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5tone


Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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dealing with variations in potency
#7506949 - 10/10/07 08:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm hoping to hear from RogerRabbit on this, since he's posted a lot on this subject. I understand that with the multispore approach there can be wide variations in potency between individual fruits, cakes, and flushes, but how does it average out over an entire grow? If you grind and combine the total output of a grow (from say a small newbie batch of 10 pf cakes) and put it in capsules, what are the chances of still ending up with mediocre or bunk doses?
Thanks!
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LayYouIn
Taurus



Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: 5tone]
#7506976 - 10/10/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've only grown multispore. i've only had one person complain and he ate a footlong from subgay about an hour before eating the shrooms. everyone else says that they are good. every time i eat them, they're good. i haven't had a weak batch yet...
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cbiegel
A Dude

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 284
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: LayYouIn]
#7507051 - 10/10/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think the potency varies that much. Sure some but not too much. Of course grinding everything up will make sure that you get a nice even dose but I would worry more about too strong a dose than one that's not strong enough.
-------------------- Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew.
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Agave
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 126
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: cbiegel]
#7507740 - 10/11/07 01:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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What you stated about grinding up and mixing thourougly is one solution (probably the easiest). You could also make an alcohol tincture that essentially serve the same purpose. These teks won't alter the potency, but they will provide a standard unit of dose for you to work with. IME they don't vary enough to be noticible anyway.
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mebesideme
o-bliminal


Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 177
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: Agave]
#7507834 - 10/11/07 03:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have never seen my friends' mushrooms to be varying in potency very much. In all honesty, if I had a strain that was so inconsistent, I would probably start working overtime on getting some better quality spores. Seems to me you may have some genetic issues, i.e. the strain you are using maybe is weak or getting there due to degradation from continuing it the wrong way?
-------------------- Doot de dooh.... yep yep yep. A signature and stuff...
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5tone


Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: mebesideme]
#7508249 - 10/11/07 09:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's good news, thanks you guys. Reading the boards I was starting to get the impression that weak grows happened pretty often. I'm getting such nice results my first time out I didn't want to be sorely disappointed when I finally get to eat some. The capsule thing seems like the way to go- I've gotten such variable results with my standard dose of street shrooms that it'll be real nice to have each batch be a known quantity.
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veilbreaker
Sour girl


Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 528
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: 5tone]
#7508357 - 10/11/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mine have been quite consistent, even with differing strains and substrates.
Street shrooms would vary more because they degrade with poor storage, and who knows where they've been.
-------------------- People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
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LayYouIn
Taurus



Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: cbiegel]
#7510529 - 10/11/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cbiegel said: Of course grinding everything up will make sure that you get a nice even dose but I would worry more about too strong a dose than one that's not strong enough.
but you could still end up with the less potent parts by random chance...
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: LayYouIn]
#7510557 - 10/11/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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learn how to clone to be 100% certain. but like was stated above . i dont think multispore will vary that much because if you got the prints/syringes from a vendor or a good trader they knew how to store them and make them
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LayYouIn
Taurus



Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: blood4blood]
#7510594 - 10/11/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blood4blood said: i dont think multispore will vary that much because if you got the prints/syringes from a vendor or a good trader they knew how to store them and make them
i dont see how this would be relevant.
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KCizzle
Egar Noob


Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 81
Loc: Vancouver, BC BABY!
Last seen: 10 months, 4 days
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: LayYouIn]
#7511155 - 10/11/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Speaking of cloning. Just a quick question. I see in alot of avatars just a massive forest of caps. Sometimes to the point where you can't even see the casing it self. Can that kind of uniformity can only be accomplished with cloning?
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: LayYouIn]
#7511160 - 10/11/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you clone a potent specimen, make a master culture, then propagate from that line, and also harvest BEFORE the veil tears, you will maximize potency.
Potency does vary from strain to strain, so experiment with several, and cultivate your favorite.
-------------------- www.groworganic.com Get 350lbs shipped to your door for only $100! www.mycosupply.com Online Organic Rye Berries www.hydroponics.net/i/200002 The Cyclestat 4P, a great repeat cycle timer made in the USA.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: If you clone a potent specimen, make a master culture, then propagate from that line, and also harvest BEFORE the veil tears, you will maximize potency.
Potency does vary from strain to strain, so experiment with several, and cultivate your favorite.
how is potency effected by whether the veil has torn or not? I thought it only had to do with food quality...
please explain further.
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xhooliganx
Munky


Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: monstermitch]
#7511439 - 10/12/07 12:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said:
Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: If you clone a potent specimen, make a master culture, then propagate from that line, and also harvest BEFORE the veil tears, you will maximize potency.
Potency does vary from strain to strain, so experiment with several, and cultivate your favorite.
how is potency effected by whether the veil has torn or not? I thought it only had to do with food quality...
please explain further.
correct sir. it's just more bs that keeps being circulated. seeing as everyone has their own opinion on how strong something is because of what they had to eat how much sleep they had how much they weigh and how often the shroom it's not a chemical assay. pesa must be weak as fuck cause I eat atleast 7 grams dried to reach a moderate buzz. then again my friends get wasted off of 2 grams. maybe I need to take a long break. potency is not to be measured off of personal experience. if you x amount of chicken you get y amount of protein. if you eat a amountof beef you get b amount of fat. it doesn't vary that much
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xhooliganx
Munky


Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: monstermitch]
#7511441 - 10/12/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said:
Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: If you clone a potent specimen, make a master culture, then propagate from that line, and also harvest BEFORE the veil tears, you will maximize potency.
Potency does vary from strain to strain, so experiment with several, and cultivate your favorite.
how is potency effected by whether the veil has torn or not? I thought it only had to do with food quality...
please explain further.
correct sir. it's just more bs that keeps being circulated. seeing as everyone has their own opinion on how strong something is because of what they had to eat how much sleep they had how much they weigh and how often the shroom it's not a chemical assay. pesa must be weak as fuck cause I eat atleast 7 grams dried to reach a moderate buzz. then again my friends get wasted off of 2 grams. maybe I need to take a long break. potency is not to be measured off of personal experience. if you x amount of chicken you get y amount of protein. if you eat a amountof beef you get b amount of fat. if you eat q amount of cubes you get p amount of plisocin and r amount of psilocybin. it doesn't vary that much
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veilbreaker
Sour girl


Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 528
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: xhooliganx]
#7513312 - 10/13/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
xhooliganx said:
Quote:
monstermitch said:
Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: If you clone a potent specimen, make a master culture, then propagate from that line, and also harvest BEFORE the veil tears, you will maximize potency.
Potency does vary from strain to strain, so experiment with several, and cultivate your favorite.
how is potency effected by whether the veil has torn or not? I thought it only had to do with food quality...
please explain further.
correct sir. it's just more bs that keeps being circulated. seeing as everyone has their own opinion on how strong something is because of what they had to eat how much sleep they had how much they weigh and how often the shroom it's not a chemical assay. pesa must be weak as fuck cause I eat atleast 7 grams dried to reach a moderate buzz. then again my friends get wasted off of 2 grams. maybe I need to take a long break. potency is not to be measured off of personal experience. if you x amount of chicken you get y amount of protein. if you eat a amountof beef you get b amount of fat. it doesn't vary that much
I think the assumption is that when the veil starts to break is the point at which the fruit stops producing psychoactives in order to produce spores. The fruit gets bigger but does not produce psychoactives in the same proportion to its weight.
Seems true to me, but there is much more experimentation to be done
-------------------- People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: veilbreaker]
#7513333 - 10/13/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
veilbreaker said: I think the assumption is that when the veil starts to break is the point at which the fruit stops producing psychoactives in order to produce spores. The fruit gets bigger but does not produce psychoactives in the same proportion to its weight.
Seems true to me, but there is much more experimentation to be done
care to offer a better explaination than that? sorry, but I'm not buying it. how about citing the source of your information please? do you understand the life cycle of a mushroom very well? if so, please explain it better than that. good post to read.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: monstermitch]
#7513372 - 10/13/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mushrooms that are picked small and immature will be more potent by weight than they would be if allowed to fully mature, and that's a fact. As the cells engorge with water, there's no evidence that they increase in potency as well. The 'veil tearing' is just a signpost along the way that indicates a good time to pick. It has nothing in and of itself to do with potency. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: monstermitch]
#7513379 - 10/13/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This should be interesting....
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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veilbreaker
Sour girl


Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 528
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: monstermitch]
#7518785 - 10/15/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said:
Quote:
veilbreaker said: I think the assumption is that when the veil starts to break is the point at which the fruit stops producing psychoactives in order to produce spores. The fruit gets bigger but does not produce psychoactives in the same proportion to its weight.
Seems true to me, but there is much more experimentation to be done
care to offer a better explaination than that? sorry, but I'm not buying it. how about citing the source of your information please? do you understand the life cycle of a mushroom very well? if so, please explain it better than that. good post to read.
If you read my post again you will see I was merely explaining the rationale behind the general consensus that it is best to pick mushrooms when the veil is tearing. I did not claim it is a fact; it is conjecture which happens to have been supported by my own experiences.
You are welcome to do all the research you like if you are looking for a definitive answer.
-------------------- People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7518802 - 10/15/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Mushrooms that are picked small and immature will be more potent by weight than they would be if allowed to fully mature, and that's a fact. As the cells engorge with water, there's no evidence that they increase in potency as well. The 'veil tearing' is just a signpost along the way that indicates a good time to pick. It has nothing in and of itself to do with potency. RR
RR is absolutely correct here, but, there are other factors you can put in there to increase potency, better substrates, substrates of high quality, better genetics, considering potency is genetic at the least.
I myself do not believe in the veil tearing being the best time to harvest, I let the cap slightly open, and grab them before spores start to show.
Reason being, caps filled with spores, taste link INKY shit, not just shit, like INKY NASTY shit.
so...
IMO while RR is correct, it really doesn't matter, get what weight you can out of them.
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QDP843
Entrepreneur


Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 295
Loc: SOUTHERN
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: dealing with variations in potency [Re: veilbreaker]
#7518863 - 10/15/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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it's a mind thing. if people can't appreciate them, the shrooms won't appreciate them either.....sounds weird, but it's true.
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