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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Evil created god and good
    #7477583 - 10/02/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what if theres only evil and good was created by it so it has a toy and introduced god to have those people run around in idiocy,


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7477589 - 10/02/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What if I really couldn't come up with a good topic for debate?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: Icelander]
    #7477675 - 10/02/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What if I really couldn't come up with a good topic for debate?




Then I would say you need a better drug connection.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7477716 - 10/02/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Evil cannot create good because then evil would have good in it and it would not be evil. It's like saying what if there is light in darkness. They are mutually exclusive.


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Offlinemikebart101
Bromden
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Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
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Re: Evil created god and good [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7477800 - 10/02/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Evil cannot create good because then evil would have good in it and it would not be evil. It's like saying what if there is light in darkness. They are mutually exclusive.




What if there is no good. Have you ever encountered pure goodness?

I've had moments where I believed that all this was an illusion put on by the Devil; a giant test if you will, and he's betting on me to fail and be good. I hear it all the time, "We are Gods" (In the greatest spiritual sense), but what if we are Devils instead? A little yang for the yin.


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: mikebart101]
    #7477814 - 10/02/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever encountered pure goodness?


Frozen bananas dipped in dark chocolate and almonds.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: Icelander]
    #7477833 - 10/02/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the sadistic holistic...

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/7_relate.htm

a scary idea, rather not entertain it


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7477926 - 10/02/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Gee, what fun. But what do you know (really) about the number 53? Nothing happens outside this number. The rest are dream symbols and fragments of lost memories from countless centuries of random acts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: Icelander]
    #7478708 - 10/02/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

... i thought a bunch of asain people said theres light in dark and dark in light. can you really say pure darkness has no good in it?
and as someone said maybe evil just had a bit of good in it all along or maybe thats really not good and tis but an illusion to justify your evil deeds. some murders dont cosider their murders to have been evil or the slightest bit wrong.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Edited by thedudenj (10/02/07 08:45 PM)


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7479366 - 10/02/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What meaning does 'evil' have but a corruption of that which is good, original, meaningful?


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7479433 - 10/03/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

that is what evil means, stellar renegade


--------------------


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7479471 - 10/03/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Exactly. But my question is, if it is defined in such a way (and I was waiting to see if anyone had any other definition) then how could it be the ultimate and transcendent reality? The very definition of 'corruption' implies being lesser, more broken-down. How can something that is broken-down be greater than that which is whole? It seems to go against the very definition of the thing.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7479800 - 10/03/07 05:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if your gona use that why cant good be the collaspe of evil or degrading of it. or that good is actually really just evil and a justification for it by trying to be flashly. like its ok that i put a drain on this planet and eat animals which are killed but i plant trees and i dont steal so it makes me good, where some one that kills people and eats them is bad and evil.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
Male

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 days
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7479864 - 10/03/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That is a good definition of evil. But would the destruction and degredation of evil creatures by other evil creatures, also be counted as evil? Maybe thats what they used to do, just destroy each other, then one of them thought, "you know what would be even funnier?" and they created the ultimate easy target for evil....good.  :fork:


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Offlinegluke bastid
Stinky Bum
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
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Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7480080 - 10/03/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
if your gona use that why cant good be the collaspe of evil or degrading of it. or that good is actually really just evil and a justification for it by trying to be flashly. like its ok that i put a drain on this planet and eat animals which are killed but i plant trees and i dont steal so it makes me good, where some one that kills people and eats them is bad and evil.




No no, you're not getting it. He defined evil as "what came after." Good is simply what was first, and then evil was what came into the good. Evil is a corruption of good. By his definition evil couldn't possibly come first.

Think of it as an apple (good) and poop (evil). Poop couldn't come first. You have to have the apple first, then it becomes poop. Poop can't be turned into an apple, but an apple can be turned into poop.
Poop has traces of apple in it, but an apple doesn't have traces of poop in it.

That's the best analogy I could come up with.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7480093 - 10/03/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah what im saying is that evil existed first tho


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7480102 - 10/03/07 08:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What do you really understand by evil?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7480124 - 10/03/07 08:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stellar renegade said:
What meaning does 'evil' have but a corruption of that which is good, original, meaningful?




apoptosis


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7480277 - 10/03/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
yeah what im saying is that evil existed first tho




You're not listening.

All you are doing is swapping the word evil for the word good, you are not addressing what they mean. You're argument is getting lost in language. You can call a garden hose a "lawnmower" and vice versa, but that doesn't mean that the garden hose takes on the nature of a lawn mower and a lawn mower takes on the nature of a garden hose. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet."

Same with good and evil. If the nature of good is the nature of the entire universe when it was created, and evil is the complication, corruption, or division of that good, than there is no way evil COULD come first. Swapping the words doesn't change the nature of the ideas. Evil depends on good to exist, but good doesn't depend on evil to exist.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7480576 - 10/03/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

gluke bastid has what I was trying to say.

Now, the question becomes: is saving trees and making peace with others a corruption of demolishing nature and eating people?  That depends.  Is demolishing nature and eating people beneficial to us?

The very reason these things are considered evil, methinks, is that they are not beneficial.  People may disagree about the origin of evil and how to deal with it, but just about everyone's in agreement that those types of things are the corruption of what was originally good.

It's like saying an apple comes from poop.  The seed of an apple planted in the ground becomes an apple tree, but the seeds in poop are just wasted (unless they're planted in the ground, I guess :rolleyes: - good fertilizer)


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7481429 - 10/03/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

thedudenj said:
yeah what im saying is that evil existed first tho




You're not listening.

All you are doing is swapping the word evil for the word good, you are not addressing what they mean. You're argument is getting lost in language. You can call a garden hose a "lawnmower" and vice versa, but that doesn't mean that the garden hose takes on the nature of a lawn mower and a lawn mower takes on the nature of a garden hose. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet."

Same with good and evil. If the nature of good is the nature of the entire universe when it was created, and evil is the complication, corruption, or division of that good, than there is no way evil COULD come first. Swapping the words doesn't change the nature of the ideas. Evil depends on good to exist, but good doesn't depend on evil to exist.



iike what stellar renegade said, but
how can you say good can be independant of evil and cant evil be independant for good?


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7481515 - 10/03/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Because, it seems, you are coming from the preconception that good and evil are on equal terms (since they are opposites). But the very definition of good and evil by very basic terms implies that they are not equal. Or otherwise we would not be speaking of the concepts at all.

Now, if you are referring to morality as society defines it, you may have something to begin to discuss. For the most part I think society has the obviously right idea about these things (such as senseless murder being bad, etc) but there are other issues where corruption is not such an obvious issue.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7481548 - 10/03/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well think this really begs then for what the deffintion that were all agreeing on before we start appling it society. Evil 2/3 Good 1/3 by weight


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7481556 - 10/03/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
well think this really begs then for what the deffintion that were all agreeing on before we start appling it society.



Yeah.

Quote:

Evil 2/3 Good 1/3 by weight



huh? Are you saying that there's more evil than good in the world? I would say the percentages are reversed.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7481591 - 10/03/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well i say theres alot of good thats truely evil and just mispercieved and twisted. it should be noted that thers alot of darkness thats Good and things that appear good but arnt. Mother Kali is a good example of darkness


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Edited by thedudenj (10/03/07 04:44 PM)


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OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
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Registered: 09/26/07
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Re: Evil created god and good [Re: thedudenj]
    #7481959 - 10/03/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Evil seems to effect people more. It only takes a little bit of evil to ruin it for everyone, and this world has alot of it.


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Evil created god and good [Re: DimensionX]
    #7487024 - 10/05/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah but seriously people have a gross misperception of what good and what is evil whats holy and whats unholy


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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