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OfflineShastro
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Registered: 08/23/07
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Last seen: 14 years, 29 days
g2g vs lc, what should i spawn to?
    #7512567 - 10/13/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

which would colonize the fastest, a g2g or lc. Also for the lc pros, can you over pressure malt. I was asking because at first mine was cear, and after pcing it had a yellow tent to it. Thanks all


Edited by Shastro (10/13/07 07:17 PM)


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: Shastro]
    #7512758 - 10/13/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

my g2g pint jars colonize in 6 or 7 days. i used one colonized jar to inoculate 15 other jars. i never use LC because it just seems like too much of a pain. hope that helps some.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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OfflineShastro
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: automan]
    #7512780 - 10/13/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

cool thats what im doin


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OfflineWronguy

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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: automan]
    #7512801 - 10/13/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Colonization speed will really depend on the size of jar you transfered to. A quart jar may take 7-10 days, but liquid cultures can take 10-14 days on average with the same size.

Depending on your availability to use things like spawn bags and bulk substrates, I think you'll find liquid cultures far superior to grain-to-grain transfers. For one you can knock up some 10-20 bags with a single, 600ml quart jar of LC. Try doing that with a single jar of grains; not going to happen. Personally I think G2G is old school, but it certainly has its place in cultivation.

To answer your question on the LC color, malt extract will darken after it reaches high temperatures, but there is no cause for alarm. There are a lot of advantages to using an LC over G2G, but I'm too lazy right now to list them all. :wink:

Hope that helps.


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: Wronguy]
    #7512812 - 10/13/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

saying you can noc up 10-20 bags with a single 600ml jar of LC is meaningless unless you give the volume of the bags of substrate.

i go for speed when i grow. you can turn 6 pint jars into 6 cases of jars in 7 days, then each of those pint jars will colonize a gallon of compost/vermiculite in 7 days. i'd like to see LC go from a small amount to 72 colonized gallon of compost in 14 days.

that is why g2g is superior to LC, imo. also, if one jars goes bad, you dont lose the entire batch, you just throw out that jar and use the rest.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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OfflineD4NK
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: automan]
    #7512939 - 10/13/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

As long as you have room for all the jars! :wink:

:thumbup:


--------------------
  Moderation is key 

  "There is no god higher than truth." 



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OfflineShastro
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: automan]
    #7513074 - 10/13/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
saying you can noc up 10-20 bags with a single 600ml jar of LC is meaningless unless you give the volume of the bags of substrate.

i go for speed when i grow. you can turn 6 pint jars into 6 cases of jars in 7 days, then each of those pint jars will colonize a gallon of compost/vermiculite in 7 days. i'd like to see LC go from a small amount to 72 colonized gallon of compost in 14 days.

that is why g2g is superior to LC, imo. also, if one jars goes bad, you dont lose the entire batch, you just throw out that jar and use the rest.




so i can have a 50 gallon tote colonized in 14 days, awesome. cause from experience i know pf jars take about that. what kind of compost is recommended. where can i order it this time of year?


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OfflineShastro
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Re: [Re: Shastro]
    #7513648 - 10/13/07 09:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i reposted new topic in old post, cause i know how alot of threads can get. so what to spawn to and where to order or get from. I am doing a woodchip horse shit project right now. id like some compost. anone got ideas.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: automan]
    #7513892 - 10/13/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
saying you can noc up 10-20 bags with a single 600ml jar of LC is meaningless unless you give the volume of the bags of substrate.

i go for speed when i grow. you can turn 6 pint jars into 6 cases of jars in 7 days, then each of those pint jars will colonize a gallon of compost/vermiculite in 7 days. i'd like to see LC go from a small amount to 72 colonized gallon of compost in 14 days.

that is why g2g is superior to LC, imo. also, if one jars goes bad, you dont lose the entire batch, you just throw out that jar and use the rest.




I can easily inoculate 20, 5 pound signature substrate bags with
one 600ml jar of LC.
I can colonize that jar of LC in about 3 days if I started it from
other LC, or in 7-10 days if I started it from spores or agar transfer.

one cc of spores can make infinite liquid culture.

and if you're talking speed, well I skip the whole grain process
all together, dramatically increasing the overall turn around time.

I inoculate the final bulk substrate (grain, manure, etc.) directly
with LC. That 5lb bag of substrate will fully colonize in less than
two weeks on a consistent basis.

So from spores to fully colonized bulk substrate bags in 3 weeks
on average. No need to mess with spawning, grain and all of that
transferring.

so I can easily colonize as many substrate bags as I want in 14
days with liquid culture. and it's not like liquid culture is hard to make.


--------------------



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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514789 - 10/14/07 05:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know that I'll ever fully understand the significance of measuring substrates and such by weight.  I don't even know how much my seven quart bags of compost/coir mix in my garage weigh right now.  I can tell you how much, by volume, is in them right down to the gypsum but I have no clue as to what anything weighs.

As for the whole topic at hand, it's turning into a kind of "religious war" debate on each side of the camp, but I'll try to chime in...


Liquid Cultures:
Major Pro - They occupy a smaller physical footprint and has a much higher inoculant yield by volume.  Or in other words, a little goes a REAL+ LONG WAY with this stuff.  Also, they make for a good short-term / quasi long-term storage when gently refrigerated.

Major Con - Because of it's nature, it's impossible to distinguish fungal contaminates because they'll look identical until you grow them out on a grain or such.

Grain To Grain:
Major Pro - You have the ability to test and see the vitality and viability of a strain grow out in a grain master before it is transferred to the next batch of grain jars.  This means you know, without a doubt, if your grain master is contaminated beforehand.

Major Con - Comparatively speaking, grain jars are far more bulky and because you can only get a 10::1 new jar to grain master ratio on inoculant, this means you may need several grain masters to perform a grain to grain transfer.

-------
What I've like, however, is somewhat of a "meet in the middle" hack in which I take a fully colonized rye jar and after shaking it, add 100ml of sterilized water and shake it up and pour it back out into a sterile container.  That's a 100ml liquid culture that can then be used to inoculate anywhere between 10-50 new jars and I can still spawn the donor grains without losing them either.  Think of it as a "grain-to-lc" if you will... :shrug:


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineD4NK
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: mycocurious]
    #7515219 - 10/14/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
What I've like, however, is somewhat of a "meet in the middle" hack in which I take a fully colonized rye jar and after shaking it, add 100ml of sterilized water and shake it up and pour it back out into a sterile container.  That's a 100ml liquid culture that can then be used to inoculate anywhere between 10-50 new jars and I can still spawn the donor grains without losing them either.  Think of it as a "grain-to-lc" if you will... :shrug:




Pretty sweet, I'll have to give that a shot sometime. 

On a semi-related note, is deionized water in an unopened bottle generally considered sterile?

:thumbup:


--------------------
  Moderation is key 

  "There is no god higher than truth." 



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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: g2g vs lc [Re: D4NK]
    #7515283 - 10/14/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

you shouldnt consider anything sterile until you sterilize it.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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