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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ]
#7487824 - 10/05/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's time to consider legalizing marijuana Robert Robb October 5, 2007 - Arizona Republic
A recent Government Accountability Office report on drug interdiction in Mexico is so bleak you have to wonder, what's the point?
From 2000 to 2005, according to the GAO, the amount of marijuana flowing into the United States from Mexico increased 44 percent. Cocaine shipments to the United States increased 64 percent. Heroin production for U.S. consumption nearly doubled.
The National Drug Intelligence Center estimates that the total value of the illegal drug trade between Mexico and the United States at between $8 billion and $23 billion.
The upper end of that range has eye-popping significance.
Mexico's economy relies heavily on trade with the United States. At the upper end of the range, the illegal drug trade is equivalent to 14 percent of the total value of Mexico's legal exports to the United States. Illegal drugs are probably Mexico's second-leading export to the United States, lagging behind only oil.
It is not as though nothing was being done during the period the GAO studied. The U.S. gave Mexico nearly $400 million to assist in drug interdiction. Former President Vicente Fox made interrupting the drug trade a priority. Cartel leaders were targeted. Extraditions to the U.S. increased. A new federal police force was formed to try to bypass the corruption in other agencies.
New Mexican President Felipe Calderón is taking even more aggressive action. Regardless of the good will and stern intentions of Mexico's senior federal leadership, however, the money in the illegal drug trade simply overwhelms the rule of law at the local level. That's a serious problem, for Mexico and the U.S.
So, what to do about it?
Decriminalization for recreational drug use has been a safe haven for those who believe that locking up people strictly for drug use is wrong or have concluded that the war on drugs is futile. I've rested comfortably there for years.
However, removing criminal sanctions for drug use won't dismantle the destructive and dangerous criminal supply networks that have taken deep root in Mexico and, increasingly, here in the United States. Only a legal means of production, distribution and sale will do that.
That's a far less comfortable proposition. Making the production and sale of drugs commercially available, particularly hard drugs, is unnerving and scary.
Perhaps legalizing just marijuana would make the problem manageable.
According to a federal study, 6 percent of the population over the age of 12 had used marijuana in the previous month. That's nearly 15 million people.
Only about 1 percent of the population had used cocaine in the previous month. The numbers for meth and heroin were even lower, two-tenths of 1 percent and one-tenth of 1 percent respectively.
Marijuana accounts for over 60 percent of the proceeds of the illegal drug trade between Mexico and the United States, according to the NDIC estimate.
So, perhaps the line on legalization, rather than decriminalization, can be drawn at marijuana. Perhaps that would give Mexican officials a fighting chance to get on top of the remainder of the drug trade and install the rule of law at the local level.
Legalization of even marijuana would be a big step into the unknown.
Despite the claims of incautious legalization advocates, usage would undoubtedly go up as prices dropped, product became more available and convenient, and risks disappeared.
And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high.
The experience of other countries with legalization of marijuana and some harder drugs is mixed, at best. Recreational drug use becoming a visible part of a culture isn't a good thing.
Perhaps the United States could legislate a legalization of marijuana use for private consumption that kept it largely out of sight. That, however, cannot be counted on.
What the United States would be like with legal recreational drugs is unknown. Sometimes, however, the known is so bad or futile that a trade for the unknown is the best course of action.
That point has been reached regarding the legal status of marijuana.
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boxcarguy07
Uno



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: veggie]
#7487908 - 10/05/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I really liked this article until he said "And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high."
That is such bullcrap. There's are many more reasons to ingest marijuana than to get high. Is the author ignoring all of the people who use it as medicine? Or the religions that use it as a sacrament? Or maybe that normal, everyday people use it spiritually?
There's not really too many reasons other than getting drunk to ingest alcohol. Even if you don't drink a lot, you're still doing it for the effect. The line between tipsy and drunk is completely objective; it doesn't really exist. If you drink you're doing it to get drunk, ie. to feel its effects.
"You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high." Such crap. Makes me kinda mad.
--------------------
Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.
"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind." -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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dutchmushroom
mushroom invader



Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1,393
Loc: Outer Space
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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: boxcarguy07]
#7487956 - 10/05/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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dont spread the lies legalize,
peace out Dm
-------------------- "Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand says: don't you see? Gotta make it some how, on the dreams you still believe, Don't give it up, you've got an empty cup, only love can fill, only love can fill" < Grateful Dead! The bus came by and I got on, and thats when it all began GROWLIGHT KIT, 250w HPS Digital ballast, + Enhanced Spectrum bulb and Reflector Sale Or Trade!
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skroomadoom
master of theskroomaverse



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: boxcarguy07]
#7488303 - 10/05/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
boxcarguy07 said: I really liked this article until he said "And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high."
That is such bullcrap. There's are many more reasons to ingest marijuana than to get high. Is the author ignoring all of the people who use it as medicine? Or the religions that use it as a sacrament? Or maybe that normal, everyday people use it spiritually?
There's not really too many reasons other than getting drunk to ingest alcohol. Even if you don't drink a lot, you're still doing it for the effect. The line between tipsy and drunk is completely objective; it doesn't really exist. If you drink you're doing it to get drunk, ie. to feel its effects.
"You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high." Such crap. Makes me kinda mad.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little bit on this one. The vast majority of people who drink do so without the intention of getting drunk. I frequently have a beer or a glass of wine with a meal for the flavor. One drink isn't going to do anything to most people effects-wise.
Marijuana, on the other hand, while I do enjoy the flavor, the act of smoking, etc, I smoke mainly for the "high". I think most people would be about the same. Sure, there are some people, like those that use it medically, that are not using marijuana recreationally, but they are still seeking it's effects (the "high") to relieve their pain, stimulate or appetite, or what have you.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall



Registered: 08/25/06
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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: skroomadoom]
#7488315 - 10/05/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
What the United States would be like with legal recreational drugs is unknown.
So what the fuck is beer and whiskey?
I love how everyone convieniently forgets alcohol is a recreational drug.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: skroomadoom]
#7488328 - 10/05/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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> I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little bit on this one.
The article is accurate and your response indicates that you almost see it. Some people drink to get drunk. Some people drink to escape their problems. Some people drink because they like the taste of alcohol. Some people drink because they are addicted to alcohol. All of these hold true for smoking cannabis as well. The ratios may be different, but the reasons are the same. However, the bigger question is, why is it illegal to get high when it isn't illegal to get drunk?
Remember, not everybody is like you.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate




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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: skroomadoom]
#7488656 - 10/05/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
skroomadoom said: Marijuana, on the other hand, while I do enjoy the flavor, the act of smoking, etc, I smoke mainly for the "high". I think most people would be about the same. Sure, there are some people, like those that use it medically, that are not using marijuana recreationally, but they are still seeking it's effects (the "high") to relieve their pain, stimulate or appetite, or what have you.
What do you mean by 'high'? First off, the author of the article is assuming that being high is like being drunk. It's not. You're still able to function properly, although I personally don't like being too high because I use drugs when working (at home, not at work) and can't sit down inebriated staring at the sun (although those times are nice too).
When legalized, most people will smoke on occasion, and while many people will smoke with the goal of getting as fucked up as possible, this will not be the norm, much like how drinking to get fucked up isn't the norm.
I used to smoke to get high when I began smoking and used to buy in low quantities. When i pay $20-30 a gram, I want to FEEL like I got my money's worth. It feels like a waste to pay so much for it and then only smoke enough to relax, don't you think? This is why my friends all smoke a lot. Now if I ever smoke, it's only a few tokes; Enough to relax and get the "expanded headspace" feeling.
When buying and selling illegal drugs, smugglers, dealers, consumers are all looking for highest potency to get their money's worth. This is due to the illegality of the product. Nobody would think about smuggling beer if alcohol was illegal.
When legalized, even though I'd certainly get high once in a while, I'd mainly be interested in having a supply of weaker forms of weed for regular use. Right now I drink wine every now and then. When legalized, I'd just substitute or supplement this with a mild thc buzz. Maybe I'll start making thc wine and get more into oral ingestion, which I currently avoid just because it's too expensive.
About medicinal pot: many many patients use it just as medicine. Yes people abuse it, but people abuse pharmaceuticals and OTC drugs, foods and everything else. Right now we have people taking oxycontin and morphine for pain management. It's silly to assume that every single one of these patients is just using the drugs to "feel high." Most people don't care about the psychoactive effects of drugs and only use them as prescribed, be them weed or heroin. They'll use them and go about their day as usual, and any effects they feel other than what the drug was prescribed for is regarded as a side effect of that drug.
This is a dumb argument to begin with: You can smoke 1/4th a joint or less to not feel "high" but mildly buzzed or "tipsy" as some of my friends describe it. I don't understand where the middle between being sober and being high went..
and as Seuss said.. what's wrong if people want to get high anyway?
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Visionary Tools



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: Seuss]
#7488664 - 10/05/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like my cannabis lollypops. Tasty stuff.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7490091 - 10/05/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I don't really inhale pot. I just like the taste!
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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SevenFlowers
Mystic Mixtec

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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: veggie]
#7493517 - 10/07/07 03:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rob Robb said: Despite the claims of incautious legalization advocates, usage would undoubtedly go up as prices dropped, product became more available and convenient, and risks disappeared.
Is price that big an issue? You know it would be heavily taxed. This would generate revenue for the state instead of wasting it on the imprisonment of harmless citizens. I don't think the considerable gain in available man-hours of police should mean loss of jobs but rather a gain in the prevention of other, more serious, crime.
-------------------- ... just some food for thought.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: SevenFlowers]
#7493784 - 10/07/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SevenFlowers said:
Quote:
Rob Robb said: Despite the claims of incautious legalization advocates, usage would undoubtedly go up as prices dropped, product became more available and convenient, and risks disappeared.
Is price that big an issue? You know it would be heavily taxed. This would generate revenue for the state instead of wasting it on the imprisonment of harmless citizens. I don't think the considerable gain in available man-hours of police should mean loss of jobs but rather a gain in the prevention of other, more serious, crime.
Seuss said: > I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little bit on this one.
The article is accurate and your response indicates that you almost see it. Some people drink to get drunk. Some people drink to escape their problems. Some people drink because they like the taste of alcohol. Some people drink because they are addicted to alcohol. All of these hold true for smoking cannabis as well. The ratios may be different, but the reasons are the same. However, the bigger question is, why is it illegal to get high when it isn't illegal to get drunk?
I agree with both of you.
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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virus1824
Mr Mushroom



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Re: It's time to consider legalizing marijuana [AZ] [Re: veggie]
#10114705 - 04/06/09 04:11 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Legalization of even marijuana would be a big step into the unknown.
not really since it has been done in the netherlands. and it worked out quite well. until they intensified finding groweries (growing weed mroe than 5 plants is illegal go figure) and since theres less weed and still the same shops to get it. they put all sorts of nasty shit like glass and varnish to make it look prettier and make it more heavy!
Yea go police make our lives more safe!
-------------------- A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
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