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InvisibleAsante
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A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple?
    #7506328 - 10/10/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've got a simple idea for Cubie cultivation based on combinations of TEKs that I read here over the years. I'm asking the experienced growers to assess it.

1..A suitable grain is cooked.
2..It is stuffed into autoclavable filter bags, bag is closed.
3..The bag is run in the PC for 1.5 hour (few liters capacity)
4..The bag is cooled in the PC and taken out.
5..Inject 1cc of spores in the bag (after a swab, flamed needle, closed with tape)
6..As the myc grows the bag is occasionally kneaded to speed colonization.
7..The fully colonized lump is set up in a fruiting chamber. (humid, room temp, indirect sunlight)
8..The lump flushes and flushes while the grower cheers it on with colorful pom poms.

The bottlenecks I see is the time in the PC and the kneading of the grain to spread the mycelium. I don't know if that can be done in a filter-bag.

As a budget substrate I'm thinking wet straw dusted with rye flour instead of grain.

.
Experienced Growers -- Can it be this simple?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/10/07 05:22 PM) to (No end specified)
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Edited by Asante (10/10/07 05:28 PM)


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7506331 - 10/10/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what's in that bag isn't technically a cake.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7506349 - 10/10/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

OK that's semantics, so I got the lingo wrong :wink:

But the method outlined, would it be a good simple way to go at it?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7506352 - 10/10/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

you could make growing shrooms very simple, the question is just how much time do you want to spend on what amount.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7506363 - 10/10/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

For an indoor technique this seems relatively easy, especially when compared with jars and such.


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Offlineanomaly420
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7506364 - 10/10/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I've got a simple idea for Cubie cultivation based on combinations of TEKs that I read here over the years. I'm asking the experienced growers to assess it.

1..A suitable grain is cooked.
2..It is stuffed into autoclavable filter bags, bag is closed.
3..The bag is run in the PC for 1.5 hour (few liters capacity)
4..The bag is cooled in the PC and taken out.
5..Inject 1cc of spores in the bag (after a swab, flamed needle, closed with tape)
6..As the myc grows the bag is occasionally kneaded to speed colonization.
7..The fully colonized lump is set up in a fruiting chamber. (humid, room temp, indirect sunlight)
8..The lump flushes and flushes while the grower cheers it on with colorful pom poms.

The bottlenecks I see is the time in the PC and the kneading of the grain to spread the mycelium. I don't know if that can be done in a filter-bag.

As a budget substrate I'm thinking wet straw dusted with rye flour instead of grain.

.




Such a bag already exists. They have compost bags and grain bags with a filter patch on one side and a self-healing inoculation point on the other side.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: anomaly420]
    #7506368 - 10/10/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I know the bags exist :grin: but does the technique outlined seem viable?


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OfflineErmizhad
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7506486 - 10/10/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

why don´t you give it a try and tell us about it... don´t be lasy


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Ermizhad]
    #7506562 - 10/10/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's not terribly different from every other method. I don't see why you'd mess around with dusting your straw with flour though, since straw is perfectly nutritious, and since it might make it hard to get the moisture balance right. It would be easy to make it too dry, since you're dousing it with flour; if you overcompensate, you might get sticky little clumped pockets with insufficient air exchange, etc., same as with soggy whole grains.

Straw is a good sub. I don't know that anyone injects directly to straw, mind, but plenty of people spawn to it. Spawning is pretty easy, and I suggest you use the tried and true method rather than mess around with injection directly to bulk.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7506584 - 10/10/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I don't see why you'd mess around with dusting your straw with flour though




The straw will be coated with gelled rye, which is a good substrate for spore germination.

Quote:

I don't know that anyone injects directly to straw




A little pin prick gives a lot smaller risk of contamination than spawning. It also simplifies things a great deal, and I love simplicity.

Quote:

I suggest you use the tried and true method rather than mess around with injection directly to bulk.




If everybody did the tried-and-true, there would be no innovation. The thought to be able to inoculate 10-20 bags with one syringe is very economic also.


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Offlinecbiegel
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7507265 - 10/10/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't want to be harsh but is this simplistic list going to help anyone in the real world?

"1..A suitable grain is cooked."

What does this even mean? Anyone who understands this isn't going to need a "simple idea."


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OfflineUnknownMycophile
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: cbiegel]
    #7507462 - 10/10/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cbiegel said:
I don't want to be harsh but is this simplistic list going to help anyone in the real world?

"1..A suitable grain is cooked."

What does this even mean? Anyone who understands this isn't going to need a "simple idea."




You've got a point.


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Invisiblefour20snakeman
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7507499 - 10/10/07 11:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:

I suggest you use the tried and true method rather than mess around with injection directly to bulk.





If everyone followed your advice, PF would never have messed around with trying to make cultivation easier for the average Joe.


:thumbup: to Wiccan for thinking outside the jar.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: four20snakeman]
    #7507659 - 10/11/07 01:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Does mixing agar with straw help?


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: Asante]
    #7533837 - 10/19/07 01:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

If everybody did the tried-and-true, there would be no innovation. The thought to be able to inoculate 10-20 bags with one syringe is very economic also.




Touche. Do it and show pics. Tits or GTFO, as they say! (Uh, figuratively--both on the tits and the GTFO aspect.)

And it is my experience that straw--like freakin' cardboard--has everything in it you need to germinate. That means the rye flour is a tinker toy. Straw just isn't a good medium for mycelial spreading. See, most pieces of straw aren't going to touch one another directly... there are gaps galore, even in the most tightly-packed bundle. This means you're going to have to sit around still longer waiting on colonization while your straw (maybe) catches contams.

Hence bad idea. But, again, if you can show it, it's solid. Until then, it's in line with my absolutely bonkers notion of using Karo as a BRF additive. Experimentation is fun, and it's fun to share it with people, but it's way less fun to actually go through with all of it and report. Hence the "Tits or GTFO". Good luck, and please let us know!


Oh, and if you choose a different grain, say a traditional spawn grain, like rye, know that the high carb content seems to belie a lack of rounded nutrition. There's a reason professional growers use compost (to which only straw and poo compare favorably). Size is weak, moisture retention being the probable #1 culprit with low N a close second.

Quote:

If everyone followed your advice, PF would never have messed around with trying to make cultivation easier for the average Joe.


:thumbup: to Wiccan for thinking outside the jar.




Hey, whatever. I tinkered too, it was fun. Didn't get me anything for my troubles, mind--yield usually decreased or showed no measurable effect, or else it was a completely harebrained notion like injecting straight into straw (again, sorry, I'll eat my words if it works consistently).

PF is not a revolution, anyway--it's a cool little toy, or it's a crutch, take your pick. If you absolutely haaaaave to grow in a solo cup, that's your boy. If you actually want to have a reasonable return on your time and money, there is no reason to fool around with BRF cakes after a few months of learning the ropes, other than to potentially use them as spawn in the case of having no pressure cooker (not fully recommended, by the way, 25% contam rate more or less--the mold spores stick in the verm barrier, d'oh, so you need to use your favorite filter lid).


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS


Edited by figgusfiddus (10/19/07 01:31 AM)


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: A simple idea for growing cubies... Is it too simple? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7533857 - 10/19/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Does mixing agar with straw help?




Basically, agar is what you use to suspend your nutrients so you can handle them easily. It is not food for your mycelium, that's why you add malt extract. It is not an additive to anything on its own, unless you fancy yourself a shroom alchemist. In other words, no way, waste of good agar.


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