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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7531355 - 10/18/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said:
Quote:
Pure ignorance IMO. Being finite you cannot know what or who is eternal.
PROVE IT.
We can comprehend the concept of eternity, but we cannot comprehend an eternal God? Contradiction.
WTF are you talking about? We can't comprehend either. Please get a few of your facts straight before replying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7531363 - 10/18/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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criticizing me for recognising human intuitive comprehension.
 My intuition tells me there is no God. Therefore there is no fucking creator. End of story according to you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7531526 - 10/18/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Matter-Energy belong the nature, 'physis,' form, creation, Samsara. The other side of the equation is metaphysical, which is to say, 'prior to physics,' Formlessness, the Unmanifest, Nirvana. The latter has been called The Ground of Being and it is not manifest. The Laws of Thermodynamics have nothing to do with the Unmanifest, only the manifest. They are laws of physics.
Eternal Life from a Nirvanic Buddhist perspective, or the Ground of Being from a Christian perspective has nothing to do with energy, with form, with motion since this is a property of form. The so-called afterlife is a concept which usually refers to some individualized state of existence, a rarified, resurrected 'body,' or a discrete entity which 'moves' from life in this world to a new and alien condition. These concepts belong to popular or folk religion, which is to say, to multitudes of human beings who do not have the capacity to grasp metaphorical and symbolic value of language to infer a transcendental and incomprehensible Reality. If the Good Book says that Heaven has streets of gold, then that language which imparts the symbols of untarnishable, royal metal and that of a pathway or Way, entirely escapes the cruder mind unable to make thought-free intuitive leaps. It is the interpretation of a Concrete-Operational mind unable to attain Formal Operational thinking (in Piagetian term). In other words, it is a childish (not childlike) state of mind.
The higher nondualist conceptions point to a monist or monotheistic metaphysic in which the temporary formation of human psychophysical form dissolves at death like clouds evaporating in the utterly transparent sky from which they formed. The Ground of Being is like the sky, our embodied ego or psychophysical form has the ability to become aware of this 'sky' in which 'we live and move and have our being.' Unlike the fish in the sea that neither knows that it is wet or that it is composed mostly of water, the human being does have the capacity to Realize that we, and all things, arise from this Ground of Being. This Ground is Eternal and insofar as one becomes aware of its omnipresence, one becomes aware of Eternal Life, NOT of immortality. Immortality suggests that a form, an individual something can exist eternally. This is simply wrong thinking, but it is the thinking behind common misconceptions of life-afetr death. The Ground Consciousness is eternal, it is not extended in space-time, it is Unmanifest. Nothing can be posited of the Unmanifest and even saying that it is eternal explains or describes no-thing at all.
Mysticism is all traditions says that individual beings can transcend their individuality (their egoistic mind) and become aware of this Ground. It is thus not a matter of 'after-life' but a matter of Eternal Life which transcends the dichotomy of embodied life and disembodied death. The Ground remains. Awareness of the Ground and identification with the Ground is what Eternal Life consists of. It is not a matter of an individual possessing immortality, individual Eternal Life.
For St. Paul to say that he only wishes to Know 'Christ crucified' is to say in effect that at the death of the individual ego occurs, only the Eternal Life remains, which is Christ/Logos/Ground. All information is lost except Knowledge of Being, which as the Hindus say is called Sat Chit Ananda (Being-Knowledge-Bliss), Being which Knows itself. We never possess this Being-Knowledge because at bottom, in our essential nature, we ARE Being. The Realization, reflected in mind is Enlightenment.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#7531562 - 10/18/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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These concepts belong to popular or folk religion, which is to say, to multitudes of human beings who do not have the capacity to grasp metaphorical and symbolic value of language to infer a transcendental and incomprehensible Reality.
So you noticed this too.
Good post by the way and my "human intuitive comprehension" tends to agree with you. But I can't prove it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
#7534522 - 10/19/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
We can comprehend the concept of eternity, but we cannot comprehend an eternal God? Contradiction.
*** are you talking about? We can't comprehend either. Please get a few of your facts straight before replying.
The fact that you recognize the concept of eternity proves that you comprehend it. You admit it by your own words. It's not necessary to perfectly know all depth and height and breadth of eternity. It's intuitive. You don't "comprehend" the own intuitive basis for your logic, and your intuitive perception of reality, but you do in fact comprehend it enough to recognize it's existence, and there is the possibility for introspection.
I think besides other things, you are very immature and rude, and I hope that deters anyone from taking heed to your nonsensical ravings.
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Icelander
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7534541 - 10/19/07 08:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just because I understand the concept eternity does not mean I can know anything about it other than I can't comprehend it. And like I said I "intuitively" know you don't have a clue what you are talking about and I intuitively know that your posting about God is fear based because life without someone telling you how to live and think and feel is intolerable.
And
Cut the personalisms. They don't belong in debate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/19/07 09:01 AM)
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
#7535036 - 10/19/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't understand this whole "personalism" thing. I can understand how it can be unwanted to be diverted into a debate on personal behaviour but sometimes personal behaviour simply needs to be addressed.
It's interesting how you can say you know intuitively I'm wrong when you say everything you know is subjective. Is this a sign of a change in your philosophy?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7535063 - 10/19/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: I have spent far too much time addressing the lack of respect for the purpose and intention of this forum. Personalisms are never acceptable in this forum. If an individual feels that they simply have to be addressed, then individuals are free to take it to private messages, or the off-topic discussion forum.
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