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Invisibletony8404
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did i boil my casing jars the right way?
    #7508450 - 10/11/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i took 6 quart jars of prepared jiffy mix placed them into my pc with cold water filled up half way up the jars. i put lid on took off the weight. once the water came to boil i let that go for 5 minutes then turned the knob to medium and let that sit for 15 minutes. then turned back onto high for a couple minutes and turned off... the jars were too hot last night to make my casings so i left them in the pc and was gonna case tonight.. will my jars of jiffy mix casing still be okay to use??? also, did i over due the sterlizing part or am i okay???? i have enough to redo but thought id ask first thanks


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508476 - 10/11/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

uh....first of all....water will boil faster if its hot to start with...so hot tap water would be a better choice. second theres no need to be adjusting the dial on the stove put it on medium and leave it there, once it starts boiling then start your countdown. third the jars should be out of the water not halfway up the side of the jar. what tek are you reading?


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508487 - 10/11/07 11:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i read rr's pasturizing tek... it said fill the pot with cold tap water up 2/3 of the jar.... i am confused on how long to boil for ?? in his tek it first said for 1 hour.. then at the end it said to boil for 5 minutes only.. which is it? since i boiled on high for 5 minutes and on medium for 15 did i mess up my jars? also, i left the ring/lid on the jar loose not tight did that matter? since i had to wait for the jars to cool till today will i be okay to use the jars or make new ones? i dont care if i have to remake them i just dont want contams...


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508504 - 10/11/07 11:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

link ?


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508510 - 10/11/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well are you pasteurizing or sterilizing?


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508524 - 10/11/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i thought i was pasteurizing... here is the l[url=http://RogerRabbit's Casing & Pasteurization Tek]http://RogerRabbit's Casing & Pasteurization Tek[/url]ink..


i read rr's pasturizing tek... it said fill the pot with cold tap water up 2/3 of the jar.... i am confused on how long to boil for ?? in his tek it first said for 1 hour.. then at the end it said to boil for 5 minutes only.. which is it? since i boiled on high for 5 minutes and on medium for 15 did i mess up my jars? also, i left the ring/lid on the jar loose not tight did that matter? since i had to wait for the jars to cool till today will i be okay to use the jars or make new ones? i dont care if i have to remake them i just dont want contams...


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508540 - 10/11/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineRRVideoV
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508581 - 10/11/07 11:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Place the lid on the pot and turn on the stove. Bring the water to a boil, but watch over it and as soon as the water actually reaches a boil, shut off the stove, but leave the pot sitting on the burner.




You don't boil the water for an hour. You want the temperature of the contents of the jars to be at 140F to 160F for an hour.

It's also important to start with COLD water. The object isn't to heat the water to boiling as fast as possible, but to heat the interior of the jars to the correct temperature. Cold water takes longer to boil, thus it helps to bring the temperature of the substrate or casing mix up along with it.
RR


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508595 - 10/11/07 11:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

basicaly what is saying is that you need to reach a certain temp range in the jars to pasturize so when you reach that temp turn it toff, and you may need to turn if back on at the halfway mark to get it back up to the desired temp...why dont you just sterilize it for an hour, i'm pretty sure pasturizing is mainly used for poo, it kills bad shit and leaves the good bacteria in it. if its just jiffy mix i would just PC for 1 hour.


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508729 - 10/11/07 12:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

right that is what i am asking... since i let the boil go for 5 minutes on high, then 15 minutes on medium, then on high for a few minutes and then turned off the stove... will this have worked or at least work better from straight out the bag?

i understand on how to do this next time but since i was not able to do the casing last night and i left my jars filled with casing in the pc with the lid on but the jar lids were loose will i be okay to use them tonight
??


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508746 - 10/11/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Use what you have for this time but keep in mind that it's likely you did *not pasteurize them rather instead performed some kind of partial sterilization. The idea is to have the jiffy mix, in the center of the jars, to not go over the 160(F) mark...which is why you shut the heat off the moment they start boiling...not 15-25 minutes later down the road.

The most important reason for that is when you go over that 160(F) target range you're actually cooking the peat moss inside the jars which is causing it to break down into simpler sugars thereby making it somewhat nutritious and therefore easier to contaminate.

But still, use what you have, it's most likely going to be better straight out of the bag, in terms of potential contaminates being killed...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508756 - 10/11/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think you do understand, first of all 5 min on high and 15 on medium doesn't mean anything, the objective is to pasturize your casing material...in order to do that you need to have your jars stay 140-160 for 1 hour. that means cook them untill they are in that range then turn it off and if it drops below 140 then you need to turn the heat back on.....its very simple you need to make your jars have a temperature between 140 degrees and 160 degrees. and they need to stay that way for 1 hour. thats it.


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508772 - 10/11/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

buy a meat themometer and stick in ur center jar....so you know what the temp is


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508786 - 10/11/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no i do understand the technique, now... didnt last night though...i have like 2.5 bags of jiffy mix left over... so that is why i was asking if i should toss what i did last night and redo it tonight...

if i should redo the jiffy mix, i am pretty sure i would have to wait till friday to apply it and that is where i am worried cause i do not want my rye jars to solidfy...

if i redo the jiffy mix tonight using the microwave sterilization way would that work ?


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508806 - 10/11/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

here is what i would do if i were you, i would take the jiffy mix you tried to do and do the microwave tek with that, no need to make more.


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7508817 - 10/11/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

not a bad idea fallingaway24... have you done microwave sterilization? is it 10 minutes on high then wait like 5 mins then again on high for 10 minutes and let cool? could i use my jars in the microwave(i doubt it cause the metal lid/ring right? what if i use the plastic jar lids i have them too but with holes in them i could place micropore tape over the holes..... how long would that take to cool down before casing??? i just wondering cause as soon as i walk in the door i am gonna go and nuke em


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508819 - 10/11/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what the hell is the jiffy mix for? u talkin about that stuff u buy at the grocery store


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7508831 - 10/11/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no not the grocery store stuff.. it is in the garden section at walmart or homedepot or menars or lowes or online... its like a seed starter.. its for making casings, basically everything you would make your own casing is in that bag premade already, all you have to do is sterilize it.


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508840 - 10/11/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i forget what the tek sais but i microwave mine for 15 min in a microwave safe container, just pull up one of the corners on the lid for steam to escape. i've never had any problems with contams doing it that way, if your in a hurry to use it when you open the microwave door close the lid on your container then throw it in the freezer for 10-15 min then its ready to go...now the times i say depend on how much your sterilizing, i do those times for a turkey pan sized casing it may take more or less depending on how much you use but to be safe 15 min in the microwave on high then however long it takes in the freezer to cool down, just remember if the outside feels cool the center might still be very hot so be carefull.


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7508843 - 10/11/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thats neat never seen that stuff before (just googled it) gotta love the vericulite and the coir though its my personal fav


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7508867 - 10/11/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

MGMC or miracle grow moisture controll works well to its also available in the same places you find jiffy mix


--------------------
"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the bottles." ~drugstore cowboy~


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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: fallingaway24]
    #7509069 - 10/11/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I strongly distrust the microwave tek, it's not pasteurization, it's partial sterilization.

Some portions will get hot enough to be cooked and sterilized while other portions will not...but absolutely no portions of the mixture will be pasteurized. And the bits that are sterilized from the heating will be cooked which means they'll become nutritious for whatever contaminate comes into contact with it.

The purpose of pasteurization - in this regard - is to kill any non-thermophilic bacterial and fungal microorganisms *without* cooking the peat moss. Cooking (sterilizing) organic compounds changes their nutritional content...

For our substrates (coir,poo,compost) this is bad because it breaks down the food source a little more than the mycelium likes and it's somewhat like forcing a grown man to eat baby food.

And for our casing materials (peat moss, specifically) it takes something that is relatively non-nutritious and makes it more nutritious by causing it to further break down and release simple sugars and carbohydrates that contaminates can easily colonize.

-----
As always, YMMV...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7509447 - 10/11/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if i already have my jars loaded with jiffy mix could i use those in the microwave?? i know you cannot put aluminum in there would the metal lids/ring be okay? if not what could i use to cover the jars??


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7509521 - 10/11/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Personally, I would not put anything intended for mycology in the microwave. Some growers have success with it, but there's no way to accurately control the temperature of the material.
RR


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7509672 - 10/11/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

just because he wouldn't doesnt mean that it doesn't work. it works flawlessly EVERY TIME for me.
microwave safe container make sure substrate is at optimal water content microwave 5 min stir with fork microwave 5 more


Edited by Tomandjerry58 (10/11/07 04:54 PM)


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7509790 - 10/11/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

okay guys....... if i already have 6 quart jars filled with jiffy mix.... can i place them in the microwave???? if so, can i use the regular lids/ring in the microwave or do i have to use the plastic lids????? i have plastic lids but with holes in them should i place micropore tape over the holes?????????????????????


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7509866 - 10/11/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

all right guys i really need an answer on this one... can i still do the pastureizing even though i did last night but didnt get it right? could i just redo it or do i need to start over?


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Re: did i boil my casing jars the right way? [Re: tony8404]
    #7510004 - 10/11/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, you can redo it, no worries.


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