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Offlinetrippindad82
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Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
Loc: down, down the hole
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
coir questions
    #7484077 - 10/04/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am getting things prepared so that I can pasteurize my coir in the next couple of days. A few questions as I have read a number of teks.

1. Is coffee alone an acceptable additive or should I also add blood meal and/or something else? And if these things should be added can I get away with just coffee for the current grow?

2. I have read a number of ways to hydrate the coir. Am I safe just adding a gallon of 170 degree water or is it better to manually bring it up to field capacity?

Thank you all for the help.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: trippindad82]
    #7484295 - 10/04/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I use 80/20 coir all the time now and I love it.
I use spent grounds that I get from Starbucks.

I just hydrated a brick of coir last night and I
used a half gallon not a gallon. I like my substarte a little
on the dry side becaise it seems like the myc eats it up fatser that
way and I think RR has posted the same findings.
I just use warm water to hydrate for around 20 minutes or more.

Then I past the mix in 180 deg water (I found the sweetspot on
my stove) using the pot-in-pot method for 2 hours. Usually brings it
up to around 160 after 2 hours. I shut off the burner and pull
the pot out and let it sit covered till cool, then I throw
it in the fridge and use the next day, No contams yet and I did
30 invitro bags this way.


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OfflineButterWeasels
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Re: coir questions [Re: Mycodood]
    #7484346 - 10/04/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

do you just ask them for the old coffee grounds or do u work there and take them home without people noticing. and if you ask them for spent coffee grounds what do you tell them your using them for as to not be obvious. thats the one ingredient i need since i never drink coffee.

and yea i used straight coir as a sub, it looked a little dry but it seems to be working just fine if not better than an overly wet sub. dry is better than wet any day, fuck contams.


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-==Classic Cakes Log==-


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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: trippindad82]
    #7484369 - 10/04/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Actually you just go in and ask them for some and they give it to you.
It's part of their "Social Responsibility" program.

Check this out:

http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/compost.asp


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: coir questions [Re: Mycodood]
    #7484390 - 10/04/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Is just adding 160 degree water enough to pasteurize? Or should I buy some more quart jars and do the RR tek in the PC. I'd rather not do the latter right now, I just want the most successful plan of attack.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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OfflineButterWeasels
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Re: coir questions [Re: trippindad82]
    #7484459 - 10/04/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thats badass that starbucks gives away coffee grounds, the only thing i'd buy from them is free go figure :laugh:

Edit: pretty high when i wrote this but its gone so people dont do the wrong thing. im kind of a newb at this but i try lol. but yea iduno why i said sterilize the casing layer i think i read it somewhere where sum1 said theyre casing gets contaminated alot when they pasteurize.


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-==Classic Cakes Log==-


Edited by ButterWeasels (10/04/07 03:39 PM)


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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: ButterWeasels]
    #7484660 - 10/04/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ButterWeasels said:
I would add 160-170 degree water to the substrate in a bucket and keep the lid on for 1-2 hours no more no less. If your making a casing then hydrate it, put it in jars or autoclave bags and sterilize like you would spawn jars.

Substrate = Pasteurize for 1-2 hours
Casing = Sterilize

edit: Thats badass that starbucks gives away coffee grounds, the only thing i'd buy from them is free go figure :laugh:




I disagree with both of these statements (in a purely constructive way)

From Stamets and Chilton:

"The casing layer:

The selection of specific microbial groups by mycelial metabolites
is an excellent example of symbiosis. These same bacteria give
the casing a natural resistance to competitors. In this respect,
a sterilized casing lacks beneficial microorganisms and has
little resistance to contaminants".

"There are two basic problems with using soil for casing - the
increased contamination risk from fungi and nematodes, and the loss
of structure after repeated waterings. Cultivators can reduce the
risk of contamination by pasteurization, a process whereby the
moistened casing soil is thoroughly and evenly steamed for two hours
at 160 degrees F. An alternative method is to bake the moist soil in
an oven for two hours at 160 degrees F".


If you just pour 160 degree water in a bucket it is going to lose
temp really fast over 2 hours unless you maintain it.

The method that I posed brings the etire batch of substrate to temp
in the first hour and then it retains that heat for obout an hour more.


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Offlineanomaly420
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Registered: 09/07/07
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Re: coir questions [Re: ButterWeasels]
    #7484742 - 10/04/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ButterWeasels said:
I would add 160-170 degree water to the substrate in a bucket and keep the lid on for 1-2 hours no more no less. If your making a casing then hydrate it, put it in jars or autoclave bags and sterilize like you would spawn jars.

Substrate = Pasteurize for 1-2 hours
Casing = Sterilize

edit: Thats badass that starbucks gives away coffee grounds, the only thing i'd buy from them is free go figure :laugh:





You're supposed to sterilize substrate... and pasteurize bulk substrates and casings.


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Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door.



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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: anomaly420]
    #7484815 - 10/04/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:
Quote:

You're supposed to sterilize substrate... and pasteurize bulk substrates and casings.




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Invisiblemycocurious
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Registered: 02/09/07
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Re: coir questions [Re: Mycodood]
    #7485389 - 10/04/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, I would suggest that you pasteurize both. The only thing that needs sterilization is the initial spawn medium (grains, brf, etc.)

And offhandedly, in terms of casing mixtures, sterilization has one significant downfall in that it "cooks" the mixture. Peat moss - decomposed sphagnum moss - is relatively non-nutritious but if add enough heat to the point of cooking it you'll cause it break down further into simpler charbohydrates and at that point it _will_ have some nutritious content to it.

And one of primary purposes of a casing layer - beyond being a "humidity blanket" is to provide a non-nutritious, inhospitable environment for any wayward contaminates that may find their way into your greenhouse.

To some extent, the same is true with your substrate, if you sterilize it, you'll be cooking out some of the nutritional-value in the process and making the mixture much less appealing to your mycelium which thrive on their ability to consume and devour their food themselves.

A good experiment of this would be to bring a couple cup of milks to a boil for about ten minutes - sterilizing it. After it cools, compare it to the taste to pasteurized milk in your fridge.


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlineanomaly420
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Registered: 09/07/07
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: coir questions [Re: mycocurious]
    #7486357 - 10/04/07 08:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
Actually, I would suggest that you pasteurize both. The only thing that needs sterilization is the initial spawn medium (grains, brf, etc.)





When I said only the substrate gets sterilized, I was referring to what you call the "initial spawn medium". Bulk substrate would be your hpoo/straw, coir, etc. that you spawn to, which would be pasteurized, and also the casing would be pasteurized.


--------------------
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door.



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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: anomaly420]
    #7487562 - 10/05/07 07:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:



When I said only the substrate gets sterilized, I was referring to what you call the "initial spawn medium". Bulk substrate would be your hpoo/straw, coir, etc. that you spawn to, which would be pasteurized, and also the casing would be pasteurized.





Actually when I first read you're post I was like "what is he
talking about?" but then figured it out pretty fast.
Nice to see someone actually using the right terms...
substrate=wbs/rye etc...
bulk substrates=hpoo/coir etc..

Nice!


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OfflineDrowse
Rev B.


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 91
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: coir questions [Re: Mycodood]
    #7487840 - 10/05/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mycodood said:
I use 80/20 coir all the time now and I love it.
I use spent grounds that I get from Starbucks.




80 coir / 20 coffee grounds? Anything else you add to your casing mix? For whatever reason, I trust you and am going to replicate your casing for my own.


--------------------
"... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse


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OfflineMycodood
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Re: coir questions [Re: trippindad82]
    #7487976 - 10/05/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes thats the ratio And I use it as my bulk substrate not casing mix.

Here are my results using hydro420's invitro bags.

http://www.shroomtalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9734&hl=


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OfflineDrowse
Rev B.


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 91
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: coir questions [Re: Mycodood]
    #7488167 - 10/05/07 11:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mycodood said:
yes thats the ratio And I use it as my bulk substrate not casing mix.

Here are my results using hydro420's invitro bags.

http://www.shroomtalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9734&hl=




Early Friday morning made me mess it up. I meant substrate. Thanks for the link.

How many bags did you use to get 8oz dry? Also do you have a tek for making your own bags?


--------------------
"... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse


Edited by Drowse (10/05/07 11:56 AM)


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