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Iron_Hymen
Shake Hands withBeef



Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 856
Loc: Mass-of-two-shits
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: supra]
#7489766 - 10/05/07 08:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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rumble of the diesel!
--------------------
 #1 reason organized religion should be done away with. It's a message, and one that is open to speculation. "Pray your own prayers and talk to God on your own.He doesn't want a fucking parrot, and he doesn't want a sheep" GnuBobo:Iron. Hymen. Vitamin. Be Iron, like Hymen, in Vitamin. Iron. Hymen. Vitamin.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: supra]
#7489779 - 10/05/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
we have had more work here lately than ever.
That is actually more of a indicator of little to no spare capacity than not. If oil were not in great demand there would be more idle wells.
You should do some research on the rate of oil discovery globally in the last forty years. I would post a chart on that but I am not home right now. I assume you would concede that production follows discovery, correct? Well discovery has been dropping for the last few decades along with production while demand overtakes them.
Meanwhile global population is swelling as China and India industrialize and increase their insatiable appetite for oil. There is just no way in hell we can keep up with future demand without adequate discoveries to meet that demand.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era



Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: supra]
#7489784 - 10/05/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i say we fuck oil, buy our own solar grid, work on making more effiecnet batteries, and run our entire lives off stored solar energy
did you know the sun supples ten times the globaly yearly energy demands in one day?
did you know if you utilized 1 percent of the worlds desserts for solar thermal energy (the kind that stores energy in liquified salt) you could double the needs of world energy?
and we are stuck on this goddamn dinosaur goo? ot "go juice" (see Movie Waterworld for reference)
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era



Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: moon_glue]
#7489788 - 10/05/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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im severely wasted sorry for typos, grammatical errors, and the rest.
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WakeboardrB
Pepe Silvia



Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 13,678
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: supra]
#7489791 - 10/05/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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THE SKY IS FALLING
WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?
-------------------- Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.
Edited by WakeboardrB (10/05/07 08:12 PM)
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: WakeboardrB]
#7489821 - 10/05/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree that Peak Oil is a myth. It's absolutely ridiculous to predict the peak and recession of oil production when we probably haven't even discovered 1% of what's available.
We have discovered somewhere around half the oil that is expected to be on the Earth. That's a lot more than 1% 
The oil that is left is the harder to get at half, too. We used up all the easy to get at oil first, because it was easy to get to. The stuff that's left requires a substantial investment in energy, in one form or another, to get to it. That relationship is called EROEI - energy return on energy invested. At some point it takes more energy to extract the oil than you get out of the oil. At that point the oil becomes an energy sink, and it doesn't matter how much is in the ground...it won't help you.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: trendal]
#7489846 - 10/05/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Absolutely. Oil will go sky high in a short while.
Oil consumption is increasing more and more each year. The oil becomes harder and harder to drill driving production costs up. Even if we can keep production at its current level, it will cost more and more to produce a barrel, and each of those barrels will be in higher demand.
Will we see $250 oil in 2015? I think that's a reasonable expectation.
To own cars like Hummers that guzzle gas at ten miles per gallon is inexcusable. There is no good reason whatsoever to waste resources like that. When you go somewhere, need you do that in a car that weighs 8.500 lbs? Hubris!
I'm also strongly AGAINST biodiesel and ethanol as it is produced nowadays. Biodiesel and ethanol are produced from grains and seeds, or in other words the edible part of the plants. Growing corn to make fuel in a world where a billion people are malnourished is ethically indefensible. At a slightly higher cost you can make your ethanol from the straw of the plant, and save the grain for food production. Today, world food prices already are rising BECAUSE of the fuel plants. Your bread and pasta is more expensive today because of the fuel plants. Food can't be made even more expensive on the world market because the rich want fuel. Ferment the chaff, not the grain.
As oil goes up, gold will go up also. Their ratio to one another varies, but overall the trend is on the rise. You can't buy oil but you can buy gold.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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CosmicFool
Psychoholic


Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 9,581
Loc: 203
Last seen: 22 days, 11 hours
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: moon_glue]
#7489893 - 10/05/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
moon_glue said: i say we fuck oil, buy our own solar grid, work on making more effiecnet batteries, and run our entire lives off stored solar energy
did you know the sun supples ten times the globaly yearly energy demands in one day?
The problem is most people don't realize how much our live DEPEND on oil. We could switch to solar/wind/water/nuclear/magic but oil will still lubricate the moving parts, and be used to make the plastic.
in fact you would have trouble finding one thing that doesn't rely on oil in some way. food is grown w/ fertilizer made from oil, oil/coal are used for elect., cars/planes/boats/trains ship products (all run on oil), plastics are made from oil, oil lubricates machines (like the ones that clean our drinking water) roads are made from tar, home are heated w/ oil, and so on, this is just a quick list
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Edited by CosmicFool (10/05/07 08:50 PM)
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: CosmicFool]
#7489917 - 10/05/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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in fact you would have trouble finding one thing that doesn't rely on oil in some way.
Take a look around you, right now, and count the number of things you have that have not come directly from oil. Go ahead and try...I did and the number was sorely lacking.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: trendal]
#7489982 - 10/05/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Western governments are overly corrupt is the reason we have not nor attempted to ween off oil. Hybrids and solar panels are great, but the average person cannot afford them. I thought it was insulting when I read a global warming handout at my college suggesting I buy a hybrid. As if most college students have money laying around to buy one.
It is possible to survive without oil, but not without government leadership or desire to do so. Especially not when (where I live anyway) public transportation is very poor.
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denots87
Shroomerite



Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 125
Loc: B-Town
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: Asante]
#7489993 - 10/05/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oil running out? Hardly the problem. Oil that is easily accessible and easy to process yes. The oil fields we now use contain enough oil that from 1 unit of energy we put in to extract it the approximate output is 35 units of energy. Oil that is mixed with sand, or in remote locations such as the North Western Territories of Canada takes more energy and money to extract, thus rising prices.
Oil really does turn our world no matter how you look at it. Cars, trucks, ships, planes, factories, agriculture, electricity use oil for fuel (energy) and for ingredients (plastics). Everything, even synthetic oils use conventional oil in the production whether its from the lubricant for the processors or the fuel for trucks or tanker ships bringing it to stores or distributors. There is no such thing as a free, renewable energy. Solar panels and windmills all require extensive use of equipment that uses oil. New technology is coming along, such as more effiecent solar panels and new "flying" windmills but not with nearly enough sense or urgency or money. We need to start producing green manufacturing plants, as that is the start of this cycle that is literally digging our grave.
Bio-fuel is a lie and set for failure on a mass scale if put into mass production. Yes, it "can" help to easy the burden of demand, but it can't hold the world on its own. The US simply does not have enough fertile land to feed the people and produce bio-fuels. Not to mention the world food shortage that is already present in poorer countries or even industrialized nations like China (cardboard as a filler in foods). Another problem we are faced with is the changing environment in our country, more droughts in once fertile land and more flooding in areas not used to major storms. The result, our system set in place starts to crumble, farms will have to be moved or abandoned and land will disappear just as it did in the Great Depression. Both bio-fuel and food production rely heavily on petroleum based pesticides and products to meet demands.
Many of these issues can be solved, but the biggest problem is one that the majority of people focus their lives on. Money. Who is going to pay to build new windmills, intergrate crop rotation into the current agriculture industry, and creating cleaner, more effeicent manufacturing plants? Until someone can answer this question and people start agreeing on a dedicated course of action we as a society will continue is this downward spiral. The increasing demand, rising prices, and shrinking supplies spell doom for our culture as we know.
My advice to anyone who can is search for a safe place to build a self substainable home and farm. Thats my plan for life at least to survive the tough coming times we face in the next 10-30 years.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: denots87]
#7490005 - 10/05/07 09:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Correct me if I am mistaken... but couldn't hemp replace all the uses for oil a hundred times over as a renewable resource? Not only as a fuel.. but also as food, textiles, medicine, plastics.. etc
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: Shroomism]
#7490008 - 10/05/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Correct me if I am mistaken... but couldn't hemp replace all the uses for oil a hundred times over as a renewable resource? Not only as a fuel.. but also as food, textiles, medicine, plastics.. etc
exactly why it is illegal
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: meatcakeman]
#7490014 - 10/05/07 09:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah.... stupid Dupont
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: Shroomism]
#7490061 - 10/05/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Correct me if I am mistaken... but couldn't hemp replace all the uses for oil a hundred times over as a renewable resource? Not only as a fuel.. but also as food, textiles, medicine, plastics.. etc
Definitely mistaken. If we replaced all the farmland in america with hemp we couldnt displace a fraction of our oil usage, let alone 100 times over. Not to mention all of that other stuff. Drug propaganda works both ways...
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: denots87]
#7490241 - 10/06/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The oil fields we now use contain enough oil that from 1 unit of energy we put in to extract it the approximate output is 35 units of energy.
I'd be interested in where you got that number. From what I've heard the ratio is more like 1:1.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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buddhahoodlum
Bodhisattva



Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 354
Loc: Buddhahood
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: zorbman]
#7490280 - 10/06/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll keep sayin it till someone disproves it. Zero Point Energy will cure all of this in a day. If only we had more scientist's discussing this we would have alot of change rather than being stuck in the sewer with these stupid bio-fuel's and destructive silicon plate's of stupidity.
-------------------- “I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T “Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature." - Nikola Tesla
Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/06/07 01:14 AM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: buddhahoodlum]
#7490339 - 10/06/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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If.
If.
If.
If we had wings we could fly..
Until some genius steps up we are stuck with what we have. Technology is not magic in spite of what you've heard.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (10/06/07 02:09 AM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: DieCommie]
#7490442 - 10/06/07 03:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Correct me if I am mistaken... but couldn't hemp replace all the uses for oil a hundred times over as a renewable resource? Not only as a fuel.. but also as food, textiles, medicine, plastics.. etc
Definitely mistaken. If we replaced all the farmland in America with hemp we couldn't displace a fraction of our oil usage, let alone 100 times over. Not to mention all of that other stuff. Drug propaganda works both ways...
Quote:
http://www.hemp4fuel.com/hughdowns.html - Hemp (marijuana) could replace most oil and energy needs, and could revolutionize the textile industry and stop foreign dependency on oil imports. And it could significantly reduce or eliminate the negative ecological impacts of these polluting industries.
Quote:
http://www.jackherer.com/chapter02.html - Then there is only one known annual renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meeting all of the world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs; simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time...
And that substance is - the same one that did it all before -
Cannabis Hemp...Marijuana!
Quote:
http://www.ratical.org/renewables/greenEcon.html - Hemp is the only plant capable of becoming the American biomass energy standard. Hemp grows well everywhere on earth except the polar regions. Hemp will out produce wood at a rate greater than four to one per acre in cellulose/pulp. And by analyzing pre-prohibition hemp crop reports from various States, ten tons per acre becomes a reasonable biomass production figure. Hemp will make ten times more biomass per acre than forest wood. Hemp can be grown for: crude biomass fuels on energy farms; fiber/hurds for textiles, pressed board and hurd cellulose products; seed for oil and high protein foods; flowers for pharmaceutical grade extract medicine and recreational herbal products for adults.
Quote:
http://www.digitalhemp.com/hemp/html/emp/09/ech09_02.htm - Farming only 6% of the continental U.S. with biomass would provide all of America’s oil and gas energy needs, thus ending our dependence on fossil fuels. Hemp is the number one net biomass source on Earth: capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months.
- This one has been quoted a lot.
There is a reason hemp was the number one cash crop in the world prior to prohibition. Hemp proponents claim there are over 20,000 commercial uses for hemp; including but not limited to: Fuel, Food (one of the single most nutritious things on the planet for humans), Textiles, Medicine, Paint, Plastics, Construction Lumber, Insulation, etc. It is easily one of the most efficacious plants on Earth. Has among the lowest impact on the soil of most farmed plants, requires zero pesticides, a full crop cycle takes only 3 months and has a higher cellulose content than just about anything we know.
... So are you saying that is all bullshit? And that I should just take your word on that....?
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Enjoy the Cheap Oil While You Still Can [Re: Shroomism]
#7491110 - 10/06/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/06/13 05:35 AM)
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