|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
Skeptics
#7490758 - 10/06/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What bothers me about the so called "skeptics" is the pigeon holing.
They basically stick things in a mental box label it as "rejected" and thats it.
If you really seek the truth then you yourself have to to do the research - on every single subject!
Sitting there saying years of research from other people has concluded blah blah is not IMO a valid argument! For several reasons... What one scientist has concluded another will of disproved Theres the flocking effect (if a respected scientist gets the wrong result people will believe its more credible despite it being wrong) In any test there are many factors which are constantly evolving - theres never going to be a truly flawless test Theres the fact that we are human (lol) humans fall ill of many problems that can influence the resulted (money for example has led to scientists falsifying results)
The list goes on.
Back to my original point - Unless you have done a thorough research yourself then you are in no position to pass judgment.
It seems silly to be blindly following without actually having any research other than another person told me (no matter how credible you believe that person is).
Being skeptical is not about labeling stuff into boxes of real or false, its about remaining skeptical! Thats UNDECIDED!
Quote:
In philosophical skepticism, pyrrhonism is a position that refrains from making truth claims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptic
Many people here get me wrong - they assume because I have an interest in Ufology that I am an alien nut (a believer). I'm constantly telling people that I don't actually believe anything - I merely state my observations. At that point I am usually told I'm a liar - thats when I laugh because I see that the person has to label me as a liar to maintain their version of reality. It always comes back to protecting the ego.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Quote:
If you really seek the truth then you yourself have to to do the research - on every single subject!
So if I have cancer and don't really trust the research that's been done until now, should I start doing it? We (as people) have interests in MULTIPLE domains, have our own preparation, sustain our living etc. Now tell me, if the curiosity is really fucking with my head, where do I actually do let's say some research on the human brain? Where do I get the approvals, the money, the tools, the crew...?  Do you care to discuss this issue from a realistic point of view or do you just wanna complain? If it's the first, then I'd suggest you to think about these things and respond in consequence. If it's the latter it only shows your own incapacity to conduct a logical debate, in a philosophical context, where the distinction between reliable and bogus is imperative.
Quote:
Sitting there saying years of research from other people has concluded blah blah is not IMO a valid argument! For several reasons... What one scientist has concluded another will of disproved
I'll begin by saying that this doesn't happen so often as you're trying to insinuate, and if it's happening it's mostly because scientists constantly come up with new means of deeper investigating, due to the previous investigations which showed signs of working. See how it goes?
Then I will have to tell you that, if you noted, every skeptical discussion here always leaves room for the new, nothing is final but we, as aware observers, can take note of what is provable in a certain context.
Quote:
Theres the flocking effect (if a respected scientist gets the wrong result people will believe its more credible despite it being wrong)
Then the people you're talking about have an issue, not science itself.
Quote:
In any test there are many factors which are constantly evolving - theres never going to be a truly flawless test
Dear lord, can it get more ambiguous that that? I'll have to ask you for some EXACT examples.
Quote:
Theres the fact that we are human (lol) humans fall ill of many problems that can influence the resulted (money for example has led to scientists falsifying results)
Now this is really getting out of line. This is nothing but plain talking which has as purpose to increase the drama in your post. Please stick to exact information.
Quote:
The list goes on.
Progressively more & more ambiguous. 
Quote:
Back to my original point - Unless you have done a thorough research yourself then you are in no position to pass judgment.
Alsthough I sustain that philosophy and science should go hand in hand, there's a fine distinction between the two of them. I'm sure that you already know it and I'm not a 6 grade teacher to hold that lesson now.
Quote:
It seems silly to be blindly following without actually having any research other than another person told me (no matter how credible you believe that person is).
Being skeptical is not about labeling stuff into boxes of real or false, its about remaining skeptical! Thats UNDECIDED!
So we should be undecided about rain getting us wet, the effect of ecstasy on human brain (at least what we know by now), etc.
Quote:
Many people here get me wrong - they assume because I have an interest in Ufology that I am an alien nut (a believer). I'm constantly telling people that I don't actually believe anything - I merely state my observations. At that point I am usually told I'm a liar - thats when I laugh because I see that the person has to label me as a liar to maintain their version of reality. It always comes back to protecting the ego.
This has nothing to do with the subject. Or does it?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
What bothers me about true believers is that....
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
|
Quote:
So if I have cancer and don't really trust the research that's been done until now, should I start doing it?
Definately! The research on cancer as it happens is actually biased. Cannabis has been shown to slow tumor growth where as sugars are shown to feed tumors. They don't tell you that before they suggest pumping yourself with radiation!
Gotta go, will reply to the rest l8r!
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Yes to doing your own research.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Hmm so I should:
Quote:
re·search /rɪˈsɜrtʃ, ˈrisɜrtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-surch, ree-surch] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.: recent research in medicine. 2. a particular instance or piece of research. –verb (used without object) 3. to make researches; investigate carefully. –verb (used with object) 4. to make an extensive investigation into: to research a matter thoroughly.
Which brings be back to these questions:
Quote:
Where do I get the approvals, the money, the tools, the crew...?
Quote:
Cannabis has been shown to slow tumor growth where as sugars are shown to feed tumors.
Sources? 
Quote:
They don't tell you that before they suggest pumping yourself with radiation!
"They" who? The researches? The doctors? The health industry?
Quote:
Gotta go, will reply to the rest l8r!
Ok, gr8!
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
FocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
|
|
What bothers me about the so called "skeptics" is the pigeon holing.
They basically stick things in a mental box label it as "rejected" and thats it.
If you really seek the truth then you yourself have to to do the research - on every single subject!
Any reasonable skeptics aren't inflexible. If something comes along that disproves their past notions, they'll rearrange their mental box. The idea of having to research every subject is not only pragmatically impossible, but theoretically fallacious. As long as there are guidelines that are reasonable into the evidence admitted into a certain subject i.e respectable journals, peer review, etc. I can take their results at face value.
Back to my original point - Unless you have done a thorough research yourself then you are in no position to pass judgment.
It seems silly to be blindly following without actually having any research other than another person told me (no matter how credible you believe that person is).
Being skeptical is not about labeling stuff into boxes of real or false, its about remaining skeptical! Thats UNDECIDED!
There are so many problems with the idea of my research being the only way to have any credibility: people lie, people cheat, people have a psychological profile etc. It's sillier to believe your research has more weight than trained experts who understand the nuances a lot more than someone who is trying to research everything (there's that pragmatic impossibility again).
If skepticism were about remaining undecided, no one would do it. Skepticism is just a way of approaching a situation demanding that only the truth be taking into account. Descartes was the grandfather of skepticism, did he remain undecided about his "I think therefore I am." statement?
Many people here get me wrong - they assume because I have an interest in Ufology that I am an alien nut (a believer). I'm constantly telling people that I don't actually believe anything - I merely state my observations. At that point I am usually told I'm a liar - thats when I laugh because I see that the person has to label me as a liar to maintain their version of reality. It always comes back to protecting the ego.
I apologize for labeling you a believer; the way you posted seemed to carry that stigma. But you're making assumptions about people calling you a liar, maybe the disagree with your methodology/philosophy/ontology. There's any number of reasons besides "protecting the ego". If I follow the same steps you took, I can make a similar proposition about you: "You say everyone is persecuting your vision of reality to protect your ego". And around in circles we'll go.
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
|
Quote:
Ok, gr8!
No-ones forcing you to read or reply.
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
|
Quote:
Any reasonable skeptics aren't inflexible. If something comes along that disproves their past notions, they'll rearrange their mental box. The idea of having to research every subject is not only pragmatically impossible, but theoretically fallacious. As long as there are guidelines that are reasonable into the evidence admitted into a certain subject i.e respectable journals, peer review, etc. I can take their results at face value.
I agree but the possability of it being incorrect must always linger. We can easily have our ideas manipulated for the gain of others. Also, we can only make conclusions based on what we observe - we never get the whole picture.
Quote:
It's sillier to believe your research has more weight than trained experts who understand the nuances a lot more than someone who is trying to research everything (there's that pragmatic impossibility again).
I agree too but if my research smells a rat then I will not always think that the "experts" are 100%
Quote:
"You say everyone is persecuting your vision of reality to protect your ego". And around in circles we'll go.
Yep and whats to say I'm not. I have the same downfalls as every other human. Our brains mapping systems control more than what my councious thought can arrange to my suspicions.
|
onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
|
i am definitely a skeptic
but what happens when i project this skepticism and identify myself with it? if i am really a skeptic, should i not be skeptical of my possible attachment to skepticism?
i am a skeptic, and i am not a skeptic. i am a label, and i am not. can anyone relate? i don't want the image of a skeptic as i feel that will only bring possible misunderstanding and confusion. so i keep it to myself most times.
--------------------
Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Quote:
Ego Death said:
Quote:
Ok, gr8!
No-ones forcing you to read or reply.
No need to take it so serious, it was a joke to your l8r...
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
|
|
Quote:
Cannabis has been shown to slow tumor growth where as sugars are shown to feed tumors.
Source please?
|
curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Redstorm]
#7494305 - 10/07/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'd like to see the source for that too. I don't like sugar much myself.
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: curtdj]
#7494314 - 10/07/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
These is no source.  First of all how many researches are there being made of cannabis, an illegal plant? Second of all, if something like that would have been revealed, we would have already known.
Nice avatar BTW
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6283
There is actually quite a bit of research being conducted using THC extracts. This article is one of many I found online, though most of the other articles were posted on pro-MJ sites. It seems legitimate.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494343 - 10/07/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Awesome
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
The claim of refined sugar "feeding" cancerous tumors appears to be a misunderstanding regarding the metabolic nature of cancer cells.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494393 - 10/07/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
In a recent taste test, cancer cells preferred Mountain Dew 2 to 1 over the leading cola...
--------------------
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494396 - 10/07/07 01:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe this was from some other research? My dad's friend had cancer and from what I recall the doctors told her to stop eating sugar... apparently it was too late for that anyways.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
"Ohhhh, I just finished a Big Gulp, and now I've got a tumor THIS BIG!"
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
Well, I would not recommend sugar to anyone, as it has no health benefits & many negative health effects, but there does not seem to be any legitimate research backing the claim that it directly feeds tumor growth.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494416 - 10/07/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
No glucose, no brain function.
--------------------
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
Blood glucose levels are not dependent upon refined sucrose consumption, Shmoopy.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494440 - 10/07/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
You can't change in midstream. Sugar now = sucrose and not a whole panoply of molecules?
--------------------
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
The discussion was regarding refined sugar consumption, so I am not changing in midstream. Refined sugar = sucrose The brain is not dependent upon consumption of sucrose, it is dependent upon adequate blood glucose levels.
|
curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494630 - 10/07/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Cool article Veritas. It's tough to get away from that sugar. The only thing to drink without it seems to be water. 1% milk doesn't have much though. I think even though the sugar in milk and juice isn't necessarily refined sugar it seems to have the same effect.
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: curtdj]
#7494639 - 10/07/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The lactose in milk & fructose in fruit do have a similar effect on blood sugar levels. Eating whole fruit slows the effect, as it also contains fiber. Milk, IMO, is for infants. I like to drink fresh veggie juice.
|
curtdj
Space Ranger



Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 32
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494917 - 10/07/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What veggies/veggie combination would you say makes the healthiest or tastiest drink? I've been drinking v8 but never thought to make one fresh.
-------------------- "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) "It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "How can I lose to such an idiot?" - A shout from chessmaster Aaron Nimzovich (1886-1935)
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: curtdj]
#7494946 - 10/07/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Here's a link to my favorite juicing book:
Juicing Bible
Experiment with different combos until you find one that you like. V8 is very high in sodium & must be pasteurized before bottling.
|
onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy



Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494963 - 10/07/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|

I'm sure many of us could use that.
--------------------
Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Skeptics [Re: Veritas]
#7494964 - 10/07/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
My favorite is Juicing for Skeptics.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
"Place skeptic carefully in blender, then put on Frappe..."
--------------------
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
|
Quote:
These is no source. First of all how many researches are there being made of cannabis, an illegal plant? Second of all, if something like that would have been revealed, we would have already known.
Hmmmm,  Yes, we would of already known - I think this justifies my point about research!??
Quote:
Cannabis extract shrinks brain tumours
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6283
Quote:
Pot Shrinks Tumors; Government Knew In '74
http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v01/n572/a11.html
Edited by Ego Death (10/07/07 06:48 PM)
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Thank you, Veritas already posted a link. Now if you want, can you probably answer my other questions which are still standing?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
|