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Offlinekotik
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RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000
    #7485751 - 10/04/07 07:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000

source: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/04/riaa-wins-first-ever-file-sharing-case-to-go-to-trial-awarded/

Quote:

the jury fournd Jammie Thomas, a single mother from Minnesota, liable for willful copyright infringement and awarded the RIAA plaintiffs $222,000 -- that's $9,250 for each of the 24 songs she was alleged to have made available on Kazaa, for those of you keeping track at home, and probably something like, oh, say, $222,000 more than she should have had to pay, since the RIAA plaintiffs weren't required to show that Thomas had a file-sharing program installed on her machine or that she was even the person using the Kazaa account in question.




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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: kotik]
    #7485794 - 10/04/07 07:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

how could you NOT require that proof and how could her lawyer have
allowed them to get away with that.

I smell an appeal.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: afoaf]
    #7486056 - 10/04/07 09:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

personally, I think the people with the most to lose are just like this - mothers, grandmothers, children, for the most part, the innocent user - aware it's illegal, but not smart enough to really understand the law.

Anyone that even has a mild grasp on the technology, or the law could put up enough resistance to push the RIAA away, and onto someone more naive.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: kotik]
    #7486120 - 10/04/07 09:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

the more I read about this lady on slashdot the more it sounds like the
conviction was sound, but I still feel that at $9250 per song included
in the charge, they are way off with the $220,000 fine for 24 songs.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: afoaf]
    #7486150 - 10/04/07 09:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

just another reason not to use p2p


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: kotik]
    #7486173 - 10/04/07 09:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I am all about copyrights, trademarks, ect......


but the record industry has fucking shot themselves in the foot charging 13 - 16 dollars a pop for cds............


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7494097 - 10/07/07 01:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That's a little extreme. $222,000 for what? Those assholes still made their money at the expense of the band.

Too bad the local DJ from my area didn't hear about that. He personally paid for the legal defense for a girl and her mom in NYC.

Yet another reason why trade friendly bands are so much better.


--------------------
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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: kotik]
    #7494840 - 10/07/07 05:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
just another reason not to use p2p




no.. just another reason not to SHARE your music. Leech all you want though :wink:

Screw being fair. I ain't gettin fined 200k


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: BrAiN]
    #7494939 - 10/07/07 05:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

And there's at least 3 douchebags in this thread who are paying nothing for the new Radiohead, in spite of the fact that absolutely none of the money would go to an eeeeeevil corporaaaaaation.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7493829/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7499122 - 10/08/07 09:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

NEW RADIOHEAD ALBUM!! WOOOOOO!!!

And just because i leech doesn't mean I don';t buy anything. if it's worth it I'll buy it.

I'll probably end up buying the new radiohead this week


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7500558 - 10/09/07 07:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And there's at least 3 douchebags in this thread who are paying nothing for the new Radiohead, in spite of the fact that absolutely none of the money would go to an eeeeeevil corporaaaaaation.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7493829/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD




so I'm a douchebag for not wanting to potentially waste my money on an album chances are I won't be satisfied with?

you're fucking crazy

not to mention, I stated that if it's good I'd buy the box set. as well as if they weren't aware some people wouldn't pay for it, they wouldn't offer it for free


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: demiu5]
    #7500623 - 10/09/07 08:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

In the early days of computing, back when programs were saved by punching holes in a long roll of paper (before punch cards), a company released a version of the BASIC programming language. The language made it very easy for non-technical people to write programs. Unfortunately, the company wanted several thousand dollars for the software (would be tens of thousands of dollars today with inflation) and the software was very buggy as well.

When people started to copy the software rather than pay for it, the company went crazy, threatened lawsuits, etc. A couple of guys at MIT were upset about this and wrote their own non-buggy version of the software and gave it away for free. They were amazed when money started to come in the mail. On average, people would send in $20 (much more than that today with inflation) with a thank you note. The guys at MIT realized that people will pay for software rather than copy it as long as the software is reasonably priced.

The recording industry has to be freaking out over the Radiohead experiment. Radiohead completely skipped the publishing process, which leaves the RIAA out of the picture. If the experiment works, more bands will follow, and the RIAA could become a thing of the past. The RIAA takes the majority of profits from music sales, leaving the scraps to the artists that actually create the music. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this does. Although I didn't download the album, I did send them a few pounds (via their website) as a thank you.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: Seuss]
    #7500733 - 10/09/07 09:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I can't wait to see how much shit they sell just by word of mouth


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: demiu5]
    #7501829 - 10/09/07 04:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And there's at least 3 douchebags in this thread who are paying nothing for the new Radiohead, in spite of the fact that absolutely none of the money would go to an eeeeeevil corporaaaaaation.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7493829/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD




so I'm a douchebag for not wanting to potentially waste my money on an album chances are I won't be satisfied with?

you're fucking crazy

not to mention, I stated that if it's good I'd buy the box set. as well as if they weren't aware some people wouldn't pay for it, they wouldn't offer it for free




You read what I wrote. You could have checked it out without downloading it.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7504453 - 10/10/07 09:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If you think about it economically, there is no "Cost of Goods Sold" that is lost when someone pirates music. People compare mp3 leeching to shoplifting. In shoplifting, you (the store owner paid 10 bucks for this item that sells for 30 bucks). Sure you only lost the 10 dollars you paid for it, but you also have an opportunity cost of 20 bucks. That item, which is in limited quantity) COULD have been sold to make 20 MORE dollars.

When you're pirating music, there's no lOPPORTUNITY COST because (a) you're not getting a physical product, just information really and (b) there is an unlimited quantity. I guess there would be some negligible cost of goods sold like the studio time in making the album. But anyways... You don't miss out on making 20 bucks profit because you COULD have sold that cd to someone else. So because you're not technically LOSING any mony (through COGS or OCost), then if that "download" would have triggered you to buy something else which made them a profit (tshirt, poster, etc) then the pirating, in this situation, actually caused profits to balance out.

If you hadn't downloaded those cd's (just any arbitraty cd), you probasbly never would have gotten into that group and bought their tshirt for 20 bucks (so the label gets 10 bucks profit off the shirt instead of the cd).

It would be interesting if the RIAA released sales reports not just for music, but for band related merchandise. I bet one could almost justify the loss on CD sales. The money's still flowing, just somewhere else. The RIAA needs to figure that out and get into THAT business instead of the business of just trying to scare ppl straight, making their cause that much LESS supported.

The fines imposed by the RIAA are completely ridiculous when you think about the real "COST" to the record companies of having their music "Stolen".

How the hell do you "sell" music anyways?

John Cage is rolling over in his grave... uhh... if he's dead... I have no idea :P

I'm babbling


Edited by BrAiN (10/10/07 09:42 AM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: kotik]
    #7505044 - 10/10/07 02:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: afoaf]
    #7505104 - 10/10/07 02:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hegg, a married father of two who said he formerly raced snowmobiles, said he has never been on the internet. He said his wife is an administrator at a local hospital and an "internet guru."




Quote:

But Hegg said the jury in U.S. District Court in Duluth would have found her liable even if the plaintiffs had been required to establish that Kazaa users had actually downloaded the music.

"It would have been a lot harder to make the decision," he said. "Yes, we would have reached the same result."




:whatever:

Coming from a guy who has never been on the internet before that is a bold statement to make.

Whats funny is this guys wife probably pirates music as well as most of the other people on the jury.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: BrAiN]
    #7505751 - 10/10/07 05:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
If you think about it economically, there is no "Cost of Goods Sold" that is lost when someone pirates music. People compare mp3 leeching to shoplifting. In shoplifting, you (the store owner paid 10 bucks for this item that sells for 30 bucks). Sure you only lost the 10 dollars you paid for it, but you also have an opportunity cost of 20 bucks. That item, which is in limited quantity) COULD have been sold to make 20 MORE dollars.




I'm not interested in what people compare it to. I don't care. I will make my own argument, if you don't mind. Thank you. No cost of goods sold? Bullshit. Are the only costs of pharmaceuticals those directly related to manufacture? No. There are tremendous research costs. Let's make that analogy, since it is exactly factually and legally correct. It is called intellectual property. All the effort of composing and practicing is naught to you? With a great risk that it will net nothing in the end? Simplistic and false comparisons (see straw man) to wood dowels are irrelevant. What about creative use of said wood dowels in a truly unique and clever toy. Does the inventor deserve nothing to you? Very little of the value of that toy is directly related to manufacturing costs.
Quote:



When you're pirating music, there's no lOPPORTUNITY COST because (a) you're not getting a physical product, just information really and (b) there is an unlimited quantity. I guess there would be some negligible cost of goods sold like the studio time in making the album. But anyways... You don't miss out on making 20 bucks profit because you COULD have sold that cd to someone else. So because you're not technically LOSING any mony (through COGS or OCost), then if that "download" would have triggered you to buy something else which made them a profit (tshirt, poster, etc) then the pirating, in this situation, actually caused profits to balance out.




This is all very nice but it fails to take into account what the OWNER of the intellectual property wants, which in most cases is for you to pay him for his work. If he chooses to give it away, that is fine. If HE/SHE deems it in his interest to allow you free access to his product that is HIS/HER decision alone to make. NOT YOURS. Who the fuck do you think you are? (aside from an acknowledged thief by the laws of the land). YOU have zero rights to his product. Except to do without.
Quote:



If you hadn't downloaded those cd's (just any arbitraty cd), you probasbly never would have gotten into that group and bought their tshirt for 20 bucks (so the label gets 10 bucks profit off the shirt instead of the cd).




Bullshit. And, once again, not your decision to make.
Quote:



It would be interesting if the RIAA released sales reports not just for music, but for band related merchandise. I bet one could almost justify the loss on CD sales. The money's still flowing, just somewhere else. The RIAA needs to figure that out and get into THAT business instead of the business of just trying to scare ppl straight, making their cause that much LESS supported.




Not your justification to make. They have made a different judgment. You are nobody. The RIAA doesn't NEED to do anything of the kind. Your years of Business studies and MBAs and Nobel Prizes in Economics give you exactly zero right to determine their business model. Sorry.
Quote:



The fines imposed by the RIAA are completely ridiculous when you think about the real "COST" to the record companies of having their music "Stolen".




They are what is called punitive. It's a concept. If you want to avoid them you have a simple recourse. DO WITHOUT. Here's what you CAN do. Sing the song over and over again in your head. THAT is free.
Quote:



How the hell do you "sell" music anyways?

John Cage is rolling over in his grave... uhh... if he's dead... I have no idea :P

I'm babbling




Pretty much.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7507118 - 10/10/07 11:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The owner of the intellectual party should be the person who came up with it.. the musical artist in this case.

You obviously know jack shit about art.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
If you think about it economically, there is no "Cost of Goods Sold" that is lost when someone pirates music. People compare mp3 leeching to shoplifting. In shoplifting, you (the store owner paid 10 bucks for this item that sells for 30 bucks). Sure you only lost the 10 dollars you paid for it, but you also have an opportunity cost of 20 bucks. That item, which is in limited quantity) COULD have been sold to make 20 MORE dollars.




I'm not interested in what people compare it to. I don't care. I will make my own argument, if you don't mind. Thank you. No cost of goods sold? Bullshit. Are the only costs of pharmaceuticals those directly related to manufacture? No. There are tremendous research costs. Let's make that analogy, since it is exactly factually and legally correct. It is called intellectual property. All the effort of composing and practicing is naught to you? With a great risk that it will net nothing in the end? Simplistic and false comparisons (see straw man) to wood dowels are irrelevant. What about creative use of said wood dowels in a truly unique and clever toy. Does the inventor deserve nothing to you? Very little of the value of that toy is directly related to manufacturing costs.
Quote:



When you're pirating music, there's no lOPPORTUNITY COST because (a) you're not getting a physical product, just information really and (b) there is an unlimited quantity. I guess there would be some negligible cost of goods sold like the studio time in making the album. But anyways... You don't miss out on making 20 bucks profit because you COULD have sold that cd to someone else. So because you're not technically LOSING any mony (through COGS or OCost), then if that "download" would have triggered you to buy something else which made them a profit (tshirt, poster, etc) then the pirating, in this situation, actually caused profits to balance out.




This is all very nice but it fails to take into account what the OWNER of the intellectual property wants, which in most cases is for you to pay him for his work. If he chooses to give it away, that is fine. If HE/SHE deems it in his interest to allow you free access to his product that is HIS/HER decision alone to make. NOT YOURS. Who the fuck do you think you are? (aside from an acknowledged thief by the laws of the land). YOU have zero rights to his product. Except to do without.
Quote:



If you hadn't downloaded those cd's (just any arbitraty cd), you probasbly never would have gotten into that group and bought their tshirt for 20 bucks (so the label gets 10 bucks profit off the shirt instead of the cd).




Bullshit. And, once again, not your decision to make.
Quote:



It would be interesting if the RIAA released sales reports not just for music, but for band related merchandise. I bet one could almost justify the loss on CD sales. The money's still flowing, just somewhere else. The RIAA needs to figure that out and get into THAT business instead of the business of just trying to scare ppl straight, making their cause that much LESS supported.




Not your justification to make. They have made a different judgment. You are nobody. The RIAA doesn't NEED to do anything of the kind. Your years of Business studies and MBAs and Nobel Prizes in Economics give you exactly zero right to determine their business model. Sorry.
Quote:



The fines imposed by the RIAA are completely ridiculous when you think about the real "COST" to the record companies of having their music "Stolen".




They are what is called punitive. It's a concept. If you want to avoid them you have a simple recourse. DO WITHOUT. Here's what you CAN do. Sing the song over and over again in your head. THAT is free.
Quote:



How the hell do you "sell" music anyways?

John Cage is rolling over in his grave... uhh... if he's dead... I have no idea :P

I'm babbling




Pretty much.




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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7507124 - 10/10/07 11:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's called punative







yea... and we have this little piece of paper that no one pays attention to anymore. It's called the constitution. It's supposed to protect us from these things called "cruel and unusual punishments". Charging someone 150,000 dollars PER song that's made availalbe for ppl to download who will never have bought the album probably anyways which might cost some rich guys an extra 2 cents in their paychecks.... sounds a bit cruel and unusual to me.

Go ahead and pull out another "not your call to make" out of your ass. That argument doesn't even made any sense. It IS my call to make? Who am I? An american citizen and a voter. I'm one of the governed and someone who votes on laws and leaders that form this government.

This case was called by a jury, fellow citizens like you and me who are called upon to make their own opinions.

You have this "the law is the law" attitude. Well look at you, you pretentious jerk. You're on a message board dealing with MUSHROOMS. Don't tell me you've never done anything illegal or even smoked a joint (something that can get you YEARS in jail in some states). If you ever find yourself behind bars for 5 years because of a little pot or whatever then don't go crying to anyone about your sentance.. because "it's just punative".


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OfflinePinballWizard
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: BrAiN]
    #7507213 - 10/10/07 11:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Didn't John Cage sue someone for including him in the songwriting credits on their tribute to 4'33?


Edited by PinballWizard (10/10/07 11:39 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: PinballWizard]
    #7507219 - 10/10/07 11:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Wouldn't suprise me, given his philosophy about music.


BTW dude I've always loved your avatar. Never change it :P


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: BrAiN]
    #7507880 - 10/11/07 06:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> Well look at you, you pretentious jerk.

Please read the forum rules regarding flames. If you can't make your point without name calling, then perhaps your point isn't very strong to begin with?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: BrAiN]
    #7509728 - 10/11/07 07:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
The owner of the intellectual party should be the person who came up with it.. the musical artist in this case.




Aside from the fact that this makes no real sense, I think I agree with you. And he has the right to sell it too. In which case somebody else becomes the "owner of the intellectual party". Whatever that is.
Quote:



You obviously know jack shit about art.




Whatever. I certainly thought your beginning sentence was VERY artistic. In a nonsensical way. Pure poetry. Couldn't have said it better myself, whatever it was you were trying to say. Thank you Professor Corey.

Also, you misquoted me in another post. I actually know how to spell "punitive".


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: Seuss]
    #7509741 - 10/11/07 07:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Well look at you, you pretentious jerk.

Please read the forum rules regarding flames. If you can't make your point without name calling, then perhaps your point isn't very strong to begin with?




Gave me a "pretentious cunt" rating. At least he spelled that right. Must've known he was in over his head and used spell check.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: RIAA wins first-ever file-sharing case to go to trial, awarded $222,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7509985 - 10/11/07 08:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

gosh, how do you misspell cunt!?


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