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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 43
Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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fruiting with bags
#7511212 - 10/11/07 11:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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hey guys, I've been curious about mush bags, and have recently decided to try my luck with a few 2lb grain bags. If I fruit directly in these bags will I get relatively equal results as compared to casing and putting in a terrarium? I would also like to know if my grow would be better suited with horse poo substrate bags instead. any suggestions (aside from buy a pressure cooker and jars) will be greatly appreciated. Ive been on these forums reading for years, however ambiguity and uncertainty are taking a toll on me right now - I have a short window to test this knowledge out, and would like nothing more than to see some of this work! great thanks, C
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7511249 - 10/11/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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"search" bags...
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 43
Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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Im new to posting, however I made it evident that I have come to the shroomery for years. I have seen enough "go search it" responses to save people the hassle, and search before i post.
look up "myco bags", "mushroom bags", "grain bags"... and tell me what you find? I could not find any answers that i needed. For example - a picture of full mushrooms within a closed bag, growing beautifully, then another post sometime after calling to cut the bags top off to grow...see what Im saying? clarification is golden and i am happily only human, sometimes ya cant weed through the ambiguity. did my best.
Edited by Cacophony (10/12/07 12:21 AM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7511432 - 10/12/07 12:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The only thing is that these aren't from 2lb grain bags.
Myco Bags Grain Bags Mushroom Bags
There, now these pictures will appear in your search.
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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hah thanks monstermitch! clears up whether or not to cut the bags 
what do you guys think though, would I benefit from casing with a layer of vermiculite, or will a few flushes do fine with a bag-dunk (just dumping in a glass or two of cold water into the bags after a flush)? thanks, c
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7512150 - 10/13/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Uncased grains are poor fruiters. You need to spawn them to manure, or at least put a casing layer over the grain after it fully colonizes. The bag can be your fruiting environment, but cut some slits or holes in it for air exchange. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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the pictures shown are from manure based bags. not from grain bags.
manure based bags designed to be directly inoculated, not spawned to.
the top pictures are from a 2 pound bag, the bottom ones from a 4 pound bag.
ALL fruiting was done in the SEALED bags, with no casing, no cut slits, just a normal filter patch bag.





these are all the top bag from the above post before it was harvested for the first time. after the harvest, just dunk, put back in the bag, fold over and clip the top, and let it flush again. simple as pie.
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acommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi



Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7513261 - 10/13/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by acommunistspyReason for deletion: this never happened
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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yes, lack of water is the problem. no, misting will not solve this problem, only the addition of either casing or bulk substrate material will truly help.
most bags sold out there are grain, the bags shown in my pictures are rare and unique. They're signature substrate bags.
and no, grain bags do not fruit well in-vitro. Any bags you see fruiting well in-vitro are most likely not grain bags, they're most likely substrate bags.
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acommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi



Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7513395 - 10/13/07 08:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by acommunistspyReason for deletion: this never happened
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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in the case you're in, I would do as RR suggested personally. at full colonization of the rye, I would open the bag. I would add a casing layer to the top of it, and block the light from the bottom and sides. I would seal the top of the bag back up a bit by folding it over and holding it closed with a couple of paper clips. I would make a few small slits in the bag.
that would probably be your best chance for success.
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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thanks for the responses guys! Do you feel that I would get a better yield with five grain bags 3lbs each (not spawned to just directly inoculated) with a casing of vermiculite/sides blocked from light. OR two horse manure substrate bags 5lbs each???
thanks, c
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7513488 - 10/13/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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no question in my book: the manure bags.
depends on what's in the bags heavily though.
especially if you're doing in-vitro.
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phillyblunts
Stranger


Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 18
Loc: PA
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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I am currently doing invitro poo bags myself, just wondering what temp you fruited those at monstermitch? Also, how much did you put in each bag weight wise?
-------------------- -Jake
Edited by phillyblunts (10/13/07 10:02 PM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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normal room temps for both colonization and fruiting. normal room lighting for both colonization and fruiting.
each bag has about 4.5 pounds in it.


I have pictures of probably over 100 bags that came out just like this.
these are nothing fancy. just multispore EQ and PE.
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acommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi



Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7514071 - 10/13/07 11:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by acommunistspyReason for deletion: this never happened
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UnknownMycophile
Cyber Criminal



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 78
Loc: U.S.A
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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How many cc's of spores are you shooting your bags up with?
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headieherbs
originalgangster (oflove)



Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 523
Loc: around the bend
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Quote:
acommunistspy said: hmm so you can just inoculate pure poo/straw bags with nothing else in them? i always thought that you had to spawn them with some sort of grain.
you thought right. you need to use colonized grains to spawn. you can't inoculate poo or a poo grain mixture.
edit: actually you might be able to get away with a PF style jar with abit of poo mixed in, but poo is supposed to be pasteurized not sterilized.
-------------------- please don't take away my highway shoes.. Write In Your Vote.com - US Politics. For the People, by the People. Everything posted by the user(s) Headieherbs is either an outright lie or a work of complete fiction
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
headieherbs said: you thought right. you need to use colonized grains to spawn. you can't inoculate poo or a poo grain mixture.
edit: actually you might be able to get away with a PF style jar with abit of poo mixed in, but poo is supposed to be pasteurized not sterilized.
no, you're wrong. you do NOT need spawn to inoculate my signature substrate bags. in fact, using spawn could ruin them. my signature substrate bags are manure, grain and other secret ingredients that make it more than possible.
and you're also wrong that poo is to be pasteurized, not sterilized. it depends 100% on the application.
every single fruit on this table and in my hand was grown from inoculating signature substrate bags with Liquid Culture. 30cc's of LC into each bag.


your information is old and outdated. I'm starting a revolution here, you just haven't realized it yet.
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phillyblunts
Stranger


Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 18
Loc: PA
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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yea but liquid culture isn't the same as a spore solution
-------------------- -Jake
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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exactly, that's why it works so well.
the bags will work with spore solution, they absolutely will. but it'll take much longer, and spores are expensive.
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boomer q
Comrade General



Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 1,091
Loc: Dirty Jersey
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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whats in your signature substrate bags? i see that theyre poo based, but what else? ive tried to shoot up straight poo with an lc before and got 0 results, why are yours such killers?
btw, how much dry weight is on that table?
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
Edited by boomer q (10/14/07 11:59 AM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: boomer q]
#7515537 - 10/14/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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if I told you, I'd have to kill you...
sorry, you know how it is.
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Makaveli_Clean
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 34
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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monstermich...
how would one go about purchasing your poo bags?
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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seeing how they're not sold by any sponsors here... I can't talk about it. sorry.
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 43
Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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will bags with:
# horse manure that has been aged, dried and shredded # millet and milo # vermiculite # earthworm castings # coco coir # garden gypsum # and a few extra ingredients
suffice for direct inoculation??
thanks, c
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7515625 - 10/14/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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sounds like the cheap immitation that will get you about 1/4 the results.
it's like driving a kia vs driving a bmw.
do you want to pay 75% of the price for 25-50% of the results? doesn't sound like a deal to me.
it may work, but not nearly as well. you'll never get results like mine with that setup.
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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Id like the best results I can get - this is my one window opportunity to grow. If you could, monstermitch, let me know of a better product out there, if it isnt sponsored, please pm me. Your advice is greatly appreciated. thanks, c
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acommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi



Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: Cacophony]
#7515872 - 10/14/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by acommunistspyReason for deletion: this never happened
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
acommunistspy said: i know your manure-based bag works with direct inoculation but say if i had a pasteurized bag of poo/straw, would direct inoculation still work?
no.
well, I suppose it could. but you'll be quite hard-pressed to find anyone with success trying.
those are the bags that need to be spawned to generally. which is an extra step, a time consuming one. with results that aren't as good either.
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Funkatron9000
Astronaut



Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 535
Loc: Sector Zed: Region 6: Sol...
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VERY nice monster! so those are all bag grown? How many bags did it take to get that table full?
-------------------- You cannot yet touch my daughters awesome boobage
You must fight to the death in the Breastriary of Nippopolis.
I thought Gene Wilder was cool BEFORE he was dead.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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less than you might imagine.
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acommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi



Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7516405 - 10/14/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by acommunistspyReason for deletion: this never happened
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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yes.
and yes.
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mushylove
Stranger in the Dark
Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 38
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--
Edited by mushylove (10/14/07 09:03 PM)
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Cacophony
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 12 days
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: mushylove]
#7517700 - 10/14/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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aside from PE, what strains do you guys think would do well in bags? (as the shroomery sponsor I have opted to buy from is currently out).
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7517715 - 10/14/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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buy from sporeworks!!
you will not be dissapointed, promise.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
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I love this thread!
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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physlent killer
Stranger


Registered: 11/24/07
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monstermitch, where do you store your bags while they colonize and fruit. Why is nothing else required than what you say:
normal room temps for both colonization and fruiting. normal room lighting for both colonization and fruiting.
Why no incubating or temperature changes?
-------------------- Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity.
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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I have one of your bags MM that is pinning .. cant wait to see how it goes .
I left them at normal room temp to colonize and now its fruiting after I put it in some bright indirect sunlight. easy as pie . it just takes longer than other methods but you dont have to do anything to them . no FAE no martha no humidifier .. nothing ! simple as simple can be
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BreakfastClub
Don't you,forget about me

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 134
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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I was under the assumption they still needed fresh air moving around them....
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Damn, it sure is a kicker having the substrate recipe witheld from you for the sake of profit. This is the first time I've come across secrecy in the name of profit on a board like this where the idea is to share knowledge. Oh well..
Edited by VisionsToReality (11/26/07 04:31 PM)
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Quote:
BreakfastClub said: I was under the assumption they still needed fresh air moving around them....
Yeah, this is the paradox
Everyone raves about FAE, yet then we have these things growing in bags with only filter patches...
I think some people manually deflate/inflate their bags for FAE, every day?
Or do you guys achieve this without manual FAE - just a filter patch?
That'd be nice if someone could clarify the FAE in a bag thing.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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I tried to squeeze air out but it didnt go .. some patches are much finer than others. I could get no air out of it I made some bags that were basically a mixture of coir coffe hpoo diatomatious earth . gypsom calcium carbonate you can use kelp fert . even some verm to help hold water.. one bag made 276 grams wet another just made a couple of really big shrooms .. I am trying the MM bags so we will see how they compare to my homemade bags ..
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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And what'd you do, sterilize the bag of your mix, seal, and inoculate? Pretty much that simple?
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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actually with my bags I spawned to them and none contamed .. I did it in a still air box .. it was 1 qt rye spawn to 2 qts substrate.. I would think that .5 to 2qts would be better since they hold water longer I think they are drying out .. one fruited nice one was only a couple of fruits but large and the last one is still no pins just sitting there.. the substrate was pasteurized not sterilized but you could sterilize and use LC to knock them up with MM bags I used 30CC of LC one colonized really fast the other took a long time but is now colonzied . one is pinning
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BreakfastClub
Don't you,forget about me

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 134
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: fruiting with bags [Re: Cacophony]
#7685769 - 11/27/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I use USPS boxes to measure / incubate / fruit...
I fill my bags in the box till it is even with the box.... Works great
http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13354&productId=11697&langId=-1
this box and it is free
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shroomerite
Apprentice


Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 513
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Just wanted to bring this post up for the noobs. Its a great read.
-------------------- "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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the type of cube you use is very, very important with these. usually I would just say stick to PE, for it is the only one with consistant results across the board. PE does not need the FAE others do. It's a crazy mutant that doesn't mind the bags at all.
and yes, it is very simple.
make substrate and load into bags. pressure cook bags. seal bags. add some sort of inocuation port to them if the bags aren't the fancy ones that come with them already built in. inoculate with 30-60cc of LC. mix up the substrate. place into container and set on a shelf. in a little over a month, open the bag for a killer harvest. spray a little water in there, close the bag up with a couple paper clips. set back on shelf. in another week or so... harvest again.
yeah, it's that simple.
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burma
Searcher of Truth


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 17
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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how big are those bags? and wat strain
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steinringer
Blue Team


Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 26
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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What temp. are you talking about here? 75 degrees?
-------------------- None of what I say,write, or suggest should be taken seriously.
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 875
Loc: North-east USm'f'nA
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Ya, be selective on what you choose to do in bags...some strains suck in bags and perform poorly....you can squeeze the air out of the bags and re-fluff em for a lil air exchange if needed...I prefer putting em in a FC and growing em out that way...but to each his own...
-------------------- aka NHMI
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