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InvisibleIcelander
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The Virus
    #7495002 - 10/07/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What do Aids/HIV and SPAM have in common? They both act in similar Virus type ways. As the human immune system attacks the Aids virus the virus mutates to avoid destruction and so continue on it's merry way.

SPAMMERS, in the same fashion seek to outdo the folk trying to shut them down by continually evolving or mutating their tactics on the Web.

I heard on NPR about a Aids researcher who is studying how SPAM works on the Web to help him understand how the aids virus reacts in the human system.

What this gets me thinking on is how similar our actions are to other basic life forms so often. It confirms for me the suspicion that we are not special or superior to any other part of nature in any physical or spiritual way. I think we are just another part of the web of life and no different in any major way. We just like to tell ourselves we are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495032 - 10/07/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Do we really know the true nature of basic life forms? Are our actions similar because our natures are similar, or because nature uses simple patterns to reach complex results?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495037 - 10/07/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are our actions similar because our natures are similar, or because nature uses simple patterns to reach complex results?

I am guessing yes to both.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495078 - 10/07/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What evidence do you have that our spiritual nature is the same as a unique plant or a dog? We can compare, but this is always dualistic and artificial. How can we really know, outside of our perceptions, the true nature of another being?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495090 - 10/07/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Sure, I'm just guessing from my personal experience and ruminations.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495104 - 10/07/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I understand, it was just this:

Quote:

It confirms for me the suspicion that we are not special or superior to any other part of nature in any physical or spiritual way.




That sounded less of a guess than an affirmation of truth. As Robert Anton Wilson says, the Universe contains a maybe  :thumbup:  :peace:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495162 - 10/07/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's why I said this;suspicion. I, like Anton, am sure of nothing but have many suspicions.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495225 - 10/07/07 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I do wonder why you used the metaphors of AIDS and SPAM though, two things that humans strongly dislike - and then compared us to them. Is that suppose to shock us, or make us view ourselves as perverted?

I guess you just used them to make us rethink the possibility there could be any more spiritual purpose for us being here, I suppose.


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Offlineonlynow
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pardon my spam [Re: Icelander]
    #7495261 - 10/07/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495356 - 10/07/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I do wonder why you used the metaphors of AIDS and SPAM though, two things that humans strongly dislike - and then compared us to them. Is that suppose to shock us, or make us view ourselves as perverted?

I guess you just used them to make us rethink the possibility there could be any more spiritual purpose for us being here, I suppose.




As I said I heard it on NPR.  You may view aids as perverted but I do not. It's just another life form doing it's thing. You certainly are a suspicious dude. Do my posts make you nervous?:satansmoking:

Yes my point is that it  might be that we only believe that we are very different or that there is a special purpose in being human, because we are insecure and have weak ego structures. When in actuality we are just another life form eking out an existence and doomed to parish and be for ever gone like everything else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495376 - 10/07/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I do wonder why you used the metaphors of AIDS and SPAM though, two things that humans strongly dislike - and then compared us to them. Is that suppose to shock us, or make us view ourselves as perverted?

I guess you just used them to make us rethink the possibility there could be any more spiritual purpose for us being here, I suppose.




As I said I heard it on NPR.  You may view aids as perverted but I do not. It's just another life form doing it's thing. You certainly are a suspicious dude. Do my posts make you nervous?:satansmoking:

Yes my point is that it  might be that we only believe that we are very different or that there is a special purpose in being human, because we are insecure and have weak ego structures. When in actuality we are just another life form eking out an existence and doomed to parish and be for ever gone like everything else.




Aids is not a perversion in the absolute sense, but might you agree that it is a perversion of human health? Why associate our very life force with something that is damaging to us - it sounds like you have issues with your personal worth.

I'm sorry for being so suspicious, didn't mean to pry on your inner motivations or your frame of mind when you posted this - after all, these posts really mean nothing and the thoughts we communicate have nothing to do with what we actually believe of course :crazy2:

Quote:

When in actuality we are just another life form eking out an existence and doomed to parish and be for ever gone like everything else.




does this idea make you nervous? or does it make you feel secure?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495390 - 10/07/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

And now I have to admit that any further discussion in this thread between me and Icelander will mostly be projecting

Edit: In fact, most of what I did in that post up there is project. Icelander said what he was thinking and I attached those things to his character. If I would remake that post I would have simply said I don't think it's pragmatically useful to see ourselves as a Virus or similar to one... it could turn people off from doing some spiritual work on themselves.


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Edited by EternalCowabunga (10/07/07 05:57 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495491 - 10/07/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

but might you agree that it is a perversion of human health?

I disagree again. More like humans getting out of balance with their health.

it sounds like you have issues with your personal worth.


If by this do you mean that I over value my importance in an egotistical way, then no.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495498 - 10/07/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

it could turn people off from doing some spiritual work on themselves.


Quite the opposite IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495516 - 10/07/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If the point of your post was that it is only important for us to survive, then I disagree. I think it is also important to work on our characters, and grow spiritually. It's the difference between growing up and growing old.

Now I guess it would be hard to argue whether this spiritual growth were just revised strategies for surviving or something more... important. Weird, I just got dejavu again.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495543 - 10/07/07 06:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Funny, I think I'm starting to see the motivation behind our posts. Yours is to get people thinking about humbling their egoic self importance and mine is about seeing the importance of going beyond the ego.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495553 - 10/07/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

But the posts can only be viewed from an ego... unless we can see them from different perspectives.. interesting stuff happening on this forum


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495588 - 10/07/07 06:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Funny, I think I'm starting to see the motivation behind our posts. Yours is to get people thinking about humbling their egoic self importance and mine is about seeing the importance of going beyond the ego.


Right. :thumbup:

I believe the search for truth (our best idea of what that is) is what spiritual growth is all about. The spiritual challenge here of course would be to adjust your beliefs to fit your best conclusions rather than trying to make reality adjust to your personal comfort zone.

I myself don't know what the truth is but I do encourage myself and others here to actively look for it and when they believe they have found it to search their conscience in an effort to accept what seems to be real, always checking in as to whether they are avoiding the things that scare them or seem unpleasant and so creating a false but comfortable belief system.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/07/07 06:16 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495605 - 10/07/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)


But the posts can only be viewed from an ego... unless we can see them from different perspectives.. interesting stuff happening on this forum


Indeed. I believe an ego is a good thing if it is healthy and strong. Unfortunately, IMO, culture does not support strong egos. Just scared inflated ones.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495633 - 10/07/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes... it's important to question our belief system
are we important? maybe
are we here to do more than survive? maybe
do we have the same worth as AIDS - depends on the context, and how you define your own worth and the worth of aids and where you are in life and what the word worth evokes in you


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495640 - 10/07/07 06:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

lol.. i have learned something hilarious and insightful today

thank you, icelander :mushroom2::psychsplit::heart:

and thanks to me! oops, down ego, down!


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Edited by EternalCowabunga (10/07/07 06:38 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495670 - 10/07/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
yes... it's important to question our belief system
are we important? maybe
are we here to do more than survive? maybe
do we have the same worth as AIDS - depends on the context, and how you define your own worth and the worth of aids and where you are in life and what the word worth evokes in you




sure:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7495703 - 10/07/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Icelander, have you made a thread about us being like viruses before and only I responded to you? And in that thread I asked you this question? And I was like "I'm having crazy dejavu right now"?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495746 - 10/07/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I may have brought this up in the past based on the movie the Matrix.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7495827 - 10/07/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You have missed the whole point of this thread. Icey is in Stage III and may not be with us much longer. :cryariver: He is saying good-bye.

Try to see behind the words.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7497272 - 10/08/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Fucker! I wanted to announce that myself. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497304 - 10/08/07 12:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I can delete my post if that is your last wish...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Virus [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7497313 - 10/08/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

He'd better save his last wish for something more exciting.  :naughty:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7497314 - 10/08/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You're close. Can you delete your user account?:hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: Veritas]
    #7497319 - 10/08/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
He'd better save his last wish for something more exciting.  :naughty:




My last wish is to be laughing and mean it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497323 - 10/08/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Rent a comedy tonight.  :wink:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497347 - 10/08/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What this gets me thinking on is how similar our actions are to other basic life forms so often. It confirms for me the suspicion that we are not special or superior to any other part of nature in any physical or spiritual way.  I think we are just another part of the web of life and no different in any major way. We just like to tell ourselves we are.




:yesnod:

and many others will spend their whole lives never understanding this


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497357 - 10/08/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're close. Can you delete your user account?:hellfire:




You and I know who truly has the higher post count, yet I let you have the illusion of being closer to the Void.

THAT is friendship! :yesnod:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7497359 - 10/08/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yep. But the real question and IMO important to emotional and spiritual growth, is WHY don't they want to acknowledge this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497393 - 10/08/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's because they never think too.

with sports, television, central heat/air, cars and planes to take them anywhere, church, beer, and the titty bar down the road, who needs to think about anything else?

we have millions of distractions, and because of how our species and its societies has evolved, there are thousands of jobs a person can do which each has its own distractions, so on and so forth


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7497398 - 10/08/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

W-where is the titty bar? :whoah:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Virus [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7497407 - 10/08/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You're in Vegas and you need to ask demius where to find a titty bar?  :lol:  :rofl:  :rofl2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Virus [Re: Veritas]
    #7497424 - 10/08/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I thought we didn't mention hometowns? :nono:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Virus [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7497437 - 10/08/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If your hometown has a population in excess of 100,000, it is is OK to mention it.  :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: Veritas]
    #7497538 - 10/08/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This guy has some serious enemies and now it will be no problem for them (her, the ex) to KILL BILL!:whoa:

He's right though, not nice to mention locals.:nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7497539 - 10/08/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
I think it's because they never think too.

with sports, television, central heat/air, cars and planes to take them anywhere, church, beer, and the titty bar down the road, who needs to think about anything else?

we have millions of distractions, and because of how our species and its societies has evolved, there are thousands of jobs a person can do which each has its own distractions, so on and so forth




Lets try and look deeper. Why the need for all the distractions?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineshakercee
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497572 - 10/08/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So that the mind does not worry about the G. Reaper..:grin:


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


Edited by shakercee (10/08/07 01:34 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: shakercee]
    #7497895 - 10/08/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's what I believe. Our personality structure is such that it seems to need to believe in it's continuation otherwise it experiences anxiety , which of course it seeks to relieve. Much of what is done in life is in service to relief of this anxiety, including I believe religion and the craving for power over others and the environment. I often wonder what humanity would be like and what it's goals for living would be if death did not create this state of insecurity?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7497926 - 10/08/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

a large part of it has to do with the our 'advancement' over other species, because lots of animals are aware of death.  whether or not this translates to them understanding that all life is not constant...who knows :shrug: but few other animals (if any) react towards awareness of death as we do


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7498173 - 10/08/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's hard to say if other animals are aware of death. What death actually constitutes.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The Virus [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7498715 - 10/08/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What if that virus you deem one, was you?


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7498737 - 10/08/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's hard to say if other animals are aware of death. What death actually constitutes.




I've seen videos of primates (Chimps or Bonobos) that would nurse a sick child, and lay around with it, checking on it ever so often, until it died. Then, when it died, the mother carried it down to the others, marked as relatives through behavioral patterns, who guarded it, and only allowed relatives, including the young, to see it


wolves and other dogs will do about the same, staying by a companion's side and then remaining with it for some time after it has died

other animals are most definitely aware of death


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7498751 - 10/08/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They are aware of death, but is it the same thing as being aware of their own death?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: demiu5]
    #7498756 - 10/08/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

this has been a good read between ice and eternalcowabunga


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channel your inner Larry David


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: The Virus [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7498761 - 10/08/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
They are aware of death, but is it the same thing as being aware of their own death?




who's to say? that's not necessarily visible in behaviors in us, so how could we see that in others? hell, I don't think at least one fourth of the people on this planet are aware that they will die


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Virus [Re: Icelander]
    #7501090 - 10/09/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I know of death, so it has no power to make me anxious :wink:
Exploring death to it's limits will make it loose it's negative power over everyone.

Same with everything that makes us anxious.

But it's true, that existential-anxiety has psychotically engraved into humankind over the centuries... it's ever good to get rid of, to enjoy life to it's fullest and having no worries about 'failures' but accept them as a chance to learn...

I think, social pressure is that, what causes the most angst in humans and hinders them acting freely to their selves in a healthy way.

Society is the cell of the bacterium. The human is the healthy mitochondrion :smile: Or society is the body, while each human is a cell.

Or ant and hive. Are you lucky enough to be born in a peacful ant tribe or into a war tribe ? Does that force one into being that, too ?

I vote to free the mitochondria, cell, ant, to give it power back on the cell, body, hive !
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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