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InvisibleEgo Death
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Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you?
    #7498128 - 10/08/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The child that believed he could fly
grew into
a miserable old man that believes hes seen everything the world can offer.




I remember the inspiring joy felt in seeing a pig for the first time.

We create the joy and wonder, no matter how big your reality map gets - you still have the power to create any feeling.

People seek hallucinogens to show them the beauty within a carpet but it was always there they just trained themselves to forget.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no master - I just someone thats realized everyone has forgotten and reprogrammed themselves.


Exorcise:
Take a seemingly inanimate object and watch it / play with it until you become awestruck - the same as you were as a child.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7498159 - 10/08/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Has your logical mind become the rope that binds you? 

That and my mind in general. Programs all the way down.:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7498326 - 10/08/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's time to... Reboot!



Does anyone remember this show? I liked how their User programmed them different games for them to experience.


--------------------


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7498337 - 10/08/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The child that believed he could fly
Was found dead at the bottom of the fire escape
After falling 5 stories.

The child that knew flying was silly,
Lived to grow into an old man
Who created many things
And touched many lives.


--------------------


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Offlinevaportrail
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7498384 - 10/08/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No, it's all your fault.  And public education.

But really, it's funny because that's why I'm reading this forum, and my ropes are being untied faster these days. :smile:


--------------------
and the hippos were boiled in their tanks


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7498539 - 10/08/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The child that believed he could fly, but of course always knew this was a simple but rather pretty metaphor grew into an old (wo)man that had always cherished her inner self and never become alienated from her own experience. This child grew to live a life of accomplishment, balancing what Nietzsche called our Apollonian and Dionysian drives (reason and passion.)


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OfflineLion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7498551 - 10/08/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:laugh:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7498563 - 10/08/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
The child that believed he could fly
grew into
a miserable old man that believes hes seen everything the world can offer.




misery, is people with this attitude.  :thumbup:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7498607 - 10/08/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you?



Definitely.  :smirk:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Veritas]
    #7498614 - 10/08/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Veritas]
    #7498973 - 10/08/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You must consider that though you are anchored off, your bolts were already in place before you fastened the quick draws...before you even came along. So your points of protection are fixed in place. Wouldn't it make more sense to place your own protection where you decide instead of relying on some guy you don't know to define the route?



--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7499168 - 10/08/07 07:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Touche.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7499230 - 10/08/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How do you know that I'm not the "guy" who goes ahead of the group and places the bolts?  It's MY mountain, after all.  :smirk:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Veritas]
    #7499453 - 10/08/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I was following the illustration. Your illustration was taken from a sport route. Before the sport bolts were placed a trad climber made first ascent, defined the route and left. They don't set permanent bolts in the rock...they leave it untouched. Also...no one really owns the mountain :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7499649 - 10/08/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The child believed he could fly a plane into a building to better serve his God and attain happiness in the after-life.

The skeptic who was derided for not 'respecting' another's beliefs cleaned up the fucking mess left behind.


--------------------


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7499780 - 10/08/07 10:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, you sure took that one off on a tangent... and didn't even remotely comment of the content of the post you responded too. :tongue:

If you'll have another quick peruse, I'm sure you'll notice the emphasis on the kid realizing it was a METAPHOR. As is all mythology. As the creators of mythos realize, and morons with an agenda of social control later forget (and convince others to forget too, through threat of violence.)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7499828 - 10/08/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Tangent? Is this thread's title not an attack on rationality?

Please give me an honest and direct response. Do you think an Islamic child who questioned his cultural belief system would be as capable of commiting large-scale violence against innocents as one who fully accepted what he was taught? Yes or No.


--------------------


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7499946 - 10/08/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Please give you an honest and direct response? Your response to my post was a total diversion from the point I had been making, bringing in a rather unrelated example - one that usually leads to extremely irrational emotions on any side of the debate. This thread is not about the muslim faith or crashing planes into buildings. This example is pure pathos, attempting to prove your point by appealing to powerfully negative emotions. How rational is that? I'm not answering your question because it was not a topical response to the post you responded to. When you feel like making a topical response that actually relates to the point I was making, I'd be happy to discuss it.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, the post you responded to (mine) was not arguing against rationality. It was arguing for rationality through recognizing the purely symbolic nature of the human ability to fly or whatever other mythos one enjoys. Symbol: when something stands to represent a whole complex of ideas. Realizing this, it's perfectly possible to be utterly rational and still enjoy magical concepts. They aren't literal. Note: we are not entirely opposed to one another in this debate, we are closer to sharing views than not. Please make the effort to hear what I am saying before reacting.

And if we have to get on the whole muslim terrorism train, the whole situation is rather complex and cannot be explained by the simple reduction to a singular cause of fundamentalist religious beliefs, no matter how powerful and influential that element is.

If you are going to argue that this is not honest and direct, than you may wish to notice that your question is not honest or direct either. It is an extreme over simplification and demanding my end of the discourse be limited to a 'yes' or a 'no' purposely limits my capacity to respond. It is a weak mechanism of argument to make me appear to be avoidant in my answer even if I am more specific and more substantial than was asked of me. A question of such magnitude can NOT be reasonably answered with a 'yes' or 'no.' I'm not playing this silly game.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7499987 - 10/08/07 11:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nice try, NN. :congrats:

But let's look at what you wrote and see if my response was appropriate or not:

Quote:

The child that believed he could fly, but of course always knew this was a simple but rather pretty metaphor




A believer ALWAYS recognizes metaphor? The suicide bombers recognized the '42 Virgin' metaphor and The Creationist recognizes the 'Garden of Eden' metaphor and 'The Flood' metaphor?

And this happens ALWAYS? The child cannot be brain-washed? 90+% of ALL children adopt their parent's religion, what does that say about imprinting (and the dangers thereof)?


--------------------


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7500240 - 10/09/07 01:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that belief is always or even ever recognized as metaphor. I suggested an example of one hypothetical person (with much personal reference buried in it,) who chooses not to feel silly for the pleasurable metaphors they entertain and yet does not believe them to be literal. This is one possible way of bridging the false divide. I'm rather fond of Nietzsche's idea- that all human substance comes from passion (which is irrational) but that the rational part of us is what organizes and makes use of what would otherwise fly out of us randomly and purposelessly. This is not an unreasonable or irrational model of human experience. Take it or leave it, I was simply posing a third view.

Now you're welcome to continue to be as patronizing as you like, but my point still stands. You're going to have to try a little harder to really pose a challenge on this one.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7500998 - 10/09/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:arabs:  :popcorn:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7501275 - 10/09/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The child which believed it could fly had a brother. They are called the Wright Brothers.
Nowadays it becomes some pilot, usually.
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7502212 - 10/09/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tangent? Is this thread's title not an attack on rationality?




No, thats far too strong.

I'm suggesting regaining the joy and amazement of childhood through the realisation of what took that joy away.

I think this is quite rational considering happiness is my main life goal.


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Offlinerubixcubies
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7502369 - 10/09/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i know i can fly if i truly believe i can but always right before take off theres this voice that says are you sure? but then i no longer belive so it wont work anyway.


--------------------
i'm a very evolved ape you know.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: rubixcubies]
    #7502381 - 10/09/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i know i can fly if i truly believe i can

Can you see from your post why this is non-sense?:monkeydance: You can't know anything you haven't actually done.:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7502815 - 10/09/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can't know anything you haven't actually done.:crazy2:




I know that I'm gonna~ die....    :smirk:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7503023 - 10/09/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can't know anything you haven't actually done.:crazy2:




If this were true than I wouldn't know it was possible to run a marathon, eat haggis, or climb to the peak of a mountain. True, I don't know what it is like to do these things, but I know they are possible and have some sense of what they might feel like.

I've had many flying dreams that felt pretty realistic. I even have memories, in waking life, of the physical sensations I experienced in the dreams. It's incredible. This, of course, does not convince me that I can actually fly in any material or literal sense. But I'll take what I can get. :wink:

BTW, don't interpret this as a defense of the post you were responding to, just pointing out the flaw in your response. :tongue:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7504827 - 10/10/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If this were true than I wouldn't know it was possible to run a marathon, eat haggis, or climb to the peak of a mountain. True, I don't know what it is like to do these things, but I know they are possible and have some sense of what they might feel like.

I'm afraid I will have to disagree. You don't know that it is possible for you to run a marathon. You might "think" it is but that is something quite different. Same with everything else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7504850 - 10/10/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Radical empiricism :rockon:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7505120 - 10/10/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, Icelander let's pick a less daunting example. I know that I can drink bubble tea. I never have because it just doesn't look very appealing, but I know that if I wanted to I could leave my house right now, walk a few blocks and purchase a cup of bubble tea.:tongue: Just try and deny this. Are bubble tea supplies going to try up across the city as soon as I decide to try it?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7505135 - 10/10/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Bubble tea and haggis... :puke:


--------------------


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7505185 - 10/10/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yum! :sip:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7505197 - 10/10/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I know that I can drink bubble tea. I never have because it just doesn't look very appealing, but I know that if I wanted to I could leave my house right now, walk a few blocks and purchase a cup of bubble tea.




B-b-b-but, how do you know this?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7505203 - 10/10/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are bubble tea supplies going to try up across the city as soon as I decide to try it?

That's possible but more likely is a car accident, murder, brain aneurysm, etc. The fact remains that you may never be able to taste whatever that nasty sounding shit you are referring to no matter how much you THINK you can.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7505266 - 10/10/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: Wow, you're really pushing it but I see your point.

Here's what I do know - that whether or not I choose to taste it, I know that I will most likely have the opportunity to do so, assuming I live through the day.

Maybe at my next opportunity I will have a bubble tea in your honor.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7505296 - 10/10/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I had to push it because you're a little dense.:lol::heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Has your logical mind become the rope that bounds you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7506433 - 10/10/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Flirtation through insult?


--------------------


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