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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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my plan for revolution. pt 1.
#7476826 - 10/02/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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since there have been a couple of threads about revolution here lately i thought i'd share my plan. this plan is built for realism and i think it has a fairly good chance of working, its just a long term plan that requires a couple generations before it comes into full effect (and by then we'll all be cyborg hive mind people so i guess its a pointless plan).
the crux of my plan is i believe that we could advance faster if (or if you look at it the other way; that the ills of society could be solved by:) the education system was changed.
childhood is when you do almost all of your core learning, rarely do people make it out of the gravity well of their upbringing. if things are not going well presently, for instance if people do crime, don't care about politics or blindly accept the lies politicians feed them, it is my belief that in large part we can blame the people who raised them. kids are raised stupid. Its kind of funny, my grandma and my mother, who are both square, conservative democrat normal people, both believe the government is actually trying to keep the population dumb by way of the public school system. i don't think there is an actual conspiracy to not teach kids the things they need to know, i think its just that we're still waiting for the next big advance in education... i think as a science the proper methods for educating people has been neglected.
take note: many of the things i mention here are slowly being realized and implemented in half-assed fashion, i do not believe its being done fast enough. most of this stuff is common sense.
okay so what do i want to change here...
HEALTH:
health: we're not living up to our potential health wise. many people suffer from the effects of poor diet, not enough sleep, not enough exercise, not enough flexibility, too much of the wrong KIND of exercise (for instance football is good exercise, but i lifetime of football will fuck your body up hardcore (although i'm not saying people should stop playing football)) people still get addicted to cigarettes, abuse alcohol, abuse drugs, ect.
the most blatantly wrong thing about our education system i think is that we don't teach kids how to be healthy. health class is like once a month movie time (or once a year in many of the schools i went to). gym is kind of pointless joke, with no understanding of the importance of it or expression of the subtle details of physical fitness. school lunches were crap. we force young children to sit still and do busy work 6 hours a day, this is complete insanity. do you ever watch kids and see how much energy they have? i find it hard to pay attention to boring crap and i have maybe a third the energy i did when i was little. i believe that not having kids actively using their bodies while at school warps their psyche, and leads to reduced energy and motivation as an adult (basically if you're told to sit quietly and do what people tell you while you're young for that long of course you're either going to rebel or become a drone) so in this first section we need to a) feed kids healthy food, and teach them how to eat healthy b) teach them how to use their bodies and teach them the importance of keeping it in good working order
seems simple enough, and this should be the first priority of school. not math, science, or even reading. i think the world would be a better place if it was full have healthy manual laborers who can't read than full of unhealthy mildly educated people.
i realize that people have the right to different lifestyle choices but a persons health has a huge effect on this next section (negative effects things negatively, positive effects things positively)
EMOTIONS:
in the schools i went to emotional education was limited to weary commands and platitudes: "don't fight", "you have to share", "play nice", "be a good boy" and that sort of thing. this is fucking ridiculous. yelling at kids when they act out is not teaching them how to find an emotionally balanced happiness. kids need to be taught how to recognize what they're feeling, why they're feeling it, and how to adjust their feelings so they can come into harmony with the world around them. i'm imaging a world in which most people are friendly even with strangers, random fights and aggressive behavior is reduced to almost zero (alpha males will find other, more productive, battlegrounds to assert their dominance on), everybody is chill. there is no reason why this couldn't happen. (note: i'm not saying we're going brainwash kids into being passive, in fact i think people are TOO passive and i'm hoping that there will actually be MORE competition because very passionate people will be less likely to get out of control (more likely to channel their feelings into something productive, MMA instead of just random street fighting for example) and people who are passive now out of fear or emotional sensitivity will be given the skills to express themselves) children need to know that their feelings ARE important, because feelings either covertly or overtly drive ALL behavior, and even more importantly they need to know that other people's feelings are also important, and be given the skills to get along with anyone they meet. and lastly you think better, learn better and work better when you're calm and centered.
MIND:
i think there also needs to be some change in what ideas we teach kids at what time. i think that except for reading, writing and basic math, much of the current curriculum can be de-emphasized and put off till much later in person's education. up until middle school at least the emphasis should be put on abstract concepts, and not the useless facts (which the kids aren't even capable of getting meaning out of because they've never been taught how to critically process information). this is the area i'm most fuzzy on, and the only thing i'm sure of is whats lacking currently, not so much what needs to be taught. i'm sure that kids are not taught to see trends in information, to learn how to judge the reliability of a source of information, how to think logically, ect ect ect.
the only thing i'm sure needs to be taught as far is concepts goes, it people need to be made to understand while they're young that working WITH other people in a pro-active way makes life better for THEM. i forget the term for this, i think its enlightened self interest. if are nice to the kid with the toy, he'll let you play with it, if you're nice to the kid with no toys maybe he'll invite you to go swimming with him or show you were the cool beetles are at or something. its always in your best interest to get along with people and help them when possible, because other people can be vital in helping you get things you want or bettering your life in ways you never imagined. facts and techniques for doing things seem to be pretty reasonably easy to learn while you're older, i don't think they should be pointlessly thrust at people so young. i think middle school is about when they should start teaching some basics, then high school is where you should start teachings kids specifics. middle school should have more classes like advanced cooking, repairing things, building electronics, making things, ect. middle school should have much more emphasis on doing real life things. high school is when people should start learning facts and theories behind the things they've learned they're interested in middle school. and although there should still be general education stuff (math, history, ect) during high school each kid should be able to choose an area of focus that lets say makes up half their day. by the time kids get to college they should have the equivalent of a couple years of college in whatever field they're interested in by the current system.
okay, so basically i think this holistic education will make people happier and smarter. less likely to do or put up with stupid bullshit, and more likely to have the ideas and the energy to fix stupid bullshit. TA DA, it only took 40-80 years but the revolution is complete, a society full of healthy, clear thinking people is going to make very different decisions (and elect very different officials!!!) than our current one.
the only way we're going to learn what type of schooling produces the above finished project is by starting to experiment with different programs and methods, and then analyzing the data.
so how do we get people to buy into this idea? and how do we get the government to give it the O.K. and the funding? that will be covered in pt2.
(i'm pretty tired as you might be able to tell. if something is not clear feel free to ask questions and i'll have more coherent answers at another time).
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: truekimbo2]
#7476850 - 10/02/07 10:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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all of my idea's are based on:
http://www.timecube.com/
Cubeless education - is a deadly evil. Cubeless educators are evil bastards. Humans are dumb, educated stupid, and evil. They don't want to know Nature's Cubic Order of Creation.
(just kidding, but i think guy sees what i mean somewhat)
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
Edited by truekimbo2 (10/02/07 10:12 AM)
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: truekimbo2]
#7476859 - 10/02/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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childhood is when you do almost all of your core learning, rarely do people make it out of the gravity well of their upbringing.
That really is key, and I don't think enough people get it. Just look at the many cases of feral children to see how vital our early life is. The first five years of life are the most important, with each year decreasing in importance after.
Now that you know, the revolution depends on you and what you do. Take this information and make a change in your life. Raise you children, should you have any, the right way - to be critical thinkers. Home school them, if needed (I plan on it).
Lead by example, it's the best method for change in a bovine society
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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herfenara
cross dressinghobo junkie


Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 122
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: trendal]
#7476913 - 10/02/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i don't think there is an actual conspiracy to not teach kids the things they need to know, i think its just that we're still waiting for the next big advance in education... i think as a science the proper methods for educating people has been neglected.
have you heard of project renaissance? theyre the main ppl developing the science of learning. for 30 years theyve been trying to get their methods into schools and gotten nowhere. whenever it looks like theyve got a shot, its all mysteriously rejected at the last minute by some unknown ppl higher up the chain.. everyone grab their tinfoil
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: trendal]
#7476916 - 10/02/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most of your "revolution" will occur at home, and via the family. Arguably, what people learn outside of school affects them more than what goes on in the classroom.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: badchad]
#7476937 - 10/02/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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true, my idea is closer to systematized mandatory good parenting than education though if you want to look at it like that.
i'm relying on the hope that if we have a good school system, shitty parents won't be able to fuck it up.
i think that biological parents have been given long enough to raise a generation of utopian people.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: badchad]
#7476989 - 10/02/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Arguably, what people learn outside of school affects them more than what goes on in the classroom.
That may be true of the current school system, but it does not have to be true of every school system.
The current system sucks, plain and simple. I would not know a percent of what I know today if I had not learned very early how to learn on my own. Learned how to understand things. Schools don't teach that, they teach rote-memorization. I can say that what I learned in school pales in comparison to what I learned on my own.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: truekimbo2]
#7477022 - 10/02/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: the most blatantly wrong thing about our education system i think is that we don't teach kids how to be healthy. health class is like once a month movie time (or once a year in many of the schools i went to). gym is kind of pointless joke, with no understanding of the importance of it or expression of the subtle details of physical fitness.
At my public high school we had a health class for half the week and a gym class for the other half. We were constantly doing shit related to physical health.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: school lunches were crap.
I can agree with you there. The food was disgusting and of low-quality.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i believe that not having kids actively using their bodies while at school warps their psyche, and leads to reduced energy and motivation as an adult (basically if you're told to sit quietly and do what people tell you while you're young for that long of course you're either going to rebel or become a drone)
We had a badass recess everyday at my elementary school.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: seems simple enough, and this should be the first priority of school. not math, science, or even reading.
While health is an important aspect of life and many schools do touch on it (as mine did) I do believe that the schools should focus on math, science, and reading. And it's not a school's place to tell parents what to put in their kids bodies and how to exercise. If a parent buys their kid garbage food and doesn't make them move...then that's the parent's fault.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: yelling at kids when they act out is not teaching them how to find an emotionally balanced happiness. kids need to be taught how to recognize what they're feeling, why they're feeling it, and how to adjust their feelings so they can come into harmony with the world around them.
Leave emotions to the individual. School has no place trying to delve into such matters.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i'm imaging a world in which most people are friendly even with strangers, random fights and aggressive behavior is reduced to almost zero (alpha males will find other, more productive, battlegrounds to assert their dominance on), everybody is chill.
Ain't gonna happen. Our species is inherently aggressive, selfish, and violent at times. That isn't going to change no matter how many feel-good ideas or policies are implemented.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: (more likely to channel their feelings into something productive, MMA instead of just random street fighting for example) and people who are passive now out of fear or emotional sensitivity will be given the skills to express themselves)
Random street fighting is rare. People usually engage in violence because of anger (someone pissed them off) or greed (they want to take someone's shit).
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: the only thing i'm sure needs to be taught as far is concepts goes, it people need to be made to understand while they're young that working WITH other people in a pro-active way makes life better for THEM.
Oh man..I'd love to see you try to teach a class of seven year olds. Kids AREN'T enlightened and they oftentimes can't see reason. They are little balls of ID running around. All of this feel-good shit won't make a difference to kids. Only punishment and reward seems to work with kids.
I think the problem with the public educational system is the greedy teachers and administrators who keep wanting more money, the large amount of students who don't give a fuck, and the parents who are too damn busy to raise their kids.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: trendal]
#7477033 - 10/02/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: The current system sucks, plain and simple. I would not know a percent of what I know today if I had not learned very early how to learn on my own. Learned how to understand things. Schools don't teach that, they teach rote-memorization. I can say that what I learned in school pales in comparison to what I learned on my own.
In America, public education is not as bad as people say it is in my opinion. There are opportunities and you can learn if you take advantage of it. But, of course things aren't perfect. If I ever reproduce (God forbid!) I'm sending my kid to a private school.
The reason that I didn't learn much in school was because I didn't give a shit. I was too busy raising hell, mouthing off, and smoking pot. That wasn't my school's fault...it was my fault.
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7477050 - 10/02/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was a combination of family, school, and the area in which you grew up "at fault" (if there is any) here 
With the proper education and upbringing for an early age, you would not have been too busy raising hell, mouthing off, and smoking pot.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: trendal]
#7477058 - 10/02/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: With the proper education and upbringing for an early age, you would not have been too busy raising hell, mouthing off, and smoking pot.
I dunno man. I grew up in a stable rural area where there was no crime. I had loving parents who made sure I was taken care of. I got straight A's all through elementary school and was the best student in the class. yadda yadda yadda. Then I just stopped giving a fuck and I decided that I would rather smoke weed and look at girls.
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7477076 - 10/02/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So you got straight A's in a school system that only a few posts ago I said sucked. That's supposed to impress me how...? 
It does show me that you managed to develop those skills of self-learning that I hold in such high regard (as did a sizable portion of shroomerites). I would hazard a guess that your loss of interest in school fell along side your realization, even if only subconscious, that it (school) was all a sham.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7477077 - 10/02/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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randal: so would you say that as a result of your health and gym classes, most of the kids in your school graduated healthy?
i can see how opinion-wise we could differ on whether or not its the school's place to teach emotions or enforce a healthy lifestyle. i would say if you want to make the world a better place with happier individuals this would be a way to do it.
as for 7 year olds (or younger, or older) not understanding reason and not responding to things other than reward or punishment, i believe you are wrong.
i've explained many advanced concepts on interpersonal relationships to kids, and although they obviously don't understand it or immediately act on it, the gears were turning, and they didn't just look at me glazed over expressions or endless repeating of "why". also, i know personally know of two families that as policy try and treat their kids as if they were very intelligent, and according to them the kids can learn and act on adult concepts at a young age as long as its consistent. (i don't know the kids that well).
i didn't include it in OP, but i meant to include a line about: if you treat kids as though they were dumb and don't challenge them, of course they're going to remain dumb. yeah they're not going to pick up on things instantly, but would you rather it takes kids 5 years while they're young, or their whole life up until their twenties or even thirties (or later) to learn the subtleties of the philosophical meaning behind their actions.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: trendal]
#7477089 - 10/02/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: So you got straight A's in a school system that only a few posts ago I said sucked. That's supposed to impress me how...? 
Well, I got straight A's when I was a little kid. When I hit my teenage years my grades went downhill.
Quote:
trendal said: I would hazard a guess that your loss of interest in school fell along side your realization, even if only subconscious, that it (school) was all a sham.
I think it all comes down to me being lazy and distracted. There were tons of classes and teachers that I could have taken advantage of to learn all kinds of things. I just didn't. I was too busy thinking about the girl with the nice boobs sitting in front of me and how I couldn't wait to get home and rip out my bong and watch TV.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: truekimbo2]
#7477112 - 10/02/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: randal: so would you say that as a result of your health and gym classes, most of the kids in your school graduated healthy?
We had a few fatties here and there but most of the students were skinny and healthy.
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i can see how opinion-wise we could differ on whether or not its the school's place to teach emotions or enforce a healthy lifestyle. i would say if you want to make the world a better place with happier individuals this would be a way to do it.
Sounds like some unrealistic new age bullshit to me. 
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i've explained many advanced concepts on interpersonal relationships to kids, and although they obviously don't understand it or immediately act on it, the gears were turning
You know what kept me in line? Knowing that my dad would beat my ass if I did something wrong. Hence, I stopped doing wrong stuff or I got better at hiding it. 
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: yeah they're not going to pick up on things instantly, but would you rather it takes kids 5 years while they're young, or their whole life up until their twenties or even thirties (or later) to learn the subtleties of the philosophical meaning behind their actions.
I say let people find their own way in the world when it comes to philosophical or emotional stuff. These are profound and intimately personal choices that are best left to individuals.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7477132 - 10/02/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:[/b}
I think it all comes down to me being lazy and distracted. There were tons of classes and teachers that I could have taken advantage of to learn all kinds of things. I just didn't.
And this is the crux of the problem, in my opinion. Few kids WANT to go to school. Neither did I when i was a kid. However, my parents always instilled in me the notion that education was very important. When I look back, it's what motivated me to do well in school.
Even with its shortcomings, opportunities abound in the current system, they just need to be taken advantage of.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: badchad]
#7477151 - 10/02/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: And this is the crux of the problem, in my opinion. Few kids WANT to go to school. Neither did I when i was a kid.
Yep, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at the teachers, how many state of the art things you have at your local public high school, or what newfangled educational philosophy that you try to enforce. If the kids don't want to learn then they won't learn.
If you were to stick me back in high school I'd still do the same shit (except smoke weed because I quit years ago). I'd sleep, goof off, and try to fuck girls.
They should invite me back to speak at a pep rally or something!
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: badchad]
#7477173 - 10/02/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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But, with all of this being said, I do think that public education could use some tweaking. It would be nice if there were more hands-on and real world kind of stuff. Sitting at a desk and learning about sentence structure all day is damn boring.
Public education needs to get sexier.
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7477211 - 10/02/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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no, the crux of the problem is our school system could be better. if people don't want to go to school, they still have to because its the law.
wait wait wait randal so lets back up a minute.
do you agree with me that if there are social problems today, we can in part blame the upbringing of the generation that was most instrumental in creating the society we have today? that unbringing is k3y (because most people don't transcend their past)?
and if you do agree with that, would you also agree that we can't force parents to instill good principles in children?
all i'm saying is we need to experiment. your main counterpoints seem to be a) its not our place to enforce "morality" b) outside of enforcing morality our school system works fine now.
to point A: if we can't make parents teach kids to be good people and make smart decisions, and if the present is in large part dependant on the upbringing of the past... then of course things are going to go slow. i personally don't see anything wrong in attempting to accelerating it. if it doesn't work it won't be at a heavy cost and it won't make things worse.
to point b: i believe you are scientifically wrong, for those who do want to be there and do want to learn, there are better teaching methods. i should add that i don't have data to support this but i'd be willing to wager that such data exsists.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: my plan for revolution. pt 1. [Re: truekimbo2]
#7477255 - 10/02/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: if it doesn't work it won't be at a heavy cost and it won't make things worse.
Since when did forcing a subjective set of beliefs about what is "right" and "wrong" not cause problems or make things worse?
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