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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD



Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead...
#7507675 - 10/11/07 01:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most western cultures have long ago adopted 'Free Religion' as a way to respect and allow people of all beliefs to seek and practice their own beliefs.
This IMO was the worst possible scenario of religion, as free religion gives rise to doubt, to reason and logic debating the origins of religions; such as "satanic verses" for Muslims and the vast plethora of historical arguments on the sillyness of the original bible texts that all of our 3 monotheistic religions have spawned from.
So I pose this question, as recently in Canada 5 million of our 30 million claim no religious affiliation, and I am quite confident this will only grow.
Are we moving towards a future without belief in deities?
100 years from now, is non belief going to start changing the world, or will religion be able to fight back with its propganda and ignorance like the world had to deal with in the dark ages?
My humble opinion, we are at the start of a wave of change that will see the end of modern religion as soon as 100-200 years from now.
At least if we hope to survive more than 100 years
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Thor]
#7507734 - 10/11/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm all for some "Age of Aquarius" action, but perhaps this trend is just another loop in the cycle? The people fall out of love with religion and find some freedom. The government follows suit, and openly godless government comes about. Then Rome begins to fall because there is no cohesion to the fabric of society. This causes people to rebel and accept major religious movements to satisfy their need for uniformity and "salvation" in the face of what is perceived to be chaos.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD



Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Rahz]
#7507748 - 10/11/07 02:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm all for some "Age of Aquarius" action, but perhaps this trend is just another loop in the cycle?
When has there ever been acceptance of non belief? Beyond the last 200 years it was beyond shame, it was punishable by death not to believe. It is in fact found today that unbelievers are punishable by death in parts of this world
Quote:
The people fall out of love with religion and find some freedom.
When in history has this occured? We are at a point now in history where 'free religion' has allowed finally the open and outright promotion of non belief to be debated, where as before this was something to be afraid of as a non believer.
Quote:
The government follows suit, and openly godless government comes about.
We have a long time before a government speaks against religion; simply put religion or belief in it is a form of political control. Once you move towards a society/government that believes that god is a child's story; then you will have a real hard time moving back towards religious belief.
Quote:
Then Rome begins to fall because there is no cohesion to the fabric of society. This causes people to rebel and accept major religious movements to satisfy their need for uniformity and "salvation" in the face of what is perceived to be chaos.
The ad hoc of this is that modern society has access to vast amounts of knowledge, old cultures were mandated by powerful religious movements and information was controlled and dictated by the church (educated were a tiny minority.) Peasants had little or no education, religion was tought in foreign tongue's, and decent against belief in a god was responded to by punishment of death.
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Orbus
The Liberator


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Thor]
#7508233 - 10/11/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Institutionalized religion is for people who are unable or unwilling to find out their own answers to life. They'd rather just get their beliefs second hand then take the time to do their own investigation. There does seem to be an increasing trend towards atheism these days especially with these new "hard atheists" such as Richard Dawkins. The problem is that people like these are so concerned with proving religion wrong that they are still playing the game. They are still in the framework of belief/non belief. Instead of atheism we need to move toward nonthesism where the question of God simply doesn't exist. What this allows for is a unbiased view of religion where we might just find out that all religions fundamentally have something true within in them however twisted that truth has become.
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------------------------------------------------------ Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Orbus]
#7508362 - 10/11/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Claiming no religious affiliation doesn't mean a person doesn't believe in a diety or dieties. It just means they don't affiliate with any religious group. They might very well be super spiritual, OR atheist.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Orbus]
#7508446 - 10/11/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Instead of atheism we need to move toward nonthesism where the question of God simply doesn't exist.
This affirmation doesn't make any sense to me. As long as there will be THEISM, there will also be ATHEISM which is merely a response to the first. Also we don't "need" to move towards anything because this "we need" implies something that's being imposed to us and it will really do no good. People will eventually grow out of religion on their own and draw their own conclusion and I think we should leave it at that.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Thor]
#7508575 - 10/11/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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>>>>When has there ever been acceptance of non belief? Beyond the last 200 years it was beyond shame, it was punishable by death not to believe. It is in fact found today that unbelievers are punishable by death in parts of this world
>>>>When in history has this occurred? We are at a point now in history where 'free religion' has allowed finally the open and outright promotion of non belief to be debated, where as before this was something to be afraid of as a non believer.
I think you're being too harsh on history. Periods of Roman history were tolerant of religious faith/lack of faith. Same with Greece before then when philosophy and the thinker were held in high esteem. I'd also guess that Eastern culture has had it's periods of tolerance, and in fact many eastern religious teachings steer away from religious mandates and deity worship.
>>>>We have a long time before a government speaks against religion; simply put religion or belief in it is a form of political control. Once you move towards a society/government that believes that god is a child's story; then you will have a real hard time moving back towards religious belief.
True, but the commies do it. Beyond that, it's obvious that many politicians pander to religious people without any real zest. Their need to invigorate the masses with religious dogma is waining. They give one speech, jump on a plane, and then talk to another audience about multiculturalism and tolerance. National crisis can change things quickly if the situation is bad enough.
>>>>The ad hoc of this is that modern society has access to vast amounts of knowledge, old cultures were mandated by powerful religious movements and information was controlled and dictated by the church (educated were a tiny minority.) Peasants had little or no education, religion was taught in foreign tongue's, and decent against belief in a god was responded to by punishment of death.
This is true, and it is a hopeful development, but is also a result of the political powers tolerance of information. First thing that comes to mind are the masses of people in 1st world countries that seem oblivious to all the information available. Second is China's tight grip on the internet and public opinion in other forms. Watching China is interesting.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (10/11/07 11:33 AM)
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Droz
Love of Life



Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Rahz]
#7508897 - 10/11/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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How will we really notice a change in people? Only thing that is changing is our thoughts.
How do we see this change?
Peace, Droz
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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Orbus
The Liberator


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7508950 - 10/11/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
This affirmation doesn't make any sense to me. As long as there will be THEISM, there will also be ATHEISM which is merely a response to the first. Also we don't "need" to move towards anything because this "we need" implies something that's being imposed to us and it will really do no good. People will eventually grow out of religion on their own and draw their own conclusion and I think we should leave it at that.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think parading atheism is a very good response to theism. Both lead to extreme views. An atheist can easily come to the same dogmatic stance as a theist except in the opposite direction. What I mean by a non theist is someone who simply doesn't take a stance either way. They could still be very spiritual or religions, but don't waste their time debating the existence/nonexistence of God. The philosopher Nietzsche labeled himself as a non-theist and is famous for sending a letter to a devoted atheist who was on his deathbed where he criticized the hell out of him for this.
Oh and yes, of course there is nothing imposing on us. But thats going in a whole other zen direction.
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------------------------------------------------------ Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The growth of Atheism and the challenges ahead... [Re: Droz]
#7509021 - 10/11/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Droz said: How will we really notice a change in people? Only thing that is changing is our thoughts.
How do we see this change?
Peace, Droz
Good observation. Often when we change we see others differently and that can be mistaken for change in them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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