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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7494623 - 10/07/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's on this page. see my post above near the beginning.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7494638 - 10/07/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I read that.
My question is still standing.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7494702 - 10/07/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If we're going to take the scripture literally and at face value, I've a few more questions:

Why would God create a "tree of knowledge" and a "tree of life" in the first place?
Why would he make them accessible to those who should never consume of them?
Did God create the Serpent?
Why didn't God prevent Eve from eating the fruit?  Or Adam, once she had fallen?

It's a bit like locking two toddlers in a room with candy and watching them on a camera from the next room.  You can say, "Hey, don't eat that candy," but there's a pretty good chance on of them is going to do it anyway.  You should be aware of what's going on in the room, unless you aren't watching the camera.  And if someone else entered the room without my permission and tried to give the toddler the forbidden candy, you better believe I'd smite his ass.  :grin:

But, if I had a friend go into the room and said "Hey buddy, see if those kids will eat the candy," that's another story entirely.  The kids might know that they're supposed to do what I tell them, but that doesn't mean they can't be mislead.  The story, as the scripture tells it, is essentially allowing or being unaware of the third person in the room, allowing or being unaware that the third person is lying to the kids, allowing or being unaware of the kids eating the candy, and then kicking all three out of my house.  :smirk:

Now, I'm pretty sure the whole thing is metaphor and not meant to be taken literally.  The message here is that only God is infallible (ironic since he allowed those created in his image to fall), and that man is prone to mistakes.  As such, while living he will never attain paradise.  The entirety of the rest of the scriptures is meant to tell man how to best act while living so as to enjoy life and get into paradise on the other side.

Put it this way- unless you believe in demons and devils, over history Man has created several religions (from the standpoint of jonathon and others who hold a belief in one particular religion).  Unless you've spoken directly with the creator, what proof do you have that a few thousand years ago, someone didn't sit down and write yours?

...that's what I thought.


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7495039 - 10/07/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Drink_Punk_Soda said:Why would God create a "tree of knowledge" and a "tree of life" in the first place?




why would we create language in the first place? :wink:


Quote:

Why didn't God prevent Eve from eating the fruit?  Or Adam, once she had fallen?




was god ever a human?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7495514 - 10/07/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ooo, I'm on my toes waiting for a response to that.

then again, I don't think I'll be surprised


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7495625 - 10/07/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

to OP

okay here is the fundamental flaw with this question

your question is fine, you are fine

what i mean is this question itself

lets say that you are a Christian, and you ask this question.
The problem is that you aren't answering it for yourself. You would rather have someone else to tell you what to think. This means you do not trust yourself as being able to accurately interpret the Bible.

Now, the Church, the pastors. They might give you good answers, they might give you bad answers. But what Christians often say is that we are NOT SUPPOSED TO THINK FOR OURSELVES.

I saw this on a church sign 2 days ago.

So basically what we see in Christianity is that people are not reading the Bible and understanding it, they are letting a long lineage of colutrally accepted interpretation of a book took big for them to read being dictated back to them by authority figures.

This is where we get the myth of 'turn or burn' 'Jesus or die' 'god loves you so much he will send you to hell'

and even more wicked things such as giving money to get relatives out of purgatory and etc

now when we are allowed to interpret the Bible on our own, we will find true things in it, and they will set us at ease and free

this does not mean you should read it because it will brainwash you into a cultural timeline that is largely irrelevant but

you will learn about gnosis, about the Kingdom being Inward
perhaps

if i write a 40 page treatise on the truth of all things you are either going to think i'm trying to start a cult, or that i am telling the truth and then i have control over you and i will randomly give you snippets of what i say and you will absorb my mind


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (10/07/07 06:25 PM)


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OfflineAIONsufferer
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: leery11]
    #7495832 - 10/07/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Man these answers just has my mind all messed up in what I believed.


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: AIONsufferer]
    #7495930 - 10/07/07 11:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

be a blank slate :wink:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: fivepointer]
    #7495974 - 10/08/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Taken and slightly modified from chapter 2 of "The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination" By Jerome Zanchius. -

"Adam fell in consequence of the Divine decree, let us consider:

God was either willing that Adam should fall, or unwilling, or indifferent about it.

If God was unwilling that Adam should transgress, how came it to pass that he did? Is man stronger and is Satan wiser than He that made them? Surely no. Again, could not God, had it so pleased Him, have hindered the tempter's access to paradise? or have created man, as He did the elect angels, with a will invariably determined to good only and incapable of being biassed to evil? or, at least, have made the grace and strength, with which He endued Adam, actually effectual to the resisting of all solicitations to sin?

Surely, if God had not willed the fall, He could, and no doubt would, have prevented it; but He did not prevent it: ergo He willed it. And if He willed it, He certainly decreed it, for the decree of God is nothing else but the seal and ratification of His Will. He does nothing but what He decreed, and He decreed nothing which He did not will, and both will and decree are absolutely eternal, though the execution of both be in time.

The only way to evade the force of this reasoning is to say that "God was indifferent and unconcerned whether man stood or fell." But in what a shameful, unworthy light does this represent the Deity! Is it possible for us to imagine that God could be an idle, careless spectator of one of the most important events that ever came to pass? Are not "the very hairs of our head all numbered"? or does "a sparrow fall to the ground without our heaveuly Father"? If, then, things the most trivial and worthless are subject to the appointment of His decree and the control of His providence, how much more is man, the masterpiece of this lower creation? and above all that man Adam, who when recent from his Maker's hands was the living image of God Himself, and very little inferior to angels! and on whose perseverance was suspended the welfare not of himself only, but likewise that of the whole world.

But, so far was God from being indifferent in this matter, that there is nothing whatever about which He is so, for He worketh all things, without exception," after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11), consequently, if He positively wills whatever is done, He cannot be indifferent with regard to anything. On the whole, if God was not unwilling that Adam should fall, He must have been willing that he should, since between God's willing and unwilling there is no medium. And is it not highly rational as well as Scriptural, nay, is it not absolutely necessary to suppose that the fall was not contrary to the will and determination of God? since, if it was, His will (which the apostle represents as being irresistible, Rom. 9:19) was apparently frustrated and His determination rendered of worse than none effect. And how dishonourable to, how inconsistent with, and how notoriously subversive of the dignity of God such a blasphemous supposition would be, and how irreconcileable with every one of His allowed attributes is very easy to observe."


As far as free will - man since the Fall has lost "free will". Man only acts according to his nature, which since the Fall is wicked. Man is "free" to act only within the confines of his inherent nature. But since the inherent nature is corrupt, man "freely" acts wickedly. This is spiritual bondage and man is not free in a spiritual sense.




This is some of the most rediculous nonsense I have ever heard in my life. Is this what you believe?? Where does the bible say man has no free will? Tell me! You can't, it's only in your own simple minded self imposed interpretation. You rule out free will before you even begin. You ignore the fact that the placement of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was to test Adam and Eve. That's why God did it. But this requires Adam and Eve to have free will.

I suppose you have no free will either eh? Even though you use it all the time. You are a heretic among heretics.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: onlynow]
    #7496046 - 10/08/07 01:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Just look at the story of the beginning of the world. God said to Adam and Eve, "Don't eat from the tree of knowledge, and don't eat from the tree of life."




No he didn't

Quote:

He had prohibited two trees.




No he didn't.

Quote:

Both are the most significant things in life: wisdom and life — and God denies both. Then you can go on eating all kinds of grass and whatsoever you want. He does not say, "Don't eat marijuana, don't drink alcohol." No, He is not interested in that. Adam and Eve can smoke grass, that is allowed; can make wine from grapes, that is allowed.




No he didn't and no he does not. If he had no intention of giving us wisdom and life then why are those central themes to the bible? Have yo ever read proverbs?

Quote:

Only two things are not allowed: they should not become knowers, they should remain ignorant; and they should not live, they should go on postponing life. And because they disobeyed and ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge...they could not manage to eat the second tree's fruit, they were caught. After eating the fruit of knowledge they were speeding fast towards the tree of life but they were prevented immediately.




What are you talking about? This is pure imagination.

Quote:


It is natural: anyone who has awareness, consciousness — which are the qualities of wisdom — his first thing will be to go deeper into life, to taste it as much as possible, to connect himself with its center, to be drowned in the mystery of life.




No, consciousness is a prerequisite for gaining wisdom. And they had a desire for wisdom, and God would have given it to them, had they obeyed. When they ate the forbidden fruit, they lost wisdom.

Quote:

The story does not say it, but the story is not complete. I say to you, they were rushing immediately, because it is absolutely logical: after eating the fruit of knowledge they were rushing towards the tree of life. And that's why it was so easy for God to catch hold of them; otherwise, in the Garden of Eden there were so many millions of trees, where would He have found them? It would have taken eternity to search: rather than man searching for God, God would have been still searching for man, for where he is.




Where does it say in the bible "after eating the fruit of knowledge they were rushing towards the tree of life". They had full access to the tree of life until they sinned.

Quote:

otherwise, in the Garden of Eden there were so many millions of trees, where would He have found them? It would have taken eternity to search: rather than man searching for God, God would have been still searching for man, for where he is




This is stupid. An eternal all knowing God who created the whole universe can't find Adam and Eve because they're hiding in the trees? I guess if we follow on that logic, he wouldn't have been able to find the tree of life either, it was hiding amoungst millions of trees. And how do you know there were millions of trees?

Quote:

But I know how things would have happened — they are not told in the story. God, coming to know that they have eaten the fruit of knowledge, must have rushed immediately to the tree of life and waited there knowing that they must be coming. It is such simple logic, no Aristotle is needed.




Is this a joke?

Quote:

And certainly they were caught there. Both were rushing, naked, rejoicing, because for the first time their eyes were open. For the first time they were human beings; before this they were only animals amongst other animals...and God threw them out of the Garden of Eden. Since then, man has been longing for life, more life.




You are absolutely wrong. If Adam and eve had no human consciousness and ability for discernment then why is it that Eve
Quote:

saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat




They were created in the likeness of God. I hope you understand this much.

Quote:

But the priests who represent the God that has driven you out of the Garden of Eden — the popes, the imams, the shankaracharyas, the rabbis, they all represent the same guy.




Just because most people are deceitful and blind does not mean all of them are.

Quote:

Strangely enough, nobody says that that guy was your first enemy. On the contrary, they say it was the poor serpent who convinced Eve, "You are being foolish by not eating from the tree of knowledge. God is jealous; He is afraid that if you eat from the tree of knowledge you will become wise. And He is afraid that if you eat from the tree of life you will be just like God. Then who is going to worship Him? He is jealous, afraid — that's why He has prevented you."




So God is jealous, that's why he put the tree there and made it perfectly accesible to Adam and eve? And you forgot to mention to the fact that the serpent completely lied to them by telling them that they would not die, why God clearly said they would. The serpent tricked them and hid the truth of the judgement he knew would come upon them if they disobeyed God.


Quote:

This serpent was humanity's first friend — but he is condemned. The friend is called the devil, and the enemy is called God. Strange are the ways of the human mind! You should thank the serpent! It is just because of the serpent that you have become what you have become. It is because of disobedience to God that you have attained a certain dignity, a pride of being human, a certain integrity, a certain individuality.




You mean foolish arrogance, pride of life, and blindness to the light and truth of a loving God. Everything we have comes from God. There is nothing we can say we have made it for ourselves, it's all of our own, it never came from God. If we have individuality and special characteristics, it is because we receive it as a blessing from God.

You only conform to unconformity of the only Truth there is.

Quote:


So instead of thanking God, change the phrase. Rather than saying, "Thank God!" say, "Thank the serpent!" It is just due to his compassion; otherwise why should he have bothered about you? He must have been a very compassionate fellow.




So the serpent knows better than All-Wise Eternal Love who created him?

Your ignorance and foolishness baffles me. This is the result of turning so far towards darkness. All logic, all knowledge, apart from the Truth, is corrupt and will fail. The devil is a liar, and the father of it. When he speaks, he speaks of his own. His knowledge is a void of darkness.


Edited by jonathan_206 (10/08/07 01:24 AM)


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7496076 - 10/08/07 01:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If we're going to take the scripture literally and at face value, I've a few more questions:

Why would God create a "tree of knowledge" and a "tree of life" in the first place?
Why would he make them accessible to those who should never consume of them?




He made the tree of life (at least one reason why) because it was a convenient way to cut them off from immortality if they sinned.

He put the tree of knowledge of good and evil where he did to test them.

Quote:

Did God create the Serpent?




Not as he was in the garden. God created him perfect, but he fell because of his own selfish desires.

Quote:

Why didn't God prevent Eve from eating the fruit? Or Adam, once she had fallen?




to test them

Quote:

It's a bit like locking two toddlers in a room with candy and watching them on a camera from the next room. You can say, "Hey, don't eat that candy," but there's a pretty good chance on of them is going to do it anyway. You should be aware of what's going on in the room, unless you aren't watching the camera. And if someone else entered the room without my permission and tried to give the toddler the forbidden candy, you better believe I'd smite his lalala. :grin:





Adam and eve wern't toddlers. They were fully adult. And God had displayed more than enough proof to prove his faithfulness and wisdom. If God said, don't eat that fruit, then it's a good idea not to eat that fruit.

Quote:

But, if I had a friend go into the room and said "Hey buddy, see if those kids will eat the candy," that's another story entirely. The kids might know that they're supposed to do what I tell them, but that doesn't mean they can't be mislead. The story, as the scripture tells it, is essentially allowing or being unaware of the third person in the room, allowing or being unaware that the third person is lying to the kids, allowing or being unaware of the kids eating the candy, and then kicking all three out of my house. :smirk:





Adam and Eve knew their was a contradiction from what God had told them to do and what the devil had told them. They were led astray by thier own desires, once enticed by the devil. They were fully capable of making a better choice, and they did not.

Quote:

Now, I'm pretty sure the whole thing is metaphor and not meant to be taken literally. The message here is that only God is infallible (ironic since he allowed those created in his image to fall), and that man is prone to mistakes. As such, while living he will never attain paradise. The entirety of the rest of the scriptures is meant to tell man how to best act while living so as to enjoy life and get into paradise on the other side.




Well, you're wrong. It is literal, and every single verse in the new testament and old that refers to it refers to it as literal. There is nothing that you can possibly go on to conclude that it is not literal, except your own false presupposition. If it is not literal, then it is a blatant lie.

Quote:


Put it this way- unless you believe in demons and devils, over history Man has created several religions (from the standpoint of jonathon and others who hold a belief in one particular religion). Unless you've spoken directly with the creator, what proof do you have that a few thousand years ago, someone didn't sit down and write yours?




How about spiritual recognition of his Eternal Divine nature? Not to mention the physical universe which demands his existence.

Quote:

...that's what I thought.




You thought too soon.


Edited by jonathan_206 (10/08/07 01:32 AM)


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: AIONsufferer]
    #7496085 - 10/08/07 01:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Man these answers just has my mind all messed up in what I believed.




What do you mean?


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7497890 - 10/08/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Why would God feel the need to test his own creations? If he wished to create something that would not sin, surely he could have done so? Or, do you suppose he created Man with the ability to sin, just to see if he would? That wouldn't be necessary if God was confident in his own abilities.

If the Serpent was created in a Perfect form, what caused the Serpent to develop selfish desires? Why would God create a creature with the capacity for selfishness? Why would he allow one of his own to fall, and take two more with it?

You refer to the Serpent as the "devil". Did God create the Devil? If not, did the devil manifest itself? Or, did the Serpent become the devil when it developed its "selfish desires", and if that's the case, why didn't God do anything to prevent that?


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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7497911 - 10/08/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)


Why would God feel the need to test his own creations? If he wished to create something that would not sin, surely he could have done so? Or, do you suppose he created Man with the ability to sin, just to see if he would? That wouldn't be necessary if God was confident in his own abilities.


Here's the reason that I believe. It's the same reason a little kid likes to play with and torture insects and pets and each other. You see, this so called God is created in the image of his creators and so has all of their petty neurotic, sadistic, paranoid, etc, complexes. And also of course the desire to love.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Icelander]
    #7497925 - 10/08/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Do you mean to imply that God himself has a creator or creators?  I don't think that'll sit too well with Jonathan.  And who created the Creator's Creators?  :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7498184 - 10/08/07 04:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

We are the creators of God. In our own flawed image. I'm not worried about it not sitting too well with Jonathan. He's on his own and a big boy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/08/07 04:11 PM)


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7498429 - 10/08/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

and that is your interpretation :awesome:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: onlynow]
    #7498508 - 10/08/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

In Christianity shame is the original sin. You have heard the story of what happened to Adam and Eve. At which moment did the sin happen? It has been a continuous search to find in exactly what moment the sin happened. They were forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but they were tempted. It is natural: whenever anything is forbidden, temptation comes -- this is how mind behaves. But mind has another trick also: it tempts you, but it always makes somebody else responsible. Whenever something is forbidden the mind becomes interested, it becomes an invitation. The mind wants to know, to poke its nose in, inquire.

Adam and Eve were tempted by themselves, nobody else was there. But the story says the devil, Satan, tempted them. This is a trick of the mind to throw the responsibility on someone else. And this 'devil' is nothing but a scapegoat, this 'devil' is nothing but a trick of the mind to throw all responsibilities. You are tempted, but the 'devil' is the tempter so you are not responsible. He has persuaded you, he seduced you, so he is the sinner not you. But the temptation came from the forbiddance, and this was a trick of the mind. The story is beautiful:

God said, "Don't eat the fruit from this tree!" If they were trusting, then they would have avoided the tree. But they were not trusting. They said: "Why? Why does God forbid us this tree, and this tree is the tree of knowledge?" The mind must have said to them, "If you eat, you will become like gods because you will be knowers. And he is forbidding you because he is jealous. He is forbidding you because he would not like you to become like gods. You will be knowers, then nothing will be hidden from you." But the story says the devil tempted them and said, "He has forbidden it because he is jealous and afraid." This was just a situation for Adam and Eve to prove whether they had trust or not -- nothing else.

But the mind persuaded them -- mind is the 'devil'. The devil came in the shape of a snake, and the snake is the oldest symbol of cunningness -- mind is the snake, the most cunning thing. Adam and Eve both made the devil responsible, threw the responsibility on the devil -- and Adam also threw the responsibility on Eve. Man has always said that woman is the tempter, so men have always been condemning women. In all the scriptures of the world the woman is the tempter: she leads you into temptation, she seduces you, and she is the cause of all trouble. So your so-called saints go on condemning women.

This is the way of the mind:

Eve says, "The devil"; Adam says, "Eve"; and if you ask the devil, if you get him somewhere, he will say, "God -- because why should he forbid in the first place? That created the whole trouble. Otherwise, the garden of Eden was so big and there were millions of trees, that by themselves Adam and Eve would never have come upon the tree of knowledge. 'Forbidden!' They knew this was the tree, and then the whole garden became uninteresting, their whole interest became focused -- it was God's fault!"

But the story is beautiful and has millions of dimensions around it; it can be interpreted in many, many ways -- that is the beauty of a parable. They took the fruit of the tree, they ate it, and immediately they became ashamed of their nakedness. Where did the sin happen? By disobeying God? If you ask the pope of the Vatican, he will say, "By disobeying God," because priests would like you to always obey, never disobey.

If you ask philosophers, not theologians, they will say: "By eating the fruit of knowledge." Because when you start thinking trouble arises. Life is innocent without thinking: children are innocent because they cannot think, trees look so beautiful because they cannot think. Man looks so ugly because his mind is always burdened and tense with worries and thoughts and dreams and reveries, and he is always burdened -- the whole grace is lost. So if you ask existentialist philosophers, they will say that it is because of the tree of knowledge.

But if you ask the psychologists, whose approach is deepest, they will say, "Because of shame." Because when you feel shame you have started to hate yourself, when you feel ashamed you have rejected yourself. But it came through knowledge. Children cannot feel ashamed; they move naked easily, there is no problem. You force them by and by to feel ashamed: "Don't be naked!" The more they become knowers, then the more they will hide themselves.

Jesus says: WHEN YOU TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHING WITHOUT BEING ASHAMED. But what did Adam and Eve do? They put fig leaves around their sex organs, the first clothing invented -- the world started. How can you enter again into the garden of Eden? Throw away your fig leaves! -- that's what Jesus says. He says this is the way back to paradise. This is the way back: WHEN YOU TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHING WITHOUT BEING ASHAMED. Because you can take off your clothing and remain ashamed, then deep down the clothing is there: you are hiding, you are not open. So nudity is not nakedness; you may be nude, but not naked.

Nakedness has a deeper dimension: it means no shame, no feeling of being ashamed; it means accepting your body in its totality as it is. No condemnation in the mind, no division in the body -- a simple acceptance, then it is nakedness. Mahavira is not nude, he is not a member of a nudist club; he is naked, he is naked like a child. In a nudist club you are not naked. Even your nudity is calculated, it is manipulation from the mind. You are revolting, you are rebellious, you are going against the society -- because the society believes in clothes, you are throwing the clothes. But it is a reaction so you are not innocent, innocent like a child.

Says Jesus:

AND TAKE YOUR CLOTHES AND PUT THEM UNDER YOUR FEET AS THE LITTLE CHILDREN AND TREAD ON THEM -- THEN SHALL YOU BEHOLD THE SON OF THE LIVING ONE, AND YOU SHALL NOT FEAR.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
Now with ExtraVaganza!?

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Nowhere fast
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Icelander]
    #7499087 - 10/08/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Icelander- I agree with your statement, that God is created in Man's image, and not the other way around. The rest of the post was meant to be ironic.

And Jonathan, if you're still reading this thread, please don't misinterpret. I find your conviction in faith a most admirable trait. You are obviously equipped with the backbone required to stand up for what you believe is right. My motivation for continuing to question your responses is to see how far the explanations go.

I guess my ultimate question would be this: Why did God allow Man to fall?


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!


Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Did God want Eve to eat the fruit? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #7499141 - 10/08/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

why aren't we discussing
leery11:4:22-
don't tell me you don't know what that says?
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Get out your pamphlets please and read along with me.......


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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