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OfflineCacophony
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fruiting with bags
    #7511212 - 10/11/07 11:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey guys,
I've been curious about mush bags, and have recently decided to try my luck with a few 2lb grain bags. If I fruit directly in these bags will I get relatively equal results as compared to casing and putting in a terrarium? I would also like to know if my grow would be better suited with horse poo substrate bags instead.
any suggestions (aside from buy a pressure cooker and jars) will be greatly appreciated. Ive been on these forums reading for years, however ambiguity and uncertainty are taking a toll on me right now - I have a short window to test this knowledge out, and would like nothing more than to see some of this work!
great thanks,
C


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OfflineWalter1496211
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7511249 - 10/11/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"search" bags...


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Walter1496211] * 1
    #7511336 - 10/11/07 11:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Im new to posting, however I made it evident that I have come to the shroomery for years. I have seen enough "go search it" responses to save people the hassle, and search before i post.

look up "myco bags", "mushroom bags", "grain bags"... and tell me what you find? I could not find any answers that i needed. For example - a picture of full mushrooms within a closed bag, growing beautifully, then another post sometime after calling to cut the bags top off to grow...see what Im saying? clarification is golden and i am happily only human, sometimes ya cant weed through the ambiguity. did my best.


Edited by Cacophony (10/12/07 12:21 AM)


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7511432 - 10/12/07 12:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)











The only thing is that these aren't from 2lb grain bags.

Myco Bags
Grain Bags
Mushroom Bags

There, now these pictures will appear in your search.

:grin:


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7511712 - 10/13/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hah thanks monstermitch! clears up whether or not to cut the bags :crazy2:

what do you guys think though, would I benefit from casing with a layer of vermiculite, or will a few flushes do fine with a bag-dunk (just dumping in a glass or two of cold water into the bags after a flush)?
thanks,
c


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7512150 - 10/13/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Uncased grains are poor fruiters. You need to spawn them to manure, or at least put a casing layer over the grain after it fully colonizes. The bag can be your fruiting environment, but cut some slits or holes in it for air exchange.
RR


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7512161 - 10/13/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the pictures shown are from manure based bags.
not from grain bags.

manure based bags designed to be directly inoculated,
not spawned to.

the top pictures are from a 2 pound bag,
the bottom ones from a 4 pound bag.

ALL fruiting was done in the SEALED bags, with no casing,
no cut slits, just a normal filter patch bag.







these are all the top bag from the above post before it was
harvested for the first time.
after the harvest, just dunk, put back in the bag, fold over and
clip the top, and let it flush again.
simple as pie.



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Offlineacommunistspy
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
    #7513261 - 10/13/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by acommunistspy

Reason for deletion: this never happened



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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7513268 - 10/13/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes, lack of water is the problem.
no, misting will not solve this problem, only the addition of either
casing or bulk substrate material will truly help.

most bags sold out there are grain, the bags shown in my pictures
are rare and unique.
They're signature substrate bags.

and no, grain bags do not fruit well in-vitro. Any bags you see
fruiting well in-vitro are most likely not grain bags, they're most
likely substrate bags.


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Offlineacommunistspy
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
    #7513395 - 10/13/07 08:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7513409 - 10/13/07 08:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

in the case you're in, I would do as RR suggested personally.
at full colonization of the rye, I would open the bag.
I would add a casing layer to the top of it, and block the light
from the bottom and sides.
I would seal the top of the bag back up a bit by folding it over
and holding it closed with a couple of paper clips.
I would make a few small slits in the bag.

that would probably be your best chance for success.


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7513458 - 10/13/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for the responses guys! Do you feel that I would get a better yield with five grain bags 3lbs each (not spawned to just directly inoculated) with a casing of vermiculite/sides blocked from light. OR two horse manure substrate bags 5lbs each???

thanks,
c


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7513488 - 10/13/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no question in my book:
the manure bags.

depends on what's in the bags heavily though.

especially if you're doing in-vitro.


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Offlinephillyblunts
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7513788 - 10/13/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am currently doing invitro poo bags myself, just wondering what temp you fruited those at monstermitch? Also, how much did you put in each bag weight wise?


--------------------
-Jake


Edited by phillyblunts (10/13/07 10:02 PM)


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: phillyblunts]
    #7513853 - 10/13/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

normal room temps for both colonization and fruiting.
normal room lighting for both colonization and fruiting.

each bag has about 4.5 pounds in it.





I have pictures of probably over 100 bags that came out just
like this.

these are nothing fancy. just multispore EQ and PE.


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Offlineacommunistspy
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
    #7514071 - 10/13/07 11:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by acommunistspy

Reason for deletion: this never happened



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OfflineUnknownMycophile
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7514111 - 10/13/07 11:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How many cc's of spores are you shooting your bags up with?


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Offlineheadieherbs
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7514122 - 10/13/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

acommunistspy said:
hmm so you can just inoculate pure poo/straw bags with nothing else in them? i always thought that you had to spawn them with some sort of grain.




you thought right. you need to use colonized grains to spawn. you can't inoculate poo or a poo grain mixture.

edit: actually you might be able to get away with a PF style jar with abit of poo mixed in, but poo is supposed to be pasteurized not sterilized.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: headieherbs]
    #7514354 - 10/14/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

headieherbs said:
you thought right. you need to use colonized grains to spawn. you can't inoculate poo or a poo grain mixture.

edit: actually you might be able to get away with a PF style jar with abit of poo mixed in, but poo is supposed to be pasteurized not sterilized.




no, you're wrong. you do NOT need spawn to inoculate my
signature substrate bags. in fact, using spawn could ruin them.
my signature substrate bags are manure, grain and other secret
ingredients that make it more than possible.

and you're also wrong that poo is to be pasteurized, not sterilized. it depends 100% on the application.

every single fruit on this table and in my hand was grown from
inoculating signature substrate bags with Liquid Culture.
30cc's of LC into each bag.




your information is old and outdated.
I'm starting a revolution here, you just haven't realized it yet.


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Offlinephillyblunts
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7515202 - 10/14/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yea but liquid culture isn't the same as a spore solution


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: phillyblunts]
    #7515319 - 10/14/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

exactly, that's why it works so well.

the bags will work with spore solution, they absolutely will.
but it'll take much longer, and spores are expensive.


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Offlineboomer q
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7515532 - 10/14/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

whats in your signature substrate bags? i see that theyre poo based, but what else? ive tried to shoot up straight poo with an lc before and got 0 results, why are yours such killers?


btw, how much dry weight is on that table?


--------------------
I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons


Edited by boomer q (10/14/07 11:59 AM)


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: boomer q]
    #7515537 - 10/14/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if I told you, I'd have to kill you...

sorry, you know how it is.

:butcher:


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OfflineMakaveli_Clean
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7515556 - 10/14/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

monstermich...

how would one go about purchasing your poo bags?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Makaveli_Clean]
    #7515586 - 10/14/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

seeing how they're not sold by any sponsors here...
I can't talk about it. sorry.


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7515604 - 10/14/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

will bags with:

# horse manure that has been aged, dried and shredded
# millet and milo
# vermiculite
# earthworm castings
# coco coir
# garden gypsum
# and a few extra ingredients

suffice for direct inoculation??

thanks,
c


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7515625 - 10/14/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

sounds like the cheap immitation that will get you about 1/4
the results.

it's like driving a kia vs driving a bmw.

do you want to pay 75% of the price for 25-50% of the results?
doesn't sound like a deal to me.

it may work, but not nearly as well.
you'll never get results like mine with that setup.


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7515679 - 10/14/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Id like the best results I can get - this is my one window opportunity to grow. If you could, monstermitch, let me know of a better product out there, if it isnt sponsored, please pm me. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks,
c


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Offlineacommunistspy
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: Cacophony]
    #7515872 - 10/14/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by acommunistspy

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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7515882 - 10/14/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

acommunistspy said:
i know your manure-based bag works with direct inoculation but say if i had a pasteurized bag of poo/straw, would direct inoculation still work?




no.

well, I suppose it could.
but you'll be quite hard-pressed to find anyone with success trying.

those are the bags that need to be spawned to generally.
which is an extra step, a time consuming one. with results that
aren't as good either.


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OfflineFunkatron9000
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7516272 - 10/14/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

VERY nice monster! :dancingshroom: so those are all bag grown?
How many bags did it take to get that table full?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Funkatron9000]
    #7516311 - 10/14/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

less than you might imagine.


:penis:


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Offlineacommunistspy
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
    #7516405 - 10/14/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by acommunistspy

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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7516444 - 10/14/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes.

and yes.


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Invisiblemushylove
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: phillyblunts]
    #7517468 - 10/14/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

--


Edited by mushylove (10/14/07 09:03 PM)


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OfflineCacophony
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: mushylove]
    #7517700 - 10/14/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

aside from PE, what strains do you guys think would do well in bags? (as the shroomery sponsor I have opted to buy from is currently out).


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7517715 - 10/14/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

buy from sporeworks!!

you will not be dissapointed, promise.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7517777 - 10/14/07 10:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I love this thread!


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Offlinephyslent killer
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #7681571 - 11/26/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

monstermitch, where do you store your bags while they colonize and fruit. Why is nothing else required than what you say:

normal room temps for both colonization and fruiting.
normal room lighting for both colonization and fruiting.

Why no incubating or temperature changes?


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Invisibleorchidfanatic
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: physlent killer]
    #7681737 - 11/26/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have one of your bags MM that is pinning .. cant wait to see how it goes .

I left them at normal room temp to colonize and now its fruiting after I put it in some bright indirect sunlight. easy as pie . it just takes longer than other methods but you dont have to do anything to them .
no FAE no martha no humidifier .. nothing ! simple as simple can be


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OfflineBreakfastClub
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7682389 - 11/26/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was under the assumption they still needed fresh air moving around them....


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: BreakfastClub]
    #7682443 - 11/26/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Damn, it sure is a kicker having the substrate recipe witheld from you for the sake of profit.  This is the first time I've come across secrecy in the name of profit on a board like this where the idea is to share knowledge.  Oh well..:freakybirdthing:


Edited by VisionsToReality (11/26/07 04:31 PM)


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: BreakfastClub]
    #7682474 - 11/26/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BreakfastClub said:
I was under the assumption they still needed fresh air moving around them....



Yeah, this is the paradox

Everyone raves about FAE, yet then we have these things growing in bags with only filter patches...

I think some people manually deflate/inflate their bags for FAE, every day?

Or do you guys achieve this without manual FAE - just a filter patch?

That'd be nice if someone could clarify the FAE in a bag thing.


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7682780 - 11/26/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I tried to squeeze air out but it didnt go .. some patches are much finer than others. I could get no air out of it
I made some bags that were basically a mixture of
coir coffe hpoo diatomatious earth . gypsom calcium carbonate
you can use kelp fert . even some verm to help hold water..
one bag made 276 grams wet another just made a couple of really big shrooms .. I am trying the MM bags so we will see how they compare to my homemade bags ..


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7682787 - 11/26/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

And what'd you do, sterilize the bag of your mix, seal, and inoculate? Pretty much that simple?


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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7682804 - 11/26/07 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

actually with my bags I spawned to them and none contamed .. I did it in a still air box .. it was 1 qt rye spawn to 2 qts substrate.. I would think that .5 to 2qts would be better since they hold water longer I think they are drying out .. one fruited nice one was only a couple of fruits but large and the last one is still no pins just sitting there..
the substrate was pasteurized not sterilized but you could sterilize and use LC to knock them up with MM bags I used 30CC of LC one colonized really fast the other took a long time but is now colonzied . one is pinning


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OfflineBreakfastClub
Don't you,forget about me

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 134
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
    #7685769 - 11/27/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I use USPS boxes to measure / incubate / fruit...

I fill my bags in the box till it is even with the box.... Works great

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13354&productId=11697&langId=-1

this box and it is free :smile:


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Invisibleshroomerite
Apprentice


Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 513
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: BreakfastClub]
    #10152199 - 04/12/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just wanted to bring this post up for the noobs. Its a great read.


--------------------
  "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR



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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: shroomerite]
    #10206208 - 04/21/09 10:08 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

the type of cube you use is very, very important with these.
usually I would just say stick to PE, for it is the only one with consistant
results across the board.  PE does not need the FAE others do.
It's a crazy mutant that doesn't mind the bags at all.

and yes, it is very simple.

make substrate and load into bags.
pressure cook bags.
seal bags.
add some sort of inocuation port to them if the bags aren't the
fancy ones that come with them already built in.
inoculate with 30-60cc of LC.
mix up the substrate.
place into container and set on a shelf.
in a little over a month, open the bag for a killer harvest.
spray a little water in there, close the bag up with a couple paper clips.
set back on shelf.
in another week or so... harvest again.

yeah, it's that simple.


--------------------



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Offlineburma
Searcher of Truth
Male

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 17
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #10206220 - 04/21/09 10:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

how big are those bags? and wat strain


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Offlinesteinringer
Blue Team


Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 26
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: monstermitch]
    #11715733 - 12/25/09 05:38 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What temp. are you talking about here? 75 degrees?


--------------------
None of what I say,write, or suggest should be taken seriously.


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Offlinerizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 875
Loc: North-east USm'f'nA
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
Re: fruiting with bags [Re: steinringer]
    #11715783 - 12/25/09 06:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Ya, be selective on what you choose to do in bags...some strains suck in bags and perform poorly....you can squeeze the air out of the bags and re-fluff em for a lil air exchange if needed...I prefer putting em in a FC and growing em out that way...but to each his own...


--------------------
aka NHMI


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