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Invisibleafoaf
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There is no science to Islam.
    #7478418 - 10/02/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

http://ptonline.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_60/iss_8/49_1.shtml

Pretty interesting article written by the chair and professor in the department of physics at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Here's a few snippets...

No major invention or discovery has emerged from the Muslim world for well over seven centuries now.
.
.
.
A study by academics at the International Islamic University Malaysia2 showed that OIC countries have 8.5 scientists, engineers, and technicians per 1000 population, compared with a world average of 40.7, and 139.3 for countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. (For more on the OECD, see http://www.oecd.org.) Forty-six Muslim countries contributed 1.17% of the world's science literature, whereas 1.66% came from India alone and 1.48% from Spain. Twenty Arab countries contributed 0.55%, compared with 0.89% by Israel alone. The US NSF records that of the 28 lowest producers of scientific articles in 2003, half belong to the OIC.3

The situation regarding patents is also discouraging: The OIC countries produce negligibly few. According to official statistics, Pakistan has produced only eight patents in the past 43 years.
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.
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On average, the 57 OIC states spend an estimated 0.3% of their gross national product on research and development, which is far below the global average of 2.4%. But the trend toward higher spending is unambiguous. Rulers in the UAE and Qatar are building several new universities with manpower imported from the West for both construction and staffing. In June 2006, Nigeria's president Olusegun Obasanjo announced he will plow $5 billion of oil money into R&D. Iran increased its R&D spending dramatically, from a pittance in 1988 at the end of the Iraq–Iran war, to a current level of 0.4% of its gross domestic product. Saudi Arabia announced that it spent 26% of its development budget on science and education in 2006, and sent 5000 students to US universities on full scholarships. Pakistan set a world record by increasing funding for higher education and science by an immense 800% over the past five years.

But bigger budgets by themselves are not a panacea. The capacity to put those funds to good use is crucial. One determining factor is the number of available scientists, engineers, and technicians. Those numbers are low for OIC countries, averaging around 400–500 per million people, while developed countries typically lie in the range of 3500–5000 per million. Even more important are the quality and level of professionalism, which are less easily quantifiable. But increasing funding without adequately addressing such crucial concerns can lead to a null correlation between scientific funding and performance.
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...it is a myth that women in Muslim countries are largely excluded from higher
education. In fact, the numbers are similar to those in many Western countries: The percentage of women in the university student body is 35% in Egypt, 67% in Kuwait, 27% in Saudi Arabia, and 41% in Pakistan, for just a few examples. In the physical sciences and engineering, the proportion of women enrolled is roughly similar to that in the US. However, restrictions on the freedom of women leave them with far fewer choices, both in their personal lives and for professional advancement after graduation, relative to their male counterparts.
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Some relatively more plausible reasons for the slow scientific development of Muslim countries have been offered...the inadequacy of traditional Islamic languages—Arabic, Persian, Urdu—is an important contributory reason. About 80% of the world's scientific literature appears first in English, and few traditional languages in the developing world have adequately adapted to new linguistic demands. With the exceptions of Iran and Turkey, translation rates are small. According to a 2002 United Nations report written by Arab intellectuals and released in Cairo, Egypt, "The entire Arab world translates about 330 books annually, one-fifth the number that Greece translates." The report adds that in the 1000 years since the reign of the caliph Maa'moun, the Arabs have translated as many books as Spain translates in just one year


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: afoaf]
    #7478461 - 10/02/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree, when it comes to guerrilla tactics and weaponry they are way beyond the curb.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: afoaf]
    #7478567 - 10/02/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This is because they all have their head up their ass praying five times a day. And the rest of the time they're studying the word of their flavor of Flying Spaghetti Monster. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Diploid]
    #7478664 - 10/02/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
This is because they all have their head up their ass praying five times a day. And the rest of the time they're studying the word of their flavor of Flying Spaghetti Monster. :shrug:




Yep.  When you're too busy kissing Allah's ass you don't have time to do constructive stuff.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Diploid]
    #7479137 - 10/02/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I want a prayer rug with a built in micro chip that counts my bows
and triangulates my location and automagically orients me towards
mecca.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: afoaf]
    #7479325 - 10/02/07 11:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Something like that would probably have to be engineered and manufactured in the Great Satan.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: afoaf]
    #7479711 - 10/03/07 04:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The timing is a bit off, but Christianity was not much different back in the days of burning witches... given how Christianity has evolved to accept science (hey, they aren't burning scientists as witches any longer), I can only assume that the Islam will eventually follow the same path.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7479769 - 10/03/07 05:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If we encouraged positive means of interacting with this society, instead of the hostile and confrontational ways we impose our presence, we could be much more effective in allowing them to develop and open up to the whole scene.

For example, I think that, the more China plays the global game, the more freedom and air of openness that its citizens will enjoy. Situations like Burma bring a lot of pressure on China to utilize its influence to ease the oppression of these people, which will only further the cause of the Chinese people.

Similarily, I think that, if we looked for means to interact with Iran in a more beneficial way - trade, economic promotion, etc., we would see far less tension, as we do now. So what if they are seeking nuclear capabilities, if they are interested in weapons, deterence is a key factor to consider here. As far as a resultant terrorist threat, simply focusing on strengthening our own defenses and more effective regulation of our borders would absolve any threat.

I read an interesting op-ed piece by Pat Buchanan, deriding the hysteria over Iran in this country, especially concerning the pressure for him to not place a wreathe on the 9/11 site (:rolleyes:). He cited all kinds of history and clearly stated - look niggas, Iran - is NO threat to us. :nut:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7479833 - 10/03/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> As far as a resultant terrorist threat, simply focusing on strengthening our own defenses and more effective regulation of our borders would absolve any threat.

It doesn't matter how good your security system is, there is a burglar somewhere that can still get past it. Claiming that "effective regulation of our borders would absolve any threat" is naive at best. For example, a concrete wall around the US that stretched to space would not have stopped the Oklahoma City bombing.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7480195 - 10/03/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
The timing is a bit off, but Christianity was not much different back in the days of burning witches... given how Christianity has evolved to accept science (hey, they aren't burning scientists as witches any longer), I can only assume that the Islam will eventually follow the same path.


Why? Islam used to be the greatest source for science in the world (Im sure you know that...). They turned away from science. I dont think there is any reason to assume they will or will not emerge from their dark-age. That is going to depend on them, the west, and the dynamics of the global jihad.

My thoughts is it wont happen any time soon. We still have maybe a hundred years or more of the jihad heating up then cooling down into a reformation (If it ever happens).


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7480534 - 10/03/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
The timing is a bit off, but Christianity was not much different back in the days of burning witches... given how Christianity has evolved to accept science (hey, they aren't burning scientists as witches any longer), I can only assume that the Islam will eventually follow the same path.




On the flip side, Islam did go through an era of amazing scientific output early in its history. I seem to remember they were discovering al-jabra and geometry when Europeans were running around hiding from Vikings and burning witches.

I'm not sure what this means. Maybe Islam as a religion is just at a point in time now where innovation is stifled due to fundamentalism. I'm quite sure if we let Jerry Falwell run things in America most innovation would be stifled as well.

So for the original poster to claim there is no science in Islam as a whole is silly. Maybe there isn't much new coming out of that segment of society NOW, but it certainly was in the past, and hopefully the future.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7480575 - 10/03/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

none of you guys even read the article...much of all this half-assery is
discussed in the article.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7480706 - 10/03/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
hiding from Vikings



To the Vikings!
:chugbeer:
Prost!


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: TheCow]
    #7480813 - 10/03/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This article probably greatly increased the net worth of the author. I mean, his head on a stick is probably worth hundreds or thousands Rupees to a bunch of people circle jerking in a cave somewhere.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7480902 - 10/03/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hey, they aren't burning scientists as witches any longer




"It is not their love for men but the impotence of their love for men which hinders the Christians of today from burning us.”


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7481088 - 10/03/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

suess:


Quote:

The timing is a bit off, but Christianity was not much different back in the days of burning witches... given how Christianity has evolved to accept science (hey, they aren't burning scientists as witches any longer), I can only assume that the Islam will eventually follow the same path.





The fact that they were judging others contrary to Jesus' teaching along with other numerable facts of history and the roman catholic empire shows that it was never Christian to begin with. In any case, Christianity does allow science and investigation very much, it's the word of God that tells us to ".. examine everything ; hold fast to that which is good; (1 thess. 5:21)". Unfortunately, the roman catholic church would not allow people to read the Word of God on their own to see this. In any case, the Spirit of the gospel does not teach the sick frankenstein science and perversion of todays science.

When the printing press came along, and the bible became freed from the clutches of the roman church, it played a key part and coincided with the movement out of the dark ages and into scientific exploration that was part of the renaissance. while I don't agree with many of the concepts behind the reformation (such as physical warfare by Christians, esp. against a ruling government body) it did also did provide some freedom from the roman church also for scientific exploration.


Muslims may change, maybe not. from what I perceive about the muslim world, there is this stigma against so much of the things that the non muslim world has invented. It seems a lot like the situation with the pharisees in Jesus' day, they were constantly creating man made rules and judging things as unholy and non kosher (as compared to not halal
) which had nothing to do with godliness.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7481123 - 10/03/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

there is nothing perverted about a four-assed monkey.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7483761 - 10/04/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
It doesn't matter how good your security system is, there is a burglar somewhere that can still get past it.  Claiming that "effective regulation of our borders would absolve any threat" is naive at best.  For example, a concrete wall around the US that stretched to space would not have stopped the Oklahoma City bombing.




Well, that statement was within the context of nuclear material, and the word "our" was a reference to our global borders. :wink: I realize that there is always the chance that threats could present themselves, although I don't see what disallowing Iran from having nuclear capabilities would change the potential for such a threat, especially if defense received increased funds from the ceasing of exhaustive military conquests. Prevention of terrorism does not mean tracking down and killing terrorists. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7483773 - 10/04/07 05:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The problem is that it is getting very easy to kill large numbers of people with very little. Although impossible, assume that we make our borders so secure that no nuclear material can get through, that still doesn't stop somebody from bring a biological weapon through. Infect a person with a nasty "bug" and send them from airport to airport across the country. (Some of the nasty biological weapons that I know of are truly horrid... and are not that hard to get a hold of... difficult part is not killing yourself as well, but if you don't care about that...)

As technology progresses, the world gets smaller and borders become irrelevant. If different cultures cannot learn to coexist, then extinction will follow.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7483782 - 10/04/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
As technology progresses, the world gets smaller and borders become irrelevant.  If different cultures cannot learn to coexist, then extinction will follow.




Exactly, which is why looking for ways to encourage economic growth and bringing countries to be more involved with global affairs, trade and whatnot, is far more effective than becoming hysteric and looking to exercise military options. Once the borders become irrelevant by encouraging symbiotic relationships amongst nations, what hurts one, hurts us all, and we will inevitably start to look towards working together and providing for a better existance to everyone. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7483846 - 10/04/07 06:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> what hurts one, hurts us all,

Unfortunately, there are a lot of "moonbats" out there that don't care if they get hurt as God/Allah/FSM will protect them and honor them with as many meatballs as they can eat once they reach noodlevana. I don't know what the solution is, but I agree, the present strategy isn't it.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: Seuss]
    #7483921 - 10/04/07 07:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Best just to encourage positive development and contain the individuals not capable of interacting with reality in an effective manner to ensure the least harm to everyone else, I guess, and as time passes, less and less moonbats will there be. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: There is no science to Islam. [Re: afoaf]
    #7486024 - 10/04/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

From the article you posted:


At Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, where I teach, the constraints are similar to those existing in most other Pakistani public-sector institutions. This university serves the typical middle-class Pakistani student and, according to the survey referred to earlier,5 ranks number two among OIC universities. Here, as in other Pakistani public universities, films, drama, and music are frowned on, and sometimes even physical attacks by student vigilantes who believe that such pursuits violate Islamic norms take place. The campus has three mosques with a fourth one planned, but no bookstore. No Pakistani university, including QAU, allowed Abdus Salam to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in 1979 for his role in formulating the standard model of particle physics



Until there are some civil liberties for the populace, I believe they will still consider beating women with sticks is on the cutting edge of the power curve. No bookstore, my god..........


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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