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InvisibleJopo
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man
Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 309
Loc: Canada
coir/potency/straw as a nutrient
    #7486819 - 10/04/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey there, i think i'm going to try this tek out...

i've heard that using coir will tend to less'n the mushrooms natural potency...given that i'm using straw and possibly using the coir as a casing layer will it still have the same effect on the mushrooms, or does the straw give it the nutrients it needs to be potent as possible..
plus, what is lime flour for, does it carry nutrients, or what is pH exactly?


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Offlinegerbletits
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Jopo]
    #7486871 - 10/04/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution. The letters "pH" stand for Potential of Hydrogen.


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Offlineeleven34
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: gerbletits]
    #7486943 - 10/04/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is nothing out there that states coir will lower the potency. Coir is a great substrate. Not to be used as a casing layer. Casing layers are for moisture control. (no nutrients).


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: eleven34]
    #7487444 - 10/05/07 06:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eleven34 said:
There is nothing out there that states coir will lower the potency.




+1

I think the original poster may have read something about how coir, as a substrate, will have less flushes than compost or manure based substrates but in terms of potency, there is none.


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
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------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mycocurious]
    #7487491 - 10/05/07 06:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Potency is not a function of substrate. Coir is just fine, as is manure, straw, compost, worm castings, coffee grinds, etc.
RR


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InvisibleJopo
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man
Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 309
Loc: Canada
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7487543 - 10/05/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well, researching throughout a few posts on here, i have come past others saying that coir, without the amount of nutrients that manure/ straw and other material has, The mushrooms will come out less potent. Not saying i read accurate information, but i deffinately read it.

also i forget to say i was doing shroomgods straw tek.
i don't need to hook up a humidifier right, just misting is fine?
and do i keep the humidity up while the straw is colonizing, misting..or is the humidity change when put to fruiting significant to change.


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InvisibleJopo
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man
Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 309
Loc: Canada
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7487544 - 10/05/07 07:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well, researching throughout a few posts on here, i have come past others saying that coir, without the amount of nutrients that manure/ straw and other material has, The mushrooms will come out less potent. Not saying i read accurate information, but i deffinately read it.

also i forget to say i was doing shroomgods straw tek.
i don't need to hook up a humidifier right, just misting is fine?
and do i keep the humidity up while the straw is colonizing, misting..or is the humidity change when put to fruiting significant to change.


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OfflineButterWeasels
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Jopo]
    #7487571 - 10/05/07 07:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So a cheap and easy way to fix that is to go to starbucks and ask them for coffee grinds (they're free). 80% coir to 20% coffee grinds (adds nitrogen to the substrate which will produce more flushes like poo does). Add some hydrated lime too, it will raise the PH making the sub less acidic, less prone to contamination.

Doesnt really matter what you case with as long as some lime is added to it. I think im going to do a MGMC 50/50 with verm for my casing should be pretty tight assuming my tub doesnt start pinning early (would be cool i'd get fruits quicker, but less of them :frown: only the 2nd flush should be better when I case it.

but yea im tired of hearing about coirs potency, i've eaten fruits grown off coir and they were just as good as the rest. But in later flushes I've heard potency drops due to coirs low nitrogen content. Its kind of like making a poo-like substrate without the hassle of buying expensive poo online or collecting it in a field of something. plus the coir is pretty easy to pasteurize. Iduno I've always liked coir as a sub so I'm gunna go all out eventually and see what it can do if the right nutes are added in.


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Invisiblemr.coolass
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 77
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: ButterWeasels]
    #7487598 - 10/05/07 07:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

coffee grinds and hydrated lime, sounds good...you can find hydrated lime in gardening supplies right?
lime flour as an alternative?


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Jopo]
    #7487634 - 10/05/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jopo said:
Not saying i read accurate information, but i deffinately read it.




That's good, and the fact that you questioned it again in a public forum is awesome...  I give mad-kudo's to people who don't except what they read as fact.

The archives in this forum are invaluable, but you have to realize that there is a lot of very ...well intentioned... misinformation and superstition that circulates as new people come on and post what they believe they understood from an article/tek they just read, but have not done themselves.

I'm still occasionally guilty of it - hence my sig at the bottom - but I take my lumps for it.  Just remember "he who teaches is twice taught" because having to explain what you understand to someone else, in a way they can understand it, really cements it into your brain.

---
I'm all PLUR right now for no good reason, but it is Friday.  :grin:


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineVegan
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7487761 - 10/05/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Potency is not a function of substrate. Coir is just fine, as is manure, straw, compost, worm castings, coffee grinds, etc.
RR




SO can ANYONE tell us what is Potency a function of?
RR your opinion would be also appreciated.


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Jopo]
    #7487766 - 10/05/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm all PLUR right now for no good reason, but it is Friday. :grin:




:stoned:

:grin:

Coir works just great all by itself for me. I quit drinking coffee, so I  quit keeping it on hand for my mycology experiments as well, and I have not noticed a difference between 10-20% coffee/coir and straight coir.

Also, leave out the hydrated lime...There is no need to adjust the PH, so no need for the lime.


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OfflineDrowse
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: simplemachine]
    #7487878 - 10/05/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Coir works just great all by itself for me. I quit drinking coffee, so I quit keeping it on hand for my mycology experiments as well, and I have not noticed a difference between 10-20% coffee/coir and straight coir.

Also, leave out the hydrated lime...There is no need to adjust the PH, so no need for the lime.




Not to question you, but can we get a few more opinions on the addition of hydrated lime?


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Drowse]
    #7487960 - 10/05/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Depends on how much coffee you add since coffee is slightly acidic if you add a shit ton then you will have to add lime if not then there isnt a need for lime.


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OfflineDrowse
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7488155 - 10/05/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xaxphaanes said:
Depends on how much coffee you add since coffee is slightly acidic if you add a shit ton then you will have to add lime if not then there isnt a need for lime.




Using WBS as spawn, then using an 80 coir / 20 coffee grounds as substrate, how many parts lime should I add?


--------------------
"... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Drowse]
    #7488424 - 10/05/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Used coffee grounds aren't really acidic. The bulk of the acidity gets washed through during brewing and goes out of the grounds & into your stomach.

Is there really a need to add lime because you use used coffee grounds?


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Invisiblemr.coolass
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 77
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7488533 - 10/05/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

VisionsToReality said:
Used coffee grounds aren't really acidic. The bulk of the acidity gets washed through during brewing and goes out of the grounds & into your stomach.




are we talking about used coffee grinds, or fresh beans thrown in the grinder than add to the coir and pasturized/
i'll have to try the 80/20 coir/coffee...with maybe a dash of lime, but theirs probably no need


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mr.coolass]
    #7488661 - 10/05/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

O ok I was thinking ground and brewed coffee grounds


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mr.coolass]
    #7488708 - 10/05/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

SPENT coffee grounds...

Starbucks doesn't give away the fresh ones.


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Invisiblemr.coolass
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man

Registered: 10/02/07
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: simplemachine]
    #7488857 - 10/05/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what about fresh but defective/deformed?:stoned:


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mr.coolass]
    #7489728 - 10/05/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't use hydrated lime in any of my substrates, as far as I know/am concerned, the purpose of hydrated lime is to make the mixture as close to pH neutral if not just a tad on the alkaline side because very few (common) contaminates can germinate in that hostile environment. As an aside, it's also why we try to make the casing as non-nutritious as possible.

And our targeted mycelium don't like a pH neutral / alkaline environment any more than any contaminates would either but the idea is that after it's colonized the wonderfully nutritious and slightly acidic substrate it will have no problem powering through the non-nutritious and less acidic casing mixture to find it's way to fruit.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Drowse]
    #7490078 - 10/05/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Drowse said:
Quote:

xaxphaanes said:
Depends on how much coffee you add since coffee is slightly acidic if you add a shit ton then you will have to add lime if not then there isnt a need for lime.




Using WBS as spawn, then using an 80 coir / 20 coffee grounds as substrate, how many parts lime should I add?





using that ratio you shouldnt need lime i was talking about if you are using somewhere around 50/50 is where the lime would come in since spent coffee grounds are about 6.5 ph. slightly acidic.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7490582 - 10/06/07 06:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xaxphaanes said:
using that ratio you shouldnt need lime i was talking about if you are using somewhere around 50/50 is where the lime would come in since spent coffee grounds are about 6.5 ph. slightly acidic.




A substrate should have an ideal pH between 6.0-6.5, so that would be fine, without lime. Our mycelium, like most other mycelium, favor slightly acidic substrates to grow in.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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InvisibleJopo
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man
Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 309
Loc: Canada
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mycocurious]
    #7490820 - 10/06/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thats good to know, i wasn't all for getting lime or spent coffee grinds anyways..probably just try casing my straw streight coir..
does straw contam easily? such a big project turning to shit, thats never a good feeling.

and when the straw is spawned/colonizing do i have to mist the sides and keep the HU/ up or is that just recommended when it hits fruiting stages after cased?


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mycocurious]
    #7490974 - 10/06/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
Quote:

xaxphaanes said:
using that ratio you shouldnt need lime i was talking about if you are using somewhere around 50/50 is where the lime would come in since spent coffee grounds are about 6.5 ph. slightly acidic.




A substrate should have an ideal pH between 6.0-6.5, so that would be fine, without lime. Our mycelium, like most other mycelium, favor slightly acidic substrates to grow in.





If using a high ratio of coffee grounds it would be more 4.0-5.5 ph which is very nice to grow some trich in.If that was the case the use of lime would be needed.Use a ph meter to determine where you are at.


--------------------
"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: Vegan]
    #7491034 - 10/06/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vegan said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Potency is not a function of substrate. Coir is just fine, as is manure, straw, compost, worm castings, coffee grinds, etc.
RR




SO can ANYONE tell us what is Potency a function of?
RR your opinion would be also appreciated.




Far from having any evidence other than theory, i've come to conclude that your mushroom potency is decided before your spores ever germinate.
The potency is likely decided by DNA, just as your own DNA tells your body how many skin cells to produce, the mushrooms' DNA tells it how much psilocybin to produce.
Possibly, but unlikely, you might be able to get your mushrooms to absorb chemicals from your substrate such as tryptamine, but this is hardly practical.
When using a multispore inoculation on something such as poo, you might end up with some exceptionally potent mushrooms, but this probably because they're grown in ideal conditions, provoking the growth of strong mycelium that fruits thick mushrooms.
When you have thicker mushrooms you have heavier mushrooms and usually heavier mushrooms means you have more tissue and where you have more tissue you're likely to have more psilocybin
versus less meaty mushrooms.


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Invisiblemr.coolass
Super RocketMr.MagicMushroom Man

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 77
Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: anarchOi]
    #7491063 - 10/06/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i would have thought smaller mushrooms because the psilocybin would be more concentrated and condensed...
but it was just a thought.

anybody for misting sides of tub as straw colonizes before fruiting...or is this not a good idea?


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: coir/potency/straw as a nutrient [Re: mr.coolass]
    #7492368 - 10/06/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i didn't say larger, i said fatter as in more meaty, like not hollow


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