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clemens
Lover



Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4,303
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Overpopulation is a problem but is life about the whole or the individual?
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 Take it easy dude, but take it!
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: clemens]
#7494901 - 10/07/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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well without the whole would there be an individual?
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
#7494908 - 10/07/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not the point of this thread.. but fluoride is not good for you nor your teeth. They lied to you. It's actually a neurotoxin and damages the brain and central nervous system and is linked to a wide variety of mental illnesses and various diseases.
But yeah.. people need to die.
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AJ4U
Cloud N9ne



Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 5,609
Loc: Dirty Jersey
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494923 - 10/07/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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If theres one thing iv learned from the past its that life is just one big circle and
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens


Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: bukkake]
#7494927 - 10/07/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said: Fluoride causes cancer.
Dude ur mother causes cancer
pwned.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494933 - 10/07/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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carrying capacity...
food web....
parabolas...
i think iv made my point.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494935 - 10/07/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The research on fluoride is far from conclusive, and has been exaggerated to the extreme by many "natural health" (read: internet hype) sites. Check into this before you spread the word.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Veritas]
#7494940 - 10/07/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've checked. Fluoride is bad. It certainly does not help prevent cavities.
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Yoruyonaka
Stranger
Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: bukkake]
#7494944 - 10/07/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah and China's doing a real good job. Lol.
This is a silly issue. If it makes you feel better, avian flu is supposed to make the black death look like the common cold within the next few decades. Myself, I'd much rather we stopped such disasters. You are all so sure that we are doomed; that is the most common fallacy of the oh-so-high-minded philosophy of the masses. It is so easy to forecast gloom and doom, but much harder to see a way through our issues and find a solution. Luckily the naysayers never rouse themselves to get involved in the process, leaving the way for visionaries to fix our race's blunders and clear its path.
Oh, and before I address the actual issue (where to dump our population) let me address the whole "raping the land" thing. Lol. First, the Earth really won't give a fuck if she goes into another ice age. She's been through plenty of them in her long lifetime; it is part of the circle of life. You would call a man made ice age unnatural (assuming it is man made - it's funny how people always forget that water vapor is the most important contributor to global warming whereas co2 is a small factor). Like it or not, what we do is natural - we are a part of nature, of god, of existence. To do something unnatural, one must step outside of nature - we aren't quite capable of doing that. You have to be a, well, God. Heh. Oh, and for pollution - the US is working to reduce ours, China is pledging to build more dirty plants than exist in the whole rest of the world within the next few years, making them by far the largest contributor to global warming. Al Gore (who I am sure from the comments I see is a personal hero so some of you - lol, he finally got someone to pay attention to his sorry ass) wholeheartedly supports this decision and believes that the first world should cut their pollution, beggaring its citizens, while the third world makes the problem worse than it has ever been. Lol. Gotta love hypocrites.
I say we realize that we are just polluters; it's in our nature. The cavemen did it too - one of the biggest sources of info about them is the giant trash heaps they left everywhere they went. Let's give up the futile hope of beating out nature by stopping polution and find ways to remove the effects harmlessly. Innovation is also in our nature; use the tools you have. I'd suggest highly developed nanotech - that's kinda a cureall for the world's problems. Send out trillions of self replicating bots into the atmosphere, physically grab the co2 and excess water vapor and sulfur and whatever other gasses are out of balance and convert them into something else useful that's not polluting like, I dunno, food. Or hell, just bury them back in the ground.
Now on to overpopulation. Dhur. Let's see. First, we're nowhere near overpopulated. We don't use a lot of our planet. And no, that's not because the land is no good, it's because humans as a group tend to cluster together. The larger our cities get, the more people will move out into the empty spaces to supply them, and eventually we will reach capacity. It's probably above ten billion though. Then, let's see. We've got Mars, a relatively easy planet to terraform. I mean, there's oceans of water frozen as permafrost just below the surface, all the elements you need, it just needs an ozone. As terraforming goes, it's a perfect subject; just needs a few thousand automated smut factories to kick start the planet, maybe bring in a few hundred larger mineral laden comets from the asteroid belt to make up for what it's missing (just build a big arse rail gun out there and shoot them at it - planets tend to make easy targets). Then we've got can habitats, which we would really be capable of building to some degree with today's technology. Certainly we could get a real one up in the sky in no more than a few decades, if we actually gave the space program more than the pennies in the bottom of the government's pocket. Hopefully the fact that the moon is blanketed with a fusion fuel worth about a billion dollars per ton will re-start the space race somewhere in the near future Anyway, can habs provide an almost unlimited ability for expansion of the population - they offer a high interior surface area of artificial gravity and planetary conditions. They could very easily be self suficient or even profitable.
Then there's the fact that we have a universe that is infinite for all that we can understand (yeah, not really, but we won't be able to reach or understand the edges until we have evolved to quasi-gods, so let's just act like it's limitless). There are, logically, millions of habitable planets just within our own galaxy. God only knows how many there are like Mars, perfect candidates for terraforming. There's several loopholes that allow for crossing a light year in less than a light year, even if you can't really go faster than the speed of light. The alcubierre warp, the warp gate, a few others. Nothing we can do yet, but something we can understand. I mean, hell, we've come up with plenty of things in the last hundred years which would have been incomprehensible at the turn of the last century. We know all the elements and processes we need to travel faster than light and open up limitless space for man right now, it's just a matter of aquiring them. And, lucky us, recent research has suggested that the Alcubierre Warp will require way less energy than previously thought (Alcubierre himself said it would take something like the energy mass of jupiter) so who knows, we may be closther than we think. It may happen in your lifetime.
It's just sad, all this gloom and doom. Why not instead work out the solutions? Cuz I can tell you, the overpopulation problem isn't really going to get better. Even the bird flu won't do it. There's a reasonable chance that some of the younger people here could live unimaginable spans of life; some of you could life for hundreds of years in the prime of health until some accident or criminal takes your life. We're nearing the escape velocity with anti-aging drugs and therapies, and we have things on the horizon (such as the much-vaunted nanotech) which have the potential to completely eliminate death, to turn dirt to bread and water to wine. Our population, if anything, is going to explode.
This is a fact that I am grateful for. There are a lot of planets out there, and it will take many men to colonize them. It will take many men to eventually beat the thing we should truly fear, which you miss in your short sighted fears. The way things are going, one day our universe is going to simply evaporate out from under us; entropy, unmaking, is our true enemy. It will take all the bright minds in all the galaxies of all the multitude of universes to defeat that foe.
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curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494945 - 10/07/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This reminds me of that movie "Dr. Strangelove". Maybe I should switch to bottled water. or rainwater .
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens


Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
#7494949 - 10/07/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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We can't allow a mineshaft gap!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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I really don't think terraforming other planets is a viable solution
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
#7494955 - 10/07/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah and China's doing a real good job. Lol.
They are, actually. At least they are attempting to address a problem. Every other country is pretending ignorance on the subject.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494957 - 10/07/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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it's not the only theoretical possibility would be to colonize Mars but to even get there would take years and don't get me started on the other planets
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Shroomism]
#7494960 - 10/07/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not recommending fluoride, I'm saying that the research which has been popularized online DID NOT implicate fluoride as a neurotoxin. There was ONE study, and the results were inconclusive. The rest of the stories about the neuro-effects are made up.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Veritas]
#7494965 - 10/07/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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What about the Nazis being the first to use fluoridated tap water because they found it made the masses complacent?
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druqs
ALKALOIDOHOLIC


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 8,862
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: Veritas]
#7494967 - 10/07/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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anyone else up for a shotgun based rampage?
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curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
#7494968 - 10/07/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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For population control perhaps we could allow each first born child of each family (or a winner of a special lottery) to murder one other person during their life without penalty. But be careful once you've killed that one person if someone more annoying comes into your life it's too late to kill them (without a penalty). Just Kidding.
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens


Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Overpopulation [Re: curtdj]
#7494978 - 10/07/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Our govt would disappear if that were true.
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curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Quote:
learningtofly said: We can't allow a mineshaft gap!
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
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