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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7527910 - 10/17/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

but God is ETERNAL.

Pure ignorance IMO. Being finite you cannot know what or who is eternal.

You do not use logic to validate your beliefs. I assume therefore that your beliefs are driven by fear and ignorance whether correct or incorrect.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7528240 - 10/17/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are we talking formal or informal logic?


--------------------


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7528542 - 10/17/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pure ignorance IMO. Being finite you cannot know what or who is eternal.




PROVE IT.

We can comprehend the concept of eternity, but we cannot comprehend an eternal God? Contradiction.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7528562 - 10/17/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7528602 - 10/17/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

sorry, the tone of my post wasn't clear. i forgot to add a couple of these :smirk: :smirk: :smirk:


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7528607 - 10/17/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Oh yes... :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7528726 - 10/17/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequent_calculus

Have fun kid :smirk:




It seems you've overlooked my point.

How does this apply?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7528761 - 10/17/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well this proves that you can't measure the infinite through finite means.

As for ignorance part, I can't prove you because no matter what I tell you, you'll ignore what I have to say. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7528915 - 10/17/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Well this proves that you can't measure the infinite through finite means.




Is someone trying to measure the infinite....?
You can't "measure" beauty objectively, but you know when you see something beautiful - without measuring it....

The same goes with matters of spirituality and faith, right....?  :shrug:

Is "logic" the only answer to everything....? 
A lot of life itself is abstract, ideas, or other things that cannot be proven or measured....
You can't always try to apply logic to everything and then say that it doesn't exist because it doesn't fit within "the current trends" of accepted logic itself....

:grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineLion
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7528937 - 10/17/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Logically you shouldn't have even been able to type that post because YOU'RE A CAT AHHHHHHHHHHHH! :eek:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Lion]
    #7528960 - 10/17/07 07:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I have a human interpretor....    :grin:

>meow<


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7529173 - 10/17/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Recognizing eternity is an intuitive faculty. We have a number of every day use faculties that are intuitive but no one denies them.

Recognizing another human being is an intuitive faculty.

I think that ultimately all comprehension must be ultimately intuitive, but this does not forbid introspection by any means.

( and what I just wrote proves that)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7529187 - 10/17/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Through the same intuition you're referring to in here it's been believed that the Earth was flat for a very LONG time.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7529251 - 10/17/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Is someone trying to measure the infinite....?
You can't "measure" beauty objectively, but you know when you see something beautiful - without measuring it....

The same goes with matters of spirituality and faith, right....? :shrug:





Yes exactly... beauty, as well as spirituality is subjective.
And since they are subjective, the same judgements can't be applied to everybody.
So, as long as we're talking about them in a non philosophical context, we agree. :smile:

Quote:

Is "logic" the only answer to everything....?




Technically logic is not the answer, it's a tool. :lol:\
Not the only one, but it's a darn good tool. :hehehe: 

Quote:

A lot of life itself is abstract, ideas, or other things that cannot be proven or measured....




Which is exactly why we should keep them put of philosophy and the reasoning area, and just experience and enjoy them. :mushroom2:

Quote:

You can't always try to apply logic to everything and then say that it doesn't exist because it doesn't fit within "the current trends" of accepted logic itself....




Indeed, you can;t apply logic on them because, as I stated earlier, they don't have a logic.
Incidentally (or not) :hehehe: we're engaged in a debate and that's the nature of the discussion. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Lion]
    #7529257 - 10/17/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Logically you shouldn't have even been able to type that post because YOU'RE A CAT AHHHHHHHHHHHH! :eek:




I'll have to admit too that my cat makes more than half of my posts.
So it depends on the abilities of certain cats rather than the entire species. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7529258 - 10/17/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Through the same intuition you're referring to in here it's been believed that the Earth was flat for a very LONG time.




I get so sick of the flat earth rebuttal. What's worse than some people believing in flat earth is people who don't know history who do not understand that it was never a conflict between science and religion but a conflict between Copernican science and Aristotelian science which had become Church tradition.

I never want to hear about a flat earth as any arguement against me. Not even close to everyone believed in a flat earth, and the bible has always taught the earth is round.

In any case, it was never intuition , it was just a wild guess.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7529269 - 10/17/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Indeed, you can;t apply logic on them because, as I stated earlier, they don't have a logic.
Incidentally (or not) :hehehe: we're engaged in a debate and that's the nature of the discussion. :shrug:




The basis of all of your logic is in intuitive comprehension.


edit: and in this same comprehension, is the greatest axiom we have: you are thinking. And within this axiom we find another fact that cannot be denied: those that think exist.and from this objective fact we find another fact: you exist and since you exist, and you use the same sentience to recognise the world around you, the outside world is just as real as you are. ANd by the ability to recognise our own persons, we can recognise other sentience and persons also. And all of this is from intuitive comprehension.

And if you don't like it, then don't ever think ever again. But since you cannot, please do not live in hypocricy by criticizing me for recognising human intuitive comprehension.

And that's fact.


Edited by jonathan_206 (10/17/07 10:17 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7529281 - 10/17/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

WHAT are you talking abut? :what:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7529356 - 10/17/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry for the "quote box hell" ahead.... 
If you start to get nauseous, please turn away and take a few deep breaths....    :tongue:



Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Is someone trying to measure the infinite....?
You can't "measure" beauty objectively, but you know when you see something beautiful - without measuring it....
.
The same goes with matters of spirituality and faith, right....? :shrug:




.
Yes exactly... beauty, as well as spirituality is subjective.
And since they are subjective, the same judgments can't be applied to everybody.
So, as long as we're talking about them in a non philosophical context, we agree. :smile:



.
Are you proposing that a given philosophy is not valid if it is from a subjective point of view....?




Quote:

Quote:

Is "logic" the only answer to everything....?



.
Technically logic is not the answer, it's a tool. :lol:
Not the only one, but it's a darn good tool. :hehehe: 



.
I would tend to agree with what you said....  :thumbup:
Let me re-phrase what I asked....
Is "logic" the only tool used for answering everything....? 
Would "abstract reasoning" be a tool that could ever be used usefully in any given situations as a solution....?




Quote:

Quote:

A lot of life itself is abstract, ideas, or other things that cannot be proven or measured....



.
Which is exactly why we should keep them put of philosophy and the reasoning area, and just experience and enjoy them. :mushroom2:




Did you mean "out of philosophy", or did you mean "out of philosophy and spirituality"....?    :wink:



Quote:

Quote:

You can't always try to apply logic to everything and then say that it doesn't exist because it doesn't fit within "the current trends" of accepted logic itself....



.
Indeed, you can;t apply logic on them because, as I stated earlier, they don't have a logic.
Incidentally (or not) :hehehe: we're engaged in a debate and that's the nature of the discussion. :shrug:




Yes ma'am....  I agree 100%....
"It is the hook that brings us back"...
~Blues Traveler


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7529416 - 10/17/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Sorry for the "quote box hell" ahead.... 
If you start to get nauseous, please turn away and take a few deep breaths....    :tongue:
>^;;^<




I don't know if I could EVER forgive you for this box! :evil:
:smirk:

Quote:

Are you proposing that a given philosophy is not valid if it is from a subjective point of view....?




I think that we can talk about ant subjective matter from a philosophical point of view.
On the note that it will be subject to critical thinking.

Quote:

I would tend to agree with what you said....:thumbup:
Let me re-phrase what I asked....
Is "logic" the only tool used for answering everything....?
Would "abstract reasoning" be a tool that could ever be used usefully in any given situations as a solution....?




Well reasoning is about reaching conclusions based on logical premises and something abstract doesn't have such. :shrug:

Quote:

Did you mean "out of philosophy", or did you mean "out of philosophy and spirituality"....? :wink:




Out of philosophy and spirituality, through which I understand talking about spirituality from a philosophical point of view.

Quote:

Yes ma'am.... I agree 100%....
"It is the hook that brings us back"...
~Blues Traveler




Ok, now let's get high! :lol:

:getstoned:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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