WBS, the sunflower seeds?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7514517 - 10/14/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Walter1496211 said:
I stand corrected.. Sure you don't want to give up the secret??




that would take all of the fun out of it for you.
get to experimenting!!

:psychsplit:


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514521 - 10/14/07 01:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The reason my WBS bursts is because I am impatient. I try to heat it up just a bit without simmering and its always to much if you use WBS I would recommend patience... I have become religious with rye because i like G2g but thats me.


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you see the world through the window of your experience


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514524 - 10/14/07 02:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BUDDHA_702 said:
to be clear you DON'T sinner your seed.
Is this the tech you use?
what exactly do I want to take out of the WBS, the sunflower seeds?




Correct.
I Do Not Simmer WBS... Ever. no need to.
I rinse it well when I get it in a strainer.
until the water runs clear.
I then soak it for about 24 hours in a weak coffee solution with
some gypsum added to it.
I then rinse it really well, until the water runs clear again.
I then allow it to dry... here read me.
I then load it into jars and pc it for 90 minutes.
done deal.

there is no need to remove sunflower seeds.
buy some WBS without peanuts.
I suggest Bird Basics (PetSmart) or Kaytee Supreme (PetCo).
you can remove the sunflower seeds if you want, but you
don't have to.

Quote:

Walter1496211 said:
The reason my WBS bursts is because I am impatient. I try to heat it up just a bit without simmering and its always to much if you use WBS I would recommend patience... I have become religious with rye because i like G2g but thats me.



WBS works just as well as rye for G2G.
Granted, rye is probably the best grain to use, but if you don't have
it WBS is a great choice.


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514530 - 10/14/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Like I said 24 hours soaking is a long time for some...


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you see the world through the window of your experience


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7514533 - 10/14/07 02:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Walter1496211 said:
Like I said 24 hours soaking is a long time for some...




those some may just have chosen the wrong hobby then if
24 hours is too long to wait.
planning ahead is not hard to do.

simmering is a viable option. or rather steeping....
like in Foo's tek. but it requires getting used to it, like many other
things in this hobby.

edit: FooMan's Tek


--------------------



Edited by monstermitch (10/14/07 02:09 AM)


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514544 - 10/14/07 02:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ok ok calm down.. I just happen to like the smell of rye better than WBS ok give me a break... sheesh.. You win WBS way better than popcorn . IMO not better than rye.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7514545 - 10/14/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I completely agree.
rye is the way to go.
and if you've gotten good at rye, don't look back!
keep on using it.

:mushroom2:


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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training
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Registered: 02/17/07
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514562 - 10/14/07 02:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Where should I look for Rye and what brand do you useguys use?

If I can't find rye I'll deferentially go with WBS.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514575 - 10/14/07 02:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

a local feed store.
or an organic health food store is best really.

organic rye berries is what to ask for at the health food store.
ordering 50lb bags is your best bet.
brands don't matter so much.


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: BUDDHA_702]
    #7514577 - 10/14/07 02:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly they sell it online if you are low on funds look at local stores like trader joes ect..


I took this like two seconds ago its a crappy pic but rye has advantages for sure I get most of mine from mushymart...


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InvisibleBUDDHA_702
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Registered: 02/17/07
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Re: Popcorn VS WBS [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7514617 - 10/14/07 02:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm short on cash, so I'm thinking WBS.

Thanks to all


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