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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Rose]
#7492482 - 10/06/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
We CAN'T loose this tradition. It is the first non-scientific, Western idea, since Paganism... that wasn't entirely full of shit.
You're forgetting the Beats, Existentialists, Anarchists, Nihilists, Indigenous Sovereigntists, Doukhobors, Diggers, Situationists, and many many more. The hippie movement is just a small part of the tradition of rebelliousness and experimentation that pervades western culture. And most of the hippie subculture got totally co-opted.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
AlteredAgain said: clichés get boring, we like to change.
Yes, and become clean-shaven stock brokers who pay taxes and drive BMWs...
very well, but then they are no longer hippies, are they?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492490 - 10/06/07 07:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippies were the creation of pop culture and never really existed. Those who tried to embody that were responding to an image created by television, pop music, and movies.
*Shmoopy takes off purple Nehru jacket, love beads & sandals, cuts hair, puts away the White Album, tears down The Doors poster and blacklight, puts lava lamp up for sale on E-Bay and flushes herb down toilet*
Um, what were you saying?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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See? That's what I am talking about - a cool name like Zoe7. He took a page from my book on becoming a psychedelic cult leader.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492513 - 10/06/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hippies EXISTED... THEN it became commercial, Hue.
Look at your time-line... Before, "The Mamma's and the Pappa's" went, "California Dreamin'" there WAS hippiedom. In NYC... the East Village, to be precise. And HEY, don't forget Boston/Cambridge!
After the "Mamma's and the Pappa's" moved from THE EAST VILLAGE to MID-CAL... THERE WAS mostly POP-CULTURE HIPPIEDOM... and... by Woodstock... it was almost entirely over. Altamont... HA!
In another context... if you'd discovered the "Hippie life" by the time, "The Gratfeul Dead" were known as, "The Grateful Dead" instead of, "The Warlocks"... you'd probably missed the train.
It didn't happen in California... it happened YEARS earlier, in NYC. BABY!!!
To keep the musical analogy going for a bit too long... FOLK, won the battle of hippiedom... not rock.
Peter Paul and Mary, Robert Zimmerman and that cute/frighteningly hot/60's version of Jewell... kid... Joan Baez... they ALL... BEAT THE BEATLES to the Hippie train!
Judges?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (10/06/07 08:20 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Rose]
#7492539 - 10/06/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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*Shmoopy hums* "Puff the ma-agic dragon, lived by the sea.."
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Did you know the origin of the lyric, "A Land called Honalee"?
It came from Hanalei Bay, Kaua'i, Hawai'i.
Peter Yarrow stayed there for an entire season, in a beach cabin, before writing that horrible, stoner song.
Hanalei bay is a PERFECT tropical bay, surrounded by a mountain... which looks like a sleeping dragon. I stay there for a week, every year. Mushrooms grow in the horse-shit (Pan Cyans). For pot... Just call Little Jackie Paper.
Want pics?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (10/06/07 08:35 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Rose]
#7492601 - 10/06/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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No...it was just fucking program...just another societal program. A social class engineered by society to control those who wish to rebel. The hippy definition was just another form of cultural brainwashing.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492612 - 10/06/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Someone who truly seeks freedom doesn't look for that freedom in cultural based and created conventions.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492630 - 10/06/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: No...it was just fucking program...just another societal program. A social class engineered by society to control those who wish to rebel. The hippy definition was just another form of cultural brainwashing.
Semantically, you are correct about the name, "Hippie" yes. It WAS marketed.
But the idea, is what I am talking about. The actual idea DID exist without corruption... for a little while.
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Someone who truly seeks freedom doesn't look for that freedom in cultural based and created conventions.
Who's talking about freedom? I see your point, though. And, you aren't entirely off the track.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Rose]
#7492716 - 10/06/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I mentioned freedom because this is what the hippy program was seeking to obtain. I myself was strongly influenced by the "hippy" ideal. During my youth this culture was in full force and it was a major influence on my development. It brought me to psychedelic drugs as well. Psychedelic drugs brought me to the realization that all culturally contrived roles are just another aspect of the thing that the hippy generation sought to rebel against. By defining itself it conformed. My ideas about them are not intended to be derogatory, but stripping them of romantic associations is just being realistic. Until recently I classed myself as a "computer nerd" because I worked in network administration and I am good at it. Then it occurred to me that to define myself was merely setting limits on what I could do.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7492739 - 10/06/07 09:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
We CAN'T loose this tradition. It is the first non-scientific, Western idea, since Paganism... that wasn't entirely full of shit.
You're forgetting the Beats, Existentialists, Anarchists, Nihilists, Indigenous Sovereigntists, Doukhobors, Diggers, Situationists, and many many more. The hippie movement is just a small part of the tradition of rebelliousness and experimentation that pervades western culture. And most of the hippie subculture got totally co-opted.
I am so sorry, I totally missed your post until I went back and re-read this thread. You made some great points, however... there is a SPIRITUAL quality within Hippiedom that is lacking from (arguably... easily arguably!) all of your other examples.
My example, PAGANISM, IS a SPIRITUAL philosophy.
I am not talking about hollow, industrial philosophy... hippiedom IS a SPIRITUAL way of life... although yes, hippiedom was influenced by many of your examples... and later, bastardized by pop culture.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492750 - 10/06/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's reasonable to admit that, in the beginning, some of the people who were part of the whole hippie/psychedelic thing in the 60's really were experimenting in a pretty authentic and interesting way. I was reading the autobiography of this guy, Ken Knabb, who was a situationist in the States in the 70's. First he was around the whole San Francisco psychedelic/zen scene and then he got into anarchism and situationism. In the 70's he wrote an awesome, scathing critique of the hippies called 'On the Poverty of Hip Life.' But in his autobiography he expressed how, at least to a certain degree, the time really was pretty liberating and experimental for some and that it was important not to forget that element. It got completely coopted, of course. But for the first wave of people who had to slog through the self reflection and self liberation on thier own and didn't just buy an image, there was something of substance there. There is much to critique, yet much to appreciate.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7492758 - 10/06/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Then it occurred to me that to define myself was merely setting limits on what I could do.
I used to define myself as omnipotent, but even that was w-a-y too limiting.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7492799 - 10/06/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is much to critique, yet much to appreciate.
True. Some aspects of hippiedom had its attractions.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Oh lord.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7492824 - 10/06/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sex, drugs and rock & roll, baby!
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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... and *Folk.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: New / Recent Psychonaut Authors? [Re: Rose]
#7492893 - 10/06/07 10:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lots & lots of folking.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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God, I was born too late! I grew up to Diff'rent Strokes, AIDS, and Michael Jackson... instead of Flower Power, war and, assassinations.
Poor me.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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