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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: Icelander]
    #7479265 - 10/02/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's not that I don't like these things it's that I know they are subjective and so only apply to my personal desire and belief and that doesn't make them true. I know there's nothing I can do about how I'm built as a human.



I'm going to try to take this slow and make this simple this time for the sake of proper discussion. What do you think makes a thing 'true'?


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


Edited by stellar renegade (10/02/07 11:36 PM)


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7479648 - 10/03/07 03:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It's true that ultimately our understanding comes down to a matter of heart. But I find that when it comes to this, it is where I find the most
ultimate truth of all.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: druglord]
    #7482727 - 10/03/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7482737 - 10/03/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stellar renegade said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
It's not that I don't like these things it's that I know they are subjective and so only apply to my personal desire and belief and that doesn't make them true. I know there's nothing I can do about how I'm built as a human.



I'm going to try to take this slow and make this simple this time for the sake of proper discussion. What do you think makes a thing 'true'?




I don't know what ultimate truth is so I don't know. I only know what my subjective guess is based on my own investigation would be. But there would be no way to know if it was true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: Icelander]
    #7483609 - 10/04/07 02:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Okay. I want to narrow down on that last statement:

But there would be no way to know if it was true.

Again, what do you mean by this? How would it be true or not? Do you simply mean that you are uncertain about your judgments, or that you're measuring them against a certain objective standard? Even if you're uncertain there's an indication that you're measuring your speculations against something.

Hm. I think you may have misunderstood my question in the first place. When I asked, what makes a thing true? I wasn't asking which worldview validates your thought process, but what kind of dynamic you measure your thoughts against. There's internal justification, empirical verification, societal standards, etc. I'm just trying to figure out what kind of dynamic you think makes a thing 'true' or not so I can possibly discuss the topic further with you.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Creating meaning and order. [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7484462 - 10/04/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stellar renegade said:
Okay. I want to narrow down on that last statement:

But there would be no way to know if it was true.

Again, what do you mean by this? How would it be true or not? Do you simply mean that you are uncertain about your judgments, or that you're measuring them against a certain objective standard? Even if you're uncertain there's an indication that you're measuring your speculations against something.

Hm. I think you may have misunderstood my question in the first place. When I asked, what makes a thing true? I wasn't asking which worldview validates your thought process, but what kind of dynamic you measure your thoughts against. There's internal justification, empirical verification, societal standards, etc. I'm just trying to figure out what kind of dynamic you think makes a thing 'true' or not so I can possibly discuss the topic further with you.




I wonder how many times I will have to repeat this before someone hears? My brain is finite, the Universe looks to be infinite. There is no possible way I can definitively know truth. So all my truth is subjective and therefore suspect. I use the same criteria that all other humans use to determine subjective truth. I am just not under the illusion that that is any kind of final truth or even correct at all. This only makes sense to me rationally.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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