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HankHill
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/06
Posts: 73
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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i was going to PM RR actually
his message says that he does not answer cultivation PMs though
indeed then i shall rinse the cakes
i should soap the FC right now?
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Quote one piece of advice I have given ANYONE, that was 100% WRONG without any room for debate?
I dare you fool!
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Okay, what exactly was I wrong about? And when did I ever quote you or even mention your name?
All I told him was stuff I learned from Roger, which piece of advice did I give, that was wrong?
And why do you care, grow up man.
Are you unable to ignore things that bother you?
Quote:
Quote one piece of advice I have given ANYONE, that was 100% WRONG without any room for debate?
I dare you fool!
You bother me because you called me a liar, when I was telling the truth.
What you are wrong about:
here's a list:
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You can pour H2O2 into your perlite to help keep contams at bay.
wrong.
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Don't freak out man, that last member mislead you, one green cake will NOT ruin you future chances of success.
wrong.
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Also, to clean and rinse every cake is to INCREASE the chances of contamination.
wrong.
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Read what RogerRabbit has to say about cleanliness after birth, he agrees with me 100%!
wrong. He rinses under tap water...
but what gets me is how you put words in my mouth. like:
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I would take out the cakes, rinse them under the faucet, clean the hell out of the chamber and put it back together, and do some serious surface cleaning around the house with liquid lysol.
then you turned it into:
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But don't let members tell you to sterilize your house, you can't!
and so on...
 looks like I'm not such a fool after all.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Please use facts to support or refute a disagreement, not RR. Thanks.
It's a good idea to rinse cakes after birthing. In fact, it's a good idea to rinse cakes before and after each dunk, or if they've been exposed to a high contaminant spore load. I routinely spray woodchip blocks with high pressure water every few days to keep the trichoderma and other mold spores off.
Soap and water is fine to clean out a fruiting chamber. The danger from mold spores is not so much in the trashing out of the FC, but in the spores that are released elsewhere to stick to your walls, ceilings, carpet, clothes, etc., and then they decide to drop(by the millions) as you're doing sterile work later.
Other than possibly releasing a bit of O2, which is of doubtful benefit, I see no reason to use peroxide in the perlite. Plain tap water is fine. All you're trying to do is evaporate water into the air, and water that evaporates is by definition, distilled water.
Keep it nice please. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Wronguy

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: You moron... [Re: HankHill]
#7509571 - 10/11/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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First you guys need to chill out. Nothing is getting accomplished with this needless bickering. I see a lot of contradiction in this thread and it seems to stem from the advice surrounding the removal of the contaminated cake.
Monstermitch was pretty clear about his advice and 100% on target. There is a huge difference between having mold spores in your home and germinated trichoderma. Live mycelium from trichoderma will reek havoc on the amount of spores in any given home. It is extremely important to remove the source of contamination to prevent the additional risk to future grows.
Take your fruiting chamber outside and gently remove the cakes one by one. Place each cake into a Ziploc bag if desired and bring to the sink for rinsing. I recommend filling the bag with water by opening the bag with a very small hole so as to not disturb additional spores from entering the air. Fill the bag with water before opening fully. Once you finished with the cakes, let them sit in the sink while you clean your fruiting chamber.
In this case, cleaning of the fruiting chamber is paramount because the amount of germinated spores is concentrated in your fruiting chamber. It is common practice among experienced growers to immediately isolate the source of the contamination and clean the chamber where the contamination is localized. Regardless of what you do when your grow has no contaminates, his future grows are in jeopardy if he leaves that fruiting chamber in its current state.
My advice to you, HankHill, is to remove the cakes, rinse well with tap water, and clean your fruiting chamber. Once the cakes have been rinsed off and fruiting chamber cleaned, you can put the cakes back inside and resume fruiting. Make sure to keep the fresh air high enough to prohibit contaminates from forming, but not too high as to dry your cakes out.
Captain Cubensis, while I don't condone the level of disagreement that has transpired in this thread between you and Monstermitch, I will have to say that you are wrong in your summation. Monstermitch has given a lot to this community and I have yet to see any members go wrong following his advice. While he is a little rough around the edges, his advice is one of knowledge and experience in this hobby.
If this thread continues upon this path I will have to close it for good. Please do not ruin the chance of helping this member by further arguing amongst yourselves. Thank you.
Wronguy
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: here's how you are wrong. [Re: monstermitch]
#7509577 - 10/11/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stretches all, I didn't mean to offend you, but perhaps you are easily offended?
If you want dialogue then here it is.
Regardless of what anyone said, I felt he got the impression he needed to bleach his house every time a green cake popped up.
Just wanted to save him that pressure.
My foaf lives in a 4rth floor condo, with 2 dogs, and the windows open year round, and experiences almost zero contams using clean inoculation teks.
It wasn't a crusade against you man, take a chill pill, that's what people tell me when I get so mad over a post.
I apologize for aggravating your temper, really I do, was just chilling trying to help peeps out.
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Wronguy

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: You moron... [Re: Wronguy]
#7509578 - 10/11/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oops. Looks like you had replied why I was typing RR. Nice job.
I love this job.
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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The whole point is open discussion right?
The rinsing thing, yes I disagree, but it is not written in stone, or 100% scientific is it?
When you see green, it means the cake INSIDE is contamed.
And if all you have to do is rinse the green mold spores off with tap water, then why not rinse your needles in tap before inoculation, or your spoon in tap before G2G?
These are just honest questions, that could be discussed in an intelligent way, instead of name calling and anger.
Rinsing cakes at the kitchen sink to remove contams seems suspect. To hydrate them yes, but how effective, or testable is the assertion that you can rinse off the spores with tap water?
Again, I never quoted you, or mentioned your name, you took on this crusade without provocation, but I do apologize for my part in it.
Edited by Captain Cubensis (10/11/07 04:42 PM)
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HankHill
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/06
Posts: 73
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: You moron... [Re: Wronguy]
#7509597 - 10/11/07 04:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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well goodness
several other cakes have succumbed to mold upon closer look
i took the cakes out, too late for ziplock bags, and i can't take the FC outside due to where i live
i took a towel with soap+water and wiped the sides of the FC
is this good enough?
i rinsed the cakes and put them back in
so there is really no issue in eating mushrooms that come from cakes with mold, as long as the mushrooms aren't moldy
the issue is that the mold will pose contamination risks for future cakes and for inoculation procedures?
now it is situated that i only have 3 viable cakes left, but 2 100% colonized ready to birth soon and 2 or 3 more that will be ready shortly thereafter
the FC is in a closet but the closet is very big and I leave the door open, should it be somewhere else?
i have a very large fan that can put air out or in the closet.
i hope i can have enough to have a proper trip with, i got wonderful light visuals and a sense of peace from eating one half of my first harvest (the other half i wasted by spacing out over the course of a day, not knowing what to expect and how to gauge how many to eat but now i know)
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: You moron... [Re: HankHill]
#7509606 - 10/11/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You only succeeded in hydrating the mold.
My prediction is little to zero yield, and green mold infestation within 48 hours.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Quote:
And if all you have to do is rinse the green mold spores off with tap water, then why not rinse your needled in tap before inoculation, or your spoon in tap before G2G?
Good question. The answer is that when we do grain to grain transfers or other inoculations, we're working with sterile, uncolonized substrate materials and the slightest contaminant spore will take off and grow like crazy. With fully colonized substrates, they can hold their own. You can take a fully colonized cake and break it up with your fingers and spawn it to manure. You can take fully colonized grains, dump them into your hand, and spread them into the bulk substrate without problems. The difference is colonized vs uncolonized. Good luck. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Stretches all, I didn't mean to offend you, but perhaps you are easily offended?
If you want dialogue then here it is.
Regardless of what anyone said, I felt he got the impression he needed to bleach his house every time a green cake popped up.
Just wanted to save him that pressure.
My foaf lives in a 4rth floor condo, with 2 dogs, and the windows open year round, and experiences almost zero contams using clean inoculation teks.
It wasn't a crusade against you man, take a chill pill, that's what people tell me when I get so mad over a post.
I apologize for aggravating your temper, really I do, was just chilling trying to help peeps out.
Here's the problem: Your post, calling me a fool, daring me to prove you wrong. Your attitude is uncalled for, period.
Not one single comment in this thread of mine has even one word of poor advice. I do not deserve being called a liar by you and I don't deserve you telling people not to listen to my sound advice.
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Dont listen to him, listen to Roger.
just because my name isn't here, "him" is instead doesn't mean you weren't talking about me. you need to take responsibility for your actions and stop making excuses for yourself and blaming others for your actions.
You are a rookie. A novice, a noob, whatever. Your problem lies in that you read posts from us experienced growers and jump to conclusions, like you did with me and RR. He and I agree on this, all experienced growers agree on this.
If you had any experience in the hobby, you would know this. You are NOT qualified to hand out advice yet with your current level of education. And your attitude in defending your poor and misinformed posts is simply not called for.
If you got the wrong impression from one of my posts, it's your problem, nobody elses. And it's no excuse for your behavior and/ or reaction.
Quote:
And if all you have to do is rinse the green mold spores off with tap water, then why not rinse your needled in tap before inoculation, or your spoon in tap before G2G?
Again, you are putting words in my mouth, not a good idea. I never said to rinse a contaminated cake under water, only a fully colonized, healthy cake. The rinse is to remove the mold spores that have landed on the surface. The contaminated cake needs to be disposed of immediately.
The difference is in the level of colonization. When working G2G, or when inoculating a sterile substrate such as a pf cake or grain jar/bag you are dealing with uncolonized, sterile, non-selective substrates/substances. Therefore sterility is very important, after full colonization, sterilization is no longer needed at all.
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Nice answer Roger, thanks.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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roger this roger that!!!!! jeez!!! you guys should read some faqs and do a little experimenting. Thats what makes it fun!!!!
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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I agree with that, thing is, there are so many right ways to succeed, it's not all about IDEAL AT ALL TIMES. That's no fun, it's fascist!
-------------------- www.groworganic.com Get 350lbs shipped to your door for only $100! www.mycosupply.com Online Organic Rye Berries www.hydroponics.net/i/200002 The Cyclestat 4P, a great repeat cycle timer made in the USA.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
preschooler said: roger this roger that!!!!! jeez!!! you guys should read some faqs and do a little experimenting. Thats what makes it fun!!!!
Maybe then these people could give their own advice. Instead of misquoting others and handing out advice that could ruin people's grows... Because they don't even understand what they're reading to begin with...

There's no replacement for experience.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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you hit the nail on the head with the experience....until you do it you will not understand.... and that goes with anything in life
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Read what RogerRabbit has to say about cleanliness after birth, he agrees with me 100%!
Good company to be in!
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Dont listen to him, listen to Roger.
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Yeah, listen to Roger, he is a pro, nobody doubts him.
I have been rated extremely poor for doing nothing but advocating his methods.
People always think they are right, no matter what.
Roger follows what they do in commercial operations, he also supplies many farms with spores.
His depth of knowledge is endless.
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Nice answer Roger, thanks.
Quote:
preschooler said: roger this roger that!!!!! jeez!!! you guys should read some faqs and do a little experimenting. Thats what makes it fun!!!!
Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: I agree with that, thing is, there are so many right ways to succeed, it's not all about IDEAL AT ALL TIMES. That's no fun, it's fascist!
hmmm.....

NOW ON TO WHAT MATTERS HERE: THE GUY THAT STARTED THIS THREAD AND HIS QUESTIONS...
Quote:
HankHill said: several other cakes have succumbed to mold upon closer look
i took a towel with soap+water and wiped the sides of the FC is this good enough? i rinsed the cakes and put them back in
so there is really no issue in eating mushrooms that come from cakes with mold, as long as the mushrooms aren't moldy the issue is that the mold will pose contamination risks for future cakes and for inoculation procedures?
the FC is in a closet but the closet is very big and I leave the door open, should it be somewhere else?
No, that is not good enough. If you see any green at all, the cake needs to be thrown away immediately. Do not jostle it around, you'll discharge millions of spores. Do not put it back into the fruiting chamber. It's simple, throw away anything with green immediately. Rinsing is only for healthy cakes, ones without contamination. And soap and water is what you want to clean the inside of your fruiting chamber.
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Yes, that really is the truth. The mushrooms from a moldy cake are fine and safe to eat. The threat is the mold spores becoming airborne and infecting future grows. You must understand something though: A cake infected with mold will NOT continue to produce mushrooms like you want it too. The mold will eventually (sometimes very quickly) consume the whole cake and sporulate everywhere. Saving a moldy cake is never, ever worth it.
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The location of your fruiting chamber is fine. The key is to exchange the air inside the chamber as often as possible while still keeping the humidity very, very high. leaving the lid open or drilling lots of small holes in the side of the chamber are both effective methods of keeping at least some air moving inside of the chamber. In addition, it should be fanned out by hand as often as possible.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Contamination in fruiting chamber [Re: HankHill]
#7510152 - 10/11/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: The original poster has either had his question answered or become disgusted with the dengeneration of his thread and lost interest.
Knock it off guys.
Stop using me to settle arguments. Knowledge is fluid, always changing and evolving. There's no law that says I'm always right and everybody else is always wrong. Show some respect to each other, and to all of us who have to read it. Thanks. RR
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