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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
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Cytokinin Experiment.
#7506886 - 10/10/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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so, i obtained some "keiki paste" which is used in the propagation of orchids, it is used to produce keiki's (baby plantlets) on the flowering spikes of certain types of orchid. keiki paste contains a hormone called cytokinin which stimulates axillary branching in plants. so obviously it should work on cacti in the same way, at least i am hoping it will... see here for explanation of keiki/keiki paste.

this thread is where i got the inspiration to try out this experiment. i cant claim that it is my idea, but i havent seen anyone post about this topic at all and it is something that i have been interested in trying for myself since i first read that thread of una's. if u read the above thread u will see that una used BAP and lanolin to produce a paste similar to the one i am using, so its not exactly the same, mine is a lower tech attempt to produce similar results, he talks about keiki paste there so i thought it would be worth a shot.
below are the 12 test specimens. u can see from the photos that i have smeared the paste on one aerole per specimen, using a tooth pick.
#1. astrophytum asterias.

#2. myrtillocactus geometrizans monstrosus, aka booby cactus.

#3. lophophora williamsii cristata.

#4. trichocereus pachanoi cristata.

#5. four ribbed trichocereus bridgesii.

#6. myrtillocactus geometrizans.

#7. trichocereus bridgesii monstrosus, aka penis plant.

#8. trichocereus peruvianus.

#9. trichocereus pachanoi "tom juuls giant"

#10. lophophora williamsii A.

#11. lophophora williamsii B.

#12. lophophora williamsii C.

im not doing this in an attempt to produce wierd pupping lophophora or multi branched trichocereus, it is simply a test to determine its effectivity. if it is succesful i shall be using it as a means to propagate rare specimens. it should provide a good alternative method of producing pups for grafting, as opposed to mutilating specimens that i dont want to disfigure.
i'll report back in a month or so and hopefully i will have some results to show *fingers crossed* so wish me luck cos this could be very useful to all the cacti growers out there
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felixhigh
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Very nice, good luck! My friend is trying to make a BAP paste... No success so far, I believe he didn´t make it strong enough.
FH
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: felixhigh]
#7507194 - 10/10/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah im not sure that the keiki paste has enough hormone in it, but lets hope so!
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VirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion


Registered: 05/17/05
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Cool! Very interesting experiment. Did you get the paste from an Orchid grower who made it themselves or is it commercially available?
Good luck!
-------------------- Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense... "Religion is a defense against a religious experience" Carl G. Jung "So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience." Terence McKenna
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kadakuda
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: VirgilKane]
#7507338 - 10/10/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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sweet man looks great! cant wait to see what happens with the astrophytum! the crest will be quite interesting as well. What % is your paste? my brother in law bought a new brand a while ago and it is very weak and virtually useless (for orchids).....the cheapskate lol.
virgil, google it. its easy to find online. you can also buy all the ingredients to make your own (if you want to put in the effort and money)
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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VirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion


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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: kadakuda]
#7507343 - 10/10/07 10:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool man, thanks!
-------------------- Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense... "Religion is a defense against a religious experience" Carl G. Jung "So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience." Terence McKenna
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royer
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: VirgilKane]
#7507800 - 10/11/07 03:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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did you cut the point of where you applied the paste?
i know when i did orchids a few years ago that it came with a little knife and i had to cut a little flap under the node then spread it.
maybe cut a tuff off one and give it a try??
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thallus
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: VirgilKane]
#7507802 - 10/11/07 03:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great stuff, do you know which type of CK is in your paste?
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7507814 - 10/11/07 03:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kadakuda said: What % is your paste? my brother in law bought a new brand a while ago and it is very weak and virtually useless (for orchids).....the cheapskate lol.
i have no idea on the % of cytokinin in the paste, it wasnt quoted... if it doesnt work then i will buy the BAP and lanolin and make up my own paste as in una's thread... i just wanted to try this as its alot easier and cheaper than making my own 
plus some fuckstick stole my orchids so i have no other use for it...
Quote:
royer9864 said: did you cut the point of where you applied the paste?
i know when i did orchids a few years ago that it came with a little knife and i had to cut a little flap under the node then spread it.
maybe cut a tuff off one and give it a try??
yeah with orchids u have to remove the bract from the node, then apply to the fresh exposed area... i dont think that will be necessary with cacti though, i dont want to damage the aerole in any way or that will probably stop it from throwing a pup... i did scrape the surface of the aerole lightly with the toothpick, to make sure that the paste was well applied
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jasonpwnd
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Registered: 08/10/07
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sounds very interesting, cant wait to see your results
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geedorah
CHOPPN SCIM



Registered: 11/30/06
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Those phals look sexy on that wiki page. I'm going to give this a try on some of my orchids.
Great experiment!
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: geedorah]
#7508212 - 10/11/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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cant believe someone stole my phals... i was gutted
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royer
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i will post pics tonight of a similar experiment and i would love to post it here if it is ok with you :-))
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Psiloman
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Why not try on some cut aeroles and on some intact ones at the same time?
This can give you the best of both worlds,plus a more conclusive experiment.
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royer
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Psiloman]
#7508577 - 10/11/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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that is what i plan on doing :-)
just waiting to see if my friend minds me posting in his thread ??
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Psiloman]
#7508846 - 10/11/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psiloman said: Why not try on some cut aeroles and on some intact ones at the same time?
one step at a time eh... i dont like mutilating my cacti for no reason. as proved by una there is no need to cut the aerole if the hormone is of a sufficient strength... if i have no success this way i shall perhaps try cutting the aerole... but more likely i will get my hands on some better cytokinin.
Quote:
royer9864 said: i will post pics tonight of a similar experiment and i would love to post it here if it is ok with you :-))
go for it!
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royer
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ok so first here is the pic of the hormone  it is green and very thick like grease:-))
 ok so first i took one of my lophophora's and cut off one of the aeroles off and applied 
next i took a similar lophophora and applied with out cutting it

then i took a graft that i recently made and applied some to an aerole

then just for fun i took some pereskiopsis and plucked off a few leafs and applied some hormone, but it is not like it need a hormone to pup like crazy
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7511509 - 10/12/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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goodluck with yours man
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royer
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-------------------- ================================================= if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7622447 - 11/11/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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hello 

havent noticed any pups staring on the others yet, so i wont take this as conclusive proof that the keiki paste works, as this particular plant is clump forming anyway... but its a start 
anything yet royer?
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cpw1971
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Registered: 10/07/06
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yep here comes one  wouldn't it be really cool to see a Trich with big pups coming off every aerole???
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strangladesh
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: cpw1971]
#7622775 - 11/11/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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were did you find that stuff and how much was it.
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
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well apparently lanolin & BAP are more effective then kieki paste http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Benzyladenine.html for BAP which I can't find what stands for.
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kadakuda
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Knoa6]
#7623651 - 11/11/07 09:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think kieki paste has it in it does it not? the disadvantage is you are stuck with that pastes %, mixing your own may be better.
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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Knoa6
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: kadakuda]
#7624037 - 11/11/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
kadakuda said: i think kieki paste has it in it does it not? the disadvantage is you are stuck with that pastes %, mixing your own may be better.
I assume that is exactly right.
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royer
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Knoa6]
#7624458 - 11/12/07 03:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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nope nothing from mine yet
my paste is about 4 years old though
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7625280 - 11/12/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cpw1971 said: wouldn't it be really cool to see a Trich with big pups coming off every aerole???
well thats not really the point of doing this...
Quote:
strangladesh said: were did you find that stuff and how much was it.
google.
Quote:
Knoa6 said:
Quote:
kadakuda said: i think kieki paste has it in it does it not? the disadvantage is you are stuck with that pastes %, mixing your own may be better.
I assume that is exactly right.
it definately has cytokinin, but not sure about BAP... im fully aware that this may not be an ideal % of the required hormone, this is just an experiment to determine wether it works as a low cost/low effort approach... if it doesnt work i shall get the correct individual ingredients and make my own paste as una did...
Quote:
royer9864 said: nope nothing from mine yet
my paste is about 4 years old though
lol newer would probably be better... although i wouldnt know if keiki paste goes out of date or not
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cpw1971
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I know thats not the point but wouldn't it look cool??? a cheaper way to get cacti to pup is chop off the top
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: cpw1971]
#7625716 - 11/12/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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indeed i could just cut the tops off my plants, but i dont want to mutilate them... i like having nice looking specimens that havent been chopped down to stumps 
pups from every aerole? that would look wierd, and if left to grow up they would just crowd each other out... only a few would grow anyway, the rest would just stall...
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Knoa6
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updates?
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cpw1971
Mr

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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Knoa6]
#7873953 - 01/13/08 03:46 PM (16 years, 19 days ago) |
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yeah updates?? hey uare... do stalled pups ever unstall?? maybe in the summer heat and sun?? I have a couple
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: cpw1971]
#7875086 - 01/13/08 07:28 PM (16 years, 19 days ago) |
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oh yeah i forgot about this! nothing more to report unfortunately... except for the monstrose bridgesii pup, nothing else pupped... so i suspect that the bridgesii was planning to pup from that particular aerole anyway 
when im back from indonesia i'll try and get my hands on the BAP & lanolin and try that method 
cpw >>> it depends if the cactus is putting its energy into growing another area, like if u had 2 growing pups and 1 stalled pup on the same plant, the stalled one may remain stalled for a long time... but i guess that theroetical stalled pup should grow one day, perhaps when the root system is larger and it can support more growth... if the pup is large enough to cut off and root then id do that, capitalise and get another plant going on its own roots...
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royer
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none of mine puped either
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7877233 - 01/14/08 07:13 AM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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oh well, it was worth a shot
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royer
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-------------------- ================================================= if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: royer]
#7877741 - 01/14/08 10:50 AM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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so wot do u think man, not enough of the cytokinin hormone in the keiki paste? thats the conclusion i came to anyway...
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Knoa6
Sunn 0)))



Registered: 04/25/07
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So what does BAP stand for?
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


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Re: Cytokinin Experiment. [Re: Knoa6]
#7877787 - 01/14/08 11:10 AM (16 years, 18 days ago) |
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6-Benzylaminopurine
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


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ok, so after my failed attempt using keiki paste i managed to get my hands on some BAP hormone and i will be trying this out when spring finally arrives. just thought i'd post about it here so that anyone in the southern hemisphere has a chance of trying it out while summer is still going strong 
here is some more info for anyone who is interested in trying this out:
Quote:
6-Benzylaminopurine, benzyl adenine or BAP is a first-generation synthetic cytokinin which elicits plant growth and development responses, setting blossoms and stimulating fruit richness by stimulating cell division.
it really is a simple procedure. the hormone itself is a white powder, you need to mix it with lanolin at approximately 10% w/w. then this paste should be applied to the aeroles with a toothpick, it seems to be more effective if you scratch/damage the surface of the aerole so it is easily absorbed. this should be done when the plants are in full growth.
the hormone is widely used in tissue culturing already so it should not be difficult to find. and lanolin is easy to find also, search for nipple cream lol
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