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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7524320 - 10/16/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


So an so... that one individual we're talking about to be kind, shows signs of existence. As opposed to god. That individual had a body, we see him moving, interacting with his surroundings which have as effect producing changes. He picks up a glass full of water, the glass in now in his hand, going to his mouth, we see his lips moving and the water disappearing from the glass. Now that's sign of existence.
As for judging his kindness everything is relative. The same individual can be judged by a person as being very kind and by another as being mean. And maybe by a third person as being insane. Which is the truth? The truth is that each of those persons see only aspects of that guy's personality and judge them compared to what appeals to them or not.
So allow me to point to you that through this example you only proved me right.
How can we be able to establish what "god" is or even if there is such a god, and having the attributes one might thing god has, when we fail big style on doing that with people? Who at least show indubitable signs of existence? :strokebeard:






But we humans are not the ultimate standard of Good or evil. God is the ultimate truth. We don't need anyone else to compare him to to perceive that truth. we can grasp him image, his likeness through the Spiritual perception he has given to us, through the "eyes of our heart".

Quote:


Quote:

But it makes perfect sense if you consider that God created
us in his own likeness.





If it makes perfect sense, how come that you or anybody else trying to prove that "sense" fails miserably? :strokebeard:




I havn't failed miserably, you have failed miserably to recognise and use the ability to perceive the knowledge of God that he has given you.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7524404 - 10/16/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

God is the ultimate truth.

I've been hearing you make these kinds of statements over and over. You act like they are objective rather than subjective truths. That's obviously not true, and easy to see from those of us who believe in other ideas.

That's always my objection to true believers such as yourself. You claim knowledge that any rational person can determine easily that you do not have. Yet you remain blind to this fact.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7524408 - 10/16/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

But we humans are not the ultimate standard of Good or evil. God is the ultimate truth. We don't need anyone else to compare him to to perceive that truth. we can grasp him image, his likeness through the Spiritual perception he has given to us, through the "eyes of our heart".




You haven't still proved the existence of god and I see no god.
Good and evil are human concepts so I don't know how ca anyone can expect some "divine" being to tell then "right" from "wrong".
More to that, "the eyes of truth" are merely another aspect of who we are, not something that's outside of us, such as our creator. God is an archetype not a being.

Quote:

I havn't failed miserably, you have failed miserably to recognise and use the ability to perceive the knowledge of God that he has given you.




Please keep personalisms out of this discussion. They prove nothing but your own inability to express yourself and are not the base of a philosophical debate. We are not here to discuss my personal matters but to have a civilized and if I don't ask too much, logical discussion. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
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Registered: 02/06/07
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7524420 - 10/16/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think he's listening :banghead:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: onlynow]
    #7524426 - 10/16/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Fortunately I only post to hear myself pontificate.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7524435 - 10/16/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

rofl


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7524828 - 10/16/07 06:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You haven't still proved the existence of god and I see no god.




Noone can prove God to you. You must prove God to yourself. No matter how well you know something, you can always choose to deny it. You have to accept it for yourself, I can't do it for you.

Quote:

Please keep personalisms out of this discussion. They prove nothing but your own inability to express yourself and are not the base of a philosophical debate. We are not here to discuss my personal matters but to have a civilized and if I don't ask too much, logical discussion. :smirk:




Just because you do not accept the Universal truth does not mean it is not valid or a personalism.

If you accuse me of a personalism in this aspect, then you are really
being hypocritical since it would be your personalism you state as universal to assert against my point.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7524861 - 10/16/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Noone can prove God to you. You must prove God to yourself. No matter how well you know something, you can always choose to deny it. You have to accept it for yourself, I can't do it for you.




And why exactly do I have to accept it? :smirk:

Quote:

Just because you do not accept the Universal truth does not mean it is not valid or a personalism.

If you accuse me of a personalism in this aspect, then you are really
being hypocritical since it would be your personalism you state as universal to assert against my point.




I attacked your idea, you attacked my behaviour. In a debate you can attack ideas, in fact it's encouraged because that's the purpose of a debate. Can you detect the distinction? :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7524907 - 10/16/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

And why exactly do I have to accept it? :smirk:

Cause if you don't God will make you pay big time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7524939 - 10/16/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Darn, that fat ass in always bugging me :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7524974 - 10/16/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The great thing is that if you ignore him he completely disappears.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7525101 - 10/16/07 08:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I attacked your idea, you attacked my behaviour.





Quote:

If it makes perfect sense, how come that you or anybody else trying to prove that "sense" fails miserably? :strokebeard:






Quote:

In a debate you can attack ideas, in fact it's encouraged because that's the purpose of a debate. Can you detect the distinction? :sherlock:




The idea I am attacking in this case would be the idea that I fail miserably at proving my point. There's no way to avoid attacking you in this instance, your failure to recognise and use the ability to perceive the knowledge of God that he has given you is a direct hindrence to the correct conclusion.

Quote:

And why exactly do I have to accept it? :smirk:




Because it's the truth. The Truth is the Truth is the Truth.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7525178 - 10/16/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

your failure to recognise and use the ability to perceive the knowledge of God that he has given you is a direct hindrence to the correct conclusion.

:rofl2::crazy2:

Because it's the truth. The Truth is the Truth is the Truth.

:rofl2::monkeydance:

Wow! this is the biggest bunch of non-sense I've seen here today. You win dude.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7525197 - 10/16/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I knew you were holding his side from the start :mad:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Icelander]
    #7525242 - 10/16/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I've been hearing you make these kinds of statements over and over. You act like they are objective rather than subjective truths. That's obviously not true, and easy to see from those of us who believe in other ideas.




How does believing in other ideas make them valid? It's not merely believing, it's believing with evidence.

edit: It is objective Truth, and if you even recognized the basis of your own logic, you would realize that nothing can be truly asserted without an objective Truth. And nothing can be relative without an objective Truth. All relativity, is relative to an objective truth. But you say you know of no objective truth.

You do not truly know anything objective because your knowledge has a limit in this natural world, it is inconclusive, but God is ETERNAL. This is a point you continually fail to grasp.

Quote:

That's always my objection to true believers such as yourself. You claim knowledge that any rational person can determine easily that you do not have. Yet you remain blind to this fact.




I don't need to know the inside of every man's heart to know the Truth. I only need to know the Truth and go from there. I have determined the Truth, and the Truth says, everyone has the ability to perceive God's Spiritual nature.


Edited by jonathan_206 (10/16/07 08:28 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7525282 - 10/16/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Icelander is famous for his grasplessness. :yesnod:


--------------------


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7525316 - 10/16/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

more copy and paste conceptual masturbation :urinate:

we definitely have a winner :sun:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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OfflineNipples
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7526648 - 10/17/07 04:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No scientific law is an absolute truth, each has its specific area in which it is applicable, each has its limitations. A scientific law is an expression of a pattern which the world exhibits when viewed in a particular way.

If you view the world in terms of thermodynamics, you see it behave, more or less, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

If you view the world in terms of its constituent sub-atomic "particles", then you see it behave, more or less, according to the laws of quantum mechanics.

Laws of thermodynamics may be very reliable, within their scope of application, but you can never use them to prove whether or not quantum mechanics is "true" or not.

"It is impossible, absolutely impossible to explain it in any classical way",
- Richard Feynman talking about quantum mechanics.


... nor can you, IMHO, use laws of thermodynamics to prove whether theories of an afterlife are true or not.

(And anyway, as long as physicists don't how to detect, measure and quantify consciousness it makes no rational sense to apply physical laws to it ... it may make an interesting discussion, but it proves nothing.)


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: Nipples]
    #7526654 - 10/17/07 04:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know what you mean, thermodynamics is already used in quantum mechanics, and is well established in quantum. My evidence to suggest to me that quantum is real, hey you can try this yourself even at home. Boot your computer up. Does it work? Hey you've experimentally proved that aspects of quantum are real, damn you're smart.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Law of Conservation of Energy and The Afterlife [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7526749 - 10/17/07 06:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"It is impossible, absolutely impossible to explain it in any classical way",- Richard Feynman talking about quantum mechanics.




Congrats on misquoting out of context in order to mislead your audience into thinking Feynman is backing up your claims. Good job!

Speaking about the double-slit experiment:
Quote:

We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery."




R. P. Feynman, R. B. Leighton, and M. Sands, The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume I, Addison-Wesley, New York (1963), page 37.


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