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MorphinTime
Tulpa



Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 7,151
Loc: Angel Grove
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: withoutawire]
#16252742 - 05/19/12 01:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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The blackhawk is fun, but I can't hit shit with it. My brother is jealous of my .270 though. "His" .30-06 is probably the most accurate out-of-the-box long gun in the world however.
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withoutawire
hi


Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 11,384
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: MorphinTime]
#16252756 - 05/19/12 01:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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More accurate than the intervention in .408? 
I prefer .270 over 30-06 too. It flys much flatter and if you can't kill a deer with a .270 at 250 yards then 30-06 isn't going to make it any easier.
If I'm hunting elk I use .300win mag. 168g hornaday super max tipped round. Costs like $70 for 20 rounds though.
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MorphinTime
Tulpa



Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 7,151
Loc: Angel Grove
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: withoutawire]
#16252772 - 05/19/12 01:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
withoutawire said: More accurate than the intervention in .408? 
I prefer .270 over 30-06 too. It flys much flatter and if you can't kill a deer with a .270 at 250 yards then 30-06 isn't going to make it any easier.
If I'm hunting elk I use .300win mag. 168g hornaday super max tipped round. Costs like $70 for 20 rounds though.
Yeah, I've noticed the jump in .300 win mag prices and I don't even own a gun that shoots that round 
I actually prefer a .280 Ackley improved or a .284 over a .270, it's just what I've got. This .30-06 though, you can punch bullets through the same hole at 200 yards and it's had no work done on it. It's a late 80's Remington Model 700. I can't believe my dad is giving it to my brother.
Edit: educate me about this .408
Edited by MorphinTime (05/19/12 01:51 AM)
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withoutawire
hi


Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 11,384
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: MorphinTime]
#16252854 - 05/19/12 02:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
he .408 Cheyenne Tactical (or .408 CheyTac) is a specialized rimless, bottlenecked, centerfire cartridge for military long-range sniper rifles that was developed by Dr. John D. Taylor and machinist William O. Wordman. It was designed with a possible military need in mind for a cartridge for both the anti-personnel, anti-sniper and anti-materiel role with a (supersonic) precision range of 2,200 yards (2,000 m). It is hoped it will fill in a supposed market niche for long-range cartridges and is offered as a competitor to the most common military NATO long-range service cartridges .338 Lapua Magnum and the .50 BMG.
The .338 Lapua is a BADASS super fast round too. It flys flatter and at 250-300 grains it puts people DOWN.
Quote:
Ballistic Coefficient of the Jamison 419-grain (27.2 g) projectile
Cheyenne Tactical claimed a Doppler radar-measured G1 ballistic coefficient (BC) for the Lost River Ballistic Technologies/Jamison International 419-grain (27.15 g) bullet of roughly 0.934, though this number has been disputed by a number of knowledgeable sources. Extreme Firearms claimed the G1 BC of the same .408 CheyTac projectile to average 0.945 to 2000 meters and it drops to the low 0.900s to 2800 meters.[6] The .408 CheyTac projectile remains supersonic up to 2,300 yards (2,100 m) according to Extreme Firearms. CheyTac LLC claims that the 26.95 gram (419 gr) projectile has a supersonic range of 2,200+ yards (2,011+ m) at 'standard air conditions'.[7] The average ballistic coefficient of the 419 grain (27.15 g) is 0.945 over 3,825 yards (3,500 m). Jamison International states the G1 BC of this bullet on their website currently (2009) at 0.940.
The above variations can be explained by differences in the ambient air density used for these BC statements or differing range-speed measurements on which the stated G1 BC averages are based. The BC changes during a projectiles flight and stated BC's are always averages for particular range-speed regimes. Some more explanation about the transient nature of a projectile's G1 BC (it rises above or gets under a stated average value for a certain speed-range regime) during flight can be found at the external ballistics article. This article implies that knowing how a BC was established is almost as important as knowing the stated BC value itself. Balanced-flight / controlled-spin projectile
Lost River Ballistic Technologies (statement of Mr. Warren Jensen) stated that "the .408 CheyTac is the first bullet/rifle system that utilizes what they call a balanced flight projectile. To achieve balanced flight the linear drag has to be balanced with the rotational drag to keep the very fine nose (meplat) of the bullet pointed directly into the oncoming air. It should result in very little precession and yaw at extreme range and allows accurate flight back through the transonic region. This is hard to achieve for small arms projectiles. Mathematically you are at a great disadvantage trying to achieve balanced flight with a lead core non mono metal bullet. The rotational mass/surface area ratio is too high."
The balanced flight projectile patent can be found at the US Patent Office, Controlled spin projectile, US PAT No. 6,629,669. According to the patent a projectile engraved and launched according to the teachings of the patented invention should decelerate from supersonic flight through transonic to subsonic in a stable and predictable manner effective to a range beyond 3000 yards (2,743 m). It implies that amongst several other preconditions the rifle barrel has to have specific rifling dimensions to achieve a desired amount of axial air drag on the bullets surface, which reduces the bullets spinrate to achieve balanced flight. The patent does not account for normally occurring differences in air density. More about balanced flight can also be found in the CheyTac Information Papers.[7]
The Balanced Flight/Controlled Spin Projectile bullet patent has been questioned/disputed by the German physicist Lutz Möller.[8] Mr. Möller realized balanced flight has to do with the nature of spin stabilized flight and scale of parameters. There were projectiles produced prior to the patent that remain stable through the transonic flight regime. This is a consequence of the spin deceleration and forward deceleration of the projectile being similar enough not to cause undesirable precession and yaw during the transonic flight phase. The main parameter for achieving stable transonic transition is controlling the drag coefficients (Cd) and forward velocity loss around Mach 1 and to a lesser degree controlling the spin deceleration. In other words, any bullet with appropriate drag behaviour around Mach 1 and mass (distribution) will do exactly what the balanced flight projectile patent states.
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MorphinTime
Tulpa



Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 7,151
Loc: Angel Grove
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: withoutawire]
#16252875 - 05/19/12 02:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
withoutawire said:
Quote:
he .408 Cheyenne Tactical (or .408 CheyTac) is a specialized rimless, bottlenecked, centerfire cartridge for military long-range sniper rifles that was developed by Dr. John D. Taylor and machinist William O. Wordman. It was designed with a possible military need in mind for a cartridge for both the anti-personnel, anti-sniper and anti-materiel role with a (supersonic) precision range of 2,200 yards (2,000 m). It is hoped it will fill in a supposed market niche for long-range cartridges and is offered as a competitor to the most common military NATO long-range service cartridges .338 Lapua Magnum and the .50 BMG.
The .338 Lapua is a BADASS super fast round too. It flys flatter and at 250-300 grains it puts people DOWN.
Quote:
Ballistic Coefficient of the Jamison 419-grain (27.2 g) projectile
Cheyenne Tactical claimed a Doppler radar-measured G1 ballistic coefficient (BC) for the Lost River Ballistic Technologies/Jamison International 419-grain (27.15 g) bullet of roughly 0.934, though this number has been disputed by a number of knowledgeable sources. Extreme Firearms claimed the G1 BC of the same .408 CheyTac projectile to average 0.945 to 2000 meters and it drops to the low 0.900s to 2800 meters.[6] The .408 CheyTac projectile remains supersonic up to 2,300 yards (2,100 m) according to Extreme Firearms. CheyTac LLC claims that the 26.95 gram (419 gr) projectile has a supersonic range of 2,200+ yards (2,011+ m) at 'standard air conditions'.[7] The average ballistic coefficient of the 419 grain (27.15 g) is 0.945 over 3,825 yards (3,500 m). Jamison International states the G1 BC of this bullet on their website currently (2009) at 0.940.
The above variations can be explained by differences in the ambient air density used for these BC statements or differing range-speed measurements on which the stated G1 BC averages are based. The BC changes during a projectiles flight and stated BC's are always averages for particular range-speed regimes. Some more explanation about the transient nature of a projectile's G1 BC (it rises above or gets under a stated average value for a certain speed-range regime) during flight can be found at the external ballistics article. This article implies that knowing how a BC was established is almost as important as knowing the stated BC value itself. Balanced-flight / controlled-spin projectile
Lost River Ballistic Technologies (statement of Mr. Warren Jensen) stated that "the .408 CheyTac is the first bullet/rifle system that utilizes what they call a balanced flight projectile. To achieve balanced flight the linear drag has to be balanced with the rotational drag to keep the very fine nose (meplat) of the bullet pointed directly into the oncoming air. It should result in very little precession and yaw at extreme range and allows accurate flight back through the transonic region. This is hard to achieve for small arms projectiles. Mathematically you are at a great disadvantage trying to achieve balanced flight with a lead core non mono metal bullet. The rotational mass/surface area ratio is too high."
The balanced flight projectile patent can be found at the US Patent Office, Controlled spin projectile, US PAT No. 6,629,669. According to the patent a projectile engraved and launched according to the teachings of the patented invention should decelerate from supersonic flight through transonic to subsonic in a stable and predictable manner effective to a range beyond 3000 yards (2,743 m). It implies that amongst several other preconditions the rifle barrel has to have specific rifling dimensions to achieve a desired amount of axial air drag on the bullets surface, which reduces the bullets spinrate to achieve balanced flight. The patent does not account for normally occurring differences in air density. More about balanced flight can also be found in the CheyTac Information Papers.[7]
The Balanced Flight/Controlled Spin Projectile bullet patent has been questioned/disputed by the German physicist Lutz Möller.[8] Mr. Möller realized balanced flight has to do with the nature of spin stabilized flight and scale of parameters. There were projectiles produced prior to the patent that remain stable through the transonic flight regime. This is a consequence of the spin deceleration and forward deceleration of the projectile being similar enough not to cause undesirable precession and yaw during the transonic flight phase. The main parameter for achieving stable transonic transition is controlling the drag coefficients (Cd) and forward velocity loss around Mach 1 and to a lesser degree controlling the spin deceleration. In other words, any bullet with appropriate drag behaviour around Mach 1 and mass (distribution) will do exactly what the balanced flight projectile patent states.

Ya I know about the .338 Lapua but that .408 is news to me. Thanks for the info . This is some very cool stuff!
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Aftermath
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/12
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Re: Post a pic of your stash box! [Re: withoutawire]
#16252881 - 05/19/12 02:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
withoutawire said: I shot 250 rounds through it. I was going to get a 1911 now I think im just going to get a second five-seven.

Get some AP ammo for that bad boy!
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