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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
    #7495015 - 10/07/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This is apparently another online urban myth. :shrug:  None of the research I've read has shown any such effects of fluoridated tap water.  The sites that propagate these myths rarely link to any research, and their documentation links are often circular.


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
    #7495036 - 10/07/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Getting to mars takes a long time right now. Not with NERVA, though. Yeah, forgot about NERVA, huh? We'd be using it now, if not for a bunch of beatniks who think that anything nuclear is evil. Let's just forget the fact that nuclear reactions can be made almost completely safe with the right failsafes and that pretty much every nuclear disaster in HISTORY has been the result of human negligence or shitty design. We built a nuclear rocket decades back and never used it. Even though it has a thrust and specific impulse that makes the chemical rockets we're STILL using look like toys (which is really what they are. They can barely get us off the fucking planet). If the government would just ignore the idiots and adopt the nuclear rocket, the solar system would be wide open. The nuclear part of the engine practically never needs refueling, the actual propellant (hydrogen) can be found in the atmosphere of practically every planet in our system, and even if you can't get any you can really substitute it for any gas, it's just the most efficient. Nuclear space craft are to chemical what propeller boats were to sailboats.

So getting around is not a real issue, even with our current technology. Granted, the solar system is just a speck on the galaxy, but it is more than enough to stave off over population for a few centuries.

And you say don't even talk about other planets. Why? Because it won't happen in your lifetime. Probably not. Maybe so. Who knows? But it WILL, without a doubt, happen. If humans don't die out, we will go to other planets - hell, we can do it with non ftl travel. A bussard ramscoop ship could get people to another solar system. If you make it eficient enough and can get it up to high c-fractionals, then you don't even have to have cold sleep to keep the passengers alive, you can make the trip in a few brief seconds. And eventually the technology for FTL will come as well, and we will open the galaxy and then the universe. It's not even that hard to imagine it happening from our current technology. People just don't like to think about it, don't want to act on it, because it is a large task. So they call it impossible.

Oh, and I remember someone said that they didn't think terraforming was a viable option. Wtf? Lol. It's an entirely mechanical and basically understood process. I'm sure there'll be surprises and difficulties along the way, but that's how it's been with every innovation we have made. We'll conquer it, and we'll get it done. Again, if nanotech comes through it'll be a cinch. Just drop a packet of self replicators on the planet, give them a year or so to breed up a few trillion billion or so of their fellows (hehe) and then set them to freeing the water vapor and other greenhouse materials from Mars' soil. With nanotech it'd be a quickie easy job, as far as such lofty goals go, and it'd still be possible without.

And China's solution to overpopulation is to come into the hospital and kill newborn children because they're the second. I mean, that's not exxageration; they pretty commonly just kill the kids. It's not a matter of you broke the one child law and now we're going to fine you, it's you can't have but one child so we're shooting this one up with an overdose of rat poison. Yeah, really good solution. If you're going to kill people to reduce the population, start a fucking war. At least a nice world war would give technology the kickstart it needs. The next one's going into space for sure, since space is the easiest place to intercept nukes (the lack of atmosphere's very nice for lasers). Thanks to China's "solution," thousands of Chinese parents (or millions, who knows, there's buckoos of them) are going to kill their girl children this year so that they can have another who might be a boy. After all, you don't waste your one child alottment on a girl, do you? Sure, it'll fix their problem eventually by wiping out their race when they've got such a high portion of men to women that they cannot effectively continue and their closeminded society prevents them from allowing outsiders in to help them, but that's thousands of potentially hot arse asian chicks being killed every year! MADNESS! Lol.


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OfflineAJ4U Happy Birthday!
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495048 - 10/07/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I wish i could write such a long reply /sigh

Remba rapin to the hard to hard never knew hip hop would take it this far

Fuck my coke ramblings good thing this shit dont get me hooked muahahaha


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
    #7495065 - 10/07/07 04:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I seriously think we are very near the tipping point. I reckon within the next 5-10 years something very devastating is going to happen, whether its political, environmental or extraterrestrial, something bad is going to happen.

I'm not one of those 2012 nuts, or anything, but something is not right.

The world is getting progressively sicker, the mentality of our people is getting progressively sicker, and the powers that be are gaining more and more power.

A few thousand years ago there was balance.. but our unsustainable western lifestyles have tipped the scale.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495073 - 10/07/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yoruyonaka said:
And China's solution to overpopulation is to come into the hospital and kill newborn children because they're the second. I mean, that's not exxageration; they pretty commonly just kill the kids. It's not a matter of you broke the one child law and now we're going to fine you, it's you can't have but one child so we're shooting this one up with an overdose of rat poison. Yeah, really good solution. If you're going to kill people to reduce the population, start a fucking war. At least a nice world war would give technology the kickstart it needs. The next one's going into space for sure, since space is the easiest place to intercept nukes (the lack of atmosphere's very nice for lasers). Thanks to China's "solution," thousands of Chinese parents (or millions, who knows, there's buckoos of them) are going to kill their girl children this year so that they can have another who might be a boy. After all, you don't waste your one child alottment on a girl, do you? Sure, it'll fix their problem eventually by wiping out their race when they've got such a high portion of men to women that they cannot effectively continue and their closeminded society prevents them from allowing outsiders in to help them, but that's thousands of potentially hot arse asian chicks being killed every year! MADNESS! Lol.




wow you're close-mindedness is almost astounding
there are plenty of Chinese parents who have multiple children
and it is totally legal
as long as you can afford it the Chinese government allows it

there is a new law stating that if you have an income above a certain "line" you are allowed to have multiple children, although you have to pay a fee (kind of)

this new laws denies poorer Chinese families to have multiple children
which means less children living below the poverty line
and more Chinese children living above the poverty line where they can actually find food to eat


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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinecurtdj
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495082 - 10/07/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yoruyonaka said:
If you're going to kill people to reduce the population, start a fucking war. At least a nice world war would give technology the kickstart it needs. The next one's going into space for sure, since space is the easiest place to intercept nukes (the lack of atmosphere's very nice for lasers).




I agree. What we need is a space laser war!


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"You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it."
- Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936)

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- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
    #7495108 - 10/07/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, btw.  If we are gonna just wipe out a lot of the population to fix the problem (a true shame, I say, b/c that'd delay our exodus from Earth for god only knows how long) I say we go with a zombie virus.  You know, that just has so much damn appeal, and it's more or less guaranteed to wipe out the larger part of the population.  You just gotta make the original phase (probably a gas) have a long incubation, and drop the initial bombs on military and gov facilities to ensure that there's no quick coordinated response.  But that'd be totally badass, anyway.  It'd be such a great evolutionary event, as well.  As long as you're going to kill off the bulk of the population, you might as well get rid of the dead weight, those who cannot protect and provide for themselves, who have no idea how to fight or use arms.  Such people, entirely dependant on the system, would not be much of a loss in the first place.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd feel bad for them, but I'd rather something that at least somewhat targets the useless than a virus which targets at random. 

It'd probably be easy to design, too.  Something that fucks with the internal clock (forgot what it's called - the little pea sized git near the front of your brain that tells time), maybe destroys it, so that people cannot remember or learn.  Then something that overstimulates the production of adrenaline and any other agressive hormones, to the point where the infected are on what ammounts to a constant speed trip.  Add to that an interruptor that confuses the signals from the stomach which tells the brain that it is full (again, can't remember what the chemical's called, but I do remember that there are people who have a disease that does a similar thing, makes them feel desperately hungry so that they have to eat all day long).  And last but not least a mechanism to transmit the package through bodily fluids.  All together I think that makes a nice and tidy zombie.  Could probably be done using bits and pieces of viruses that we have on ice.  You end up with something that has no awareness of time, a constant hunger, and is extremely stimulated at all times.  The hunger will turn the stimulation to anger, the lack of time awareness will remove any opportunity for remorse or learning (smart zombies is something we could not have - they might actually wipe out the race) not to mention making the thing act on its first impulse (which would always be hunger).  I think, all together, very doable with modern tech. 

And think of all the glorious target practice :laugh:  I'd hit up a walmart first, bust out the back wall and raid that ammunition room they have in the back, then head towards the coast.  Steal a semi or something and hit every gun shop you pass.  Then go to Harkers' Island, raise the bridge, find survivors, kill what infected are there, then sit back and wait for the whole thing to boil over.  All the fish in the world for food, no worries, could really go out and attack or raid at your disgression.  It'd be a blast, assuming I didn't lose anyone important to me (both parents and step dad were in military, brother is a hunter and a great shot, so I'm not super worried). 

Anyway, I figure that'd be the best way to just knock down the population if you're really worried about it.  It's something that any or the younger people here (those who are still of the age where they could go to college and get a new degree) who are moderately intelligent could probably accomplish, if they wish.  But, hey, if you do, how about email me first so that I can go ahead and start stockpiling :laugh:


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Invisiblewps
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495144 - 10/07/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

as I said in another thread,

I think the solution to overpopulation is to force people to actually TAKE CARE of the children they create.

If people had to actually take care of their kids, with their own money, they might not have so many.

Right now, we have public schools funded by the taxes of those who may or may not have kids. If I don't have kids, why am I paying for someone else's kids to go to school? I didn't get any of that pussy! Bullshit. Also, there are tax breaks for parents. WTF? If anything, people who have kids should be taxed MORE, for they are putting more of a burden on society with their indiscriminate breeding.

Finally, I'm tired of the excuses people use to just 'write off' their children. "Oh, Johnny got caught smokin pot, he's cut off..."

Naw, bitch. If there's a problem with your kid, its your problem. You are responsible. People have all these kids, don't raise them right, and then cut them off because their kids didn't turn out how they wanted. Fuckin bullshit. Just cuz you caught your kid smokin pot (or he's gay, or a democrat, or whatever) doesn't give you an excuse to shirk your responsibility to pay for their education.

just my .02


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495151 - 10/07/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

lol.  I'm not close minded.  I'm actually rather open minded - when it gets right down to it, I'm good for pretty much anything.  I would rather that our race perseveres, but I probably won't ever know.  I'm not super familiar with Chinese law, but when did the new one come about?  And what was the old one before it?  I might be a bit behind the times on their legal system, but even so the "new" law is still crap.  People are still killing their girl children.  I mean, hell, a poor person would have even less use for a chick - no offense, but woman's strength isn't really strength.  They don't make great farmers, and that is what a poor chinese rice farmer wants, is a child who can run his farm and care for him in his old age.  The Chinese gov't is selling a right they don't own - it might help the problem in the short term (though probably not - last time I checked their population was still increasing at a massive rate) but it won't last in the long. 

And lasers will probably have very little application once you get to actual war in space.  They're only really good for interdicting missiles - lasers are like the dirks of space.  Outside of one light second against a maneuvering opponent they are more or less useless.  Missiles, on the other hand, can continue to home in on that enemy.  So you hold off a few light seconds, launch salvos of missiles, interdict them with your own lasers (called "point defense") and whoever gets swamped first dies.  Or, if you think you don't have much chance you do a high velocity run, get too close and too fast for the enemy to hit you with missiles, pass right through them and lease the lasers, and see which force is a pile of floating scrap after a second or so of fighting.  Heh.  But the Earth is a tiny area to protect in the terms of space warfare.  It wouldn't be too hard of a feat to put up a network of lasers which can take out ICBMs in the vacuum of space.  If we've made lasers which can shoot dowm missiles in atmosphere (which we have, though I'm sure you've read about it, they're mounting them on C-130's I think) then we can pretty easily take them down in space :laugh:


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OfflineSheepish
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495160 - 10/07/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Btw, I hate Al Gore. I think he's just another politician tool.
Only problem I have with nuclear is the waste. Find a way to eradicate nuclear waste (don't just bury it somewhere and call it someone else's problem) and I might be ok with it.
I also hate mankind, hence my lack of interest in saving it. :wink:


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495179 - 10/07/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yoruyonaka said:
lol. I'm not close minded. I'm actually rather open minded - when it gets right down to it, I'm good for pretty much anything. I would rather that our race perseveres, but I probably won't ever know. I'm not super familiar with Chinese law, but when did the new one come about? And what was the old one before it? I might be a bit behind the times on their legal system, but even so the "new" law is still crap. People are still killing their girl children. I mean, hell, a poor person would have even less use for a chick - no offense, but woman's strength isn't really strength. They don't make great farmers, and that is what a poor chinese rice farmer wants, is a child who can run his farm and care for him in his old age. The Chinese gov't is selling a right they don't own - it might help the problem in the short term (though probably not - last time I checked their population was still increasing at a massive rate) but it won't last in the long.





well i am a Chinese citizen and i am all for the "new" law
that means my nephew can have a sister
and not all chinese families want only boys!
that's just stupid talk
only families living in poverty and use agriculture as their means of income want boys
because boys are better used as farmers
but that definitely does not mean girls are looked down upon

it's really funny what kinds of stereotypical views people hold towards Chinese people
but i don't blame them
China just recently opened up to the rest of the world
it's no wonder the rest of the world barely knows anything about China


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495181 - 10/07/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You don't have to pay those taxes you know :laugh:  There are places with no taxes (plenty of deserted islands :laugh:).  Of course, the same taxes that pay for the schools also pay for the roads and the protection and the thousands of little programs here and there which make the standard of living of our poorest people something which a king of the middle ages would be envious of. 

Fact is, ppl'd keep on having children.  Condoms are inconvenient and ruin the fun.  Most people just don't think of the future, and punishing their children for it isn't going to change me.  Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop all of the welfare programs (at least those that protect people capable of working, which'd be most of them.  I'm cool with the gov't paying the way of those too crippled to help themselves.  I just don't like the bums living off of the system) and put them into something more worthwhile like space research or updating our infrastructure or bringing all the school systems up to the same level.  But you don't fuck the kids because the parents were idiots.  That only makes more idiot parents to breed more mongrel hordes.  Instead you turn the children into intelligent beings who are smart enough to realize that kids are going to REALLY crimp their fun and their wallets and so only have one or two at a time, or however many they can effectively support.


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495209 - 10/07/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I wasn't talking about the rich people, really. And I was using crass mechanical interpretations of the situation b/c that's what everyone else here was doing - being frank and down to earth. A girl child can be a benefit to a wealthy family because they bring alliance through marriage. But still, Chinese society looks more kindly upon boys, from everything I've seen. I'm not Chinese (and why do you put your location as Californication if you're in China? Anyway, really great adaptation to the language, most Chinese speakers I have seen have trouble w/ English type), but I have known enough of them and asked them straight out and their opinion was that the society placed higher values on boys. Of course that is changing, b/c China is modernizing, but it's not really modern yet. I mean, hell, you guys are still saying you're communist even though the government is embracing capitalism with open arms where it suits them. China still has a ways to go. And killing newborns is never a good solution. Dunno if they still do that under the new law, but then I don't think the government ever actually admitted to it under the old one, did they?


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495224 - 10/07/07 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yoruyonaka said:
I wasn't talking about the rich people, really. And I was using crass mechanical interpretations of the situation b/c that's what everyone else here was doing - being frank and down to earth. A girl child can be a benefit to a wealthy family because they bring alliance through marriage. But still, Chinese society looks more kindly upon boys, from everything I've seen. I'm not Chinese (and why do you put your location as Californication if you're in China? Anyway, really great adaptation to the language, most Chinese speakers I have seen have trouble w/ English type), but I have known enough of them and asked them straight out and their opinion was that the society placed higher values on boys. Of course that is changing, b/c China is modernizing, but it's not really modern yet. I mean, hell, you guys are still saying you're communist even though the government is embracing capitalism with open arms where it suits them. China still has a ways to go. And killing newborns is never a good solution. Dunno if they still do that under the new law, but then I don't think the government ever actually admitted to it under the old one, did they?




I live in California now
and thank you
i hope my English is pretty good

yeah
boys are considered to be the foundation of the family
i myself disagree
for a family you need two equally important factors, the father and the mother

and yes
the killing of the newborns is true
but it's not nationwide
it's only done in some provinces
other provinces refuse to do it and instead put babies up for adoption

there are huge adoption clinics where foreigners can adopt children
it's pretty sad because the older ones usually don't get adopted


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: meatcakeman]
    #7495270 - 10/07/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

China outta run in and "save" Darfur so they can "help" them by repopulating them with Chinese people. That'd be pretty slick. You could wipe out the guys attacking them in the process and have two countries worth to repopulate. 'Twould be a nice stopgap.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495287 - 10/07/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i'll be sure to send them a memo

haha


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大开眼界

:awegroove:
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: meatcakeman]
    #7495354 - 10/07/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

First of all, this thread is full of selfish and morbid comments, and unrealistic solutions that are based upon hypothesis that have never been proven.

But the bottom line is, yes our world will become overpopulated within a several hundred years if things continue as they are. But our world is not overpopulated now. The problem at this point is not so much the population, it is our exploitation of resources. There is more than enough to support twice of the world's present population if agriculture and economy was under ideal conditions. If you really care about this, then become a vegan and get back to nature and stop supporting so much technology. That's it. You can talk about nature doing this and nature doing that, but the present technological way of life works against nature. And even if we spread out to other planets, with this way of life we would soon rape the planet quickly just like this one.

We have done more damage to this planet in the last 200 years than in all of previous human history combined. Think about it.


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OfflineYoruyonaka
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7495447 - 10/07/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey, somebody's gotta take advantage of that situation.  And China's gotten kinda burned for turning a blind eye to the situation lately.  What better way to remedy that than going in as the brave rescuers and liberating the population :laugh:  I mean, hell, I bet they could find reasons to liberate just about every country in africa.  It's a pretty fucked up place.  And, with the digging of a few massive interior channels and great lakes, it could be made into a pretty fertile place :laugh: 

Lol.  Anyway.  Oh, I seem to remember someone saying something about the problem of getting rid of nuclear waste.  Ummmm duh?  You're in a nuclear rocket ship.  Dump it in the sun.  Throw it out of the solar system.  Drop it on pluto or one of the other planetoids out on the edges.  Go ahead and collect up the rest of the nuclear waste while you're at it (even though it is not really a risk considering that it is well kept and protected) and throw that away somewhere too.  I can guarantee you the sun won't care; might even give us an extra hundredth of a millisecond or so before the sun runs out of fuel and we all die :laugh:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Yoruyonaka]
    #7495463 - 10/07/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Uhm... what? How are you going to dump nuclear waste into the SUN? And I'm pretty sure the rest of the universe doesn't want us dumping our nuclear waste into space. Pretty sure it's not very well kept and protected on earth in the first place either.

IMO we don't even have any business being in space in the first place until we get our act together here.


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OfflineAJ4U Happy Birthday!
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
    #7495466 - 10/07/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I wonder what kinda chemical reactions would take on radioactive or any chemical in space


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