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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7487902 - 10/05/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You're making so many assumptions (like that belief in God takes an irrational leap of faith) or that my philosophy has no logical basis, that it's not worth discussing this further with you. :shake:

Also, you read Dawkins?  puhhh-leeeease, girl! :rolleyes: That sure explains a lot. :smirk:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7487997 - 10/05/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You're making so many assumptions (like that belief in God takes an irrational leap of faith) or that my philosophy has no logical basis, that it's not worth discussing this further with you. :shake:




Where am I making assumptions?
Please show me exactly where and refute them. Otherwise I'll think that you just don't know what to answer so you're playing a cheap game.
Sell your drama somewhere else. :smirk:

Quote:

Also, you read Dawkins? puhhh-leeeease, girl! :rolleyes: That sure explains a lot. :smirk:




This is a lame form of excusing your own inability to have a debate or to reason. Please save your personal remarks for yourself. :thumbdown:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488031 - 10/05/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I asked you if you thought I was trying to avoid it.

Yes.

Prove it!

I cannot prove it but there is strong evidence for it from all of human history and a pre historic fossil record etc. There is no evidence that life was never the way it is. Life is a struggle for survival, first and foremost.


If there is the capacity for something greater, then that greater must (at least possibly) exist. It's simple philosophy.


We sure do go over this again and again.  It's the (at least possibly) part that I have always referred to. If it could possibly be true then it could also be possibly be false. When one claims to know ultimate truth about a Creator and it's motives then one ignores the fact that they don't really know for sure. 

Fully programmed by what, pray tell?

Is there nothing that is horrible? Where does the word come from, then? Where does the thought and feeling come from? And where are we to place the emotion if there is nothing to apply it to? Can you regard both love and equality for those of the Jewish race and their senseless extermination and herding into concentration camps in the same light? Wouldn't one seem to be horrible and the other not? To see them both the same way would seem to be more or less total disconnectedness.

Light and dark are not equal. The one is greater than the other. Light invades darkness and makes a mockery of it. One day it could invade all of the darkness. There is both substance and emptiness. The one is an aspect of energy and matter, and the other does not truly exist. Darkness is not a part of nature. The word darkness is a placeholder like the number zero is. It represents a state of being which has the potential for completion but is not yet what it could be.

To say that light and darkness are equally balanced is foolish nonsense. Even science should have taught you better.


We are all programmed by our life experiences.

I never said there is nothing horrible. :monkeydance: I just don't go along with your statement that life is horrible. I see both love and hate.

The rest of this I just don't know how to respond to as it doesn't make much sense to me. I can only get the feeling that you misunderstand much of my posts. I never said light and dark were balanced. I will say that light and dark as metaphors do create a balance IMO. If your looking for perfect balance you can't find it in nature. It's constant motion but I could make a non-sensible statement also about how much actual darkness I perceive and then go on to build my belief system around it. ("what the thinker thinks, the prover proves) But that's all it would be, my beliefs.

'Back off'? Do you feel intimidated or something?

No, I didn't mean back off from me. I meant that if you cannot provide proofs for your claim of direct knowledge that God exists then back off of that claim and instead state correctly that you believe that God exists but do not have shareable evidence of that existence.

The difference between believing in the existence of a tree and believing in the existence of an all-encompassing, transcendental, metaphysical being is that one only requires casual observance and the other requires rigorous mental and emotional exercise to perceive every aspect of. The kind of god you could believe in otherwise, I'm not even interested in.

I have taken years of searching in the ways you mention. Most likely many more years of it than you and very rigorous at times in my life. My discoveries from this rigorous mental and emotional exercise is to conclude the absence of a God possessing human emotional attributes. I have come to be more Taoist in my thinking. I remain open to any possibility but make my best guess as to truth like everyone else whether they admit that or not.

Why would someone state the possibility of being wrong about what they are certain of? If we're sitting on either side of a table with an apple between us, and I ask you to please admit the possibility that this apple does not exist, why would you feel the need to do so?

We need to be open minded for real debate to take place as is intended in this forum. True believers only preach and that does not belong here is S&P. Mysticism forum would be the place. IMO anyone who cannot admit that they might be wrong are just acting self-important and ignorant. Of course anyone could be wrong about anything. Finite minds remember? We can't get all the info unless of course God is really made in our image.

If we're sitting on either side of a table with an apple between us, and I ask you to please admit the possibility that this apple does not exist, why would you feel the need to do so?

For the simple and honest reason that there is a slight chance that there really isn't an apple there. In my dreams I see apples and believe in them and even eat them. Yet I awaken hungry.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7488039 - 10/05/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How am I supposed to refute statements that have no given rationale for them? I say something about God and you say something about the Easter bunny, as if there's a correlation somehow. You say that my philosophy is a leap of faith, that believing in God is immature and a personal preference. These are blanket statements without any kind of backing to them, which are exactly the kind of statements that Richard Dawkins makes.

What motivation do I have for talking with you if all you do is make statements without explaining them? I've made arguments for my own case, and I'm not going to keep debating with people who continue to disregard them. It's just a pointless waste of time.

I actually thought these boards might prove interesting. I guess not.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488078 - 10/05/07 11:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The only arguments which can be made for a person's existence are philosophical ones. If you observed my friend's body and said that you didn't think they existed, then the problem would seem to be that you didn't believe in their identity as a person. The problem would then be philosophical. If you look at the natural world and say that God doesn't exist, then the problem would seem to be that you don't believe in God's identity as a person. The natural world is the embodiment of the Supreme Being I'm speaking of. So, the problem is philosophical in nature.





This analogy doesn't work.  The equivalent of what you are saying would be if I looked at your friend, touched your friend, smelled your friend, tasted your friend (:naughty:) and heard your friend, acknowledged his existence, and THEN you claimed that his existence was proof that the Easter Bunny exists.  This IS a leap of faith, it IS illogical, and it does not constitute proof. :confused:

The natural world provides evidence of its' own existence, and claiming that it is evidence of a higher power is an expression of your opinion, not of fact.


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: Icelander]
    #7488095 - 10/05/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes.



Okay, now you can tell me why.

Quote:

Icelander said:
We sure do go over this again and again.  It's the (at least possibly) part that I have always referred to. If it could possibly be true then it could also be possibly be false. When one claims to know ultimate truth about a Creator and it's motives then one ignores the fact that they don't really know for sure.



The possibility of something greater is what I was referring to all along.  If there's room for it then it could someday be.

Are you so sure we can't be sure?  How do you know for sure?

Quote:

Icelander said:
I never said there is nothing horrible. :monkeydance: I just don't go along with your statement that life is horrible. I see both love and hate.



Where, pray tell, did I imply that life is horrible?

Why would the concepts of light and dark make good metaphors if the physical phenomena they are based on does not make a good analogy?

Quote:

Icelander said:
No, I didn't mean back off from me. I meant that if you cannot provide proofs for your claim of direct knowledge that God exists then back off of that claim and instead state correctly that you believe that God exists but do not have shareable evidence of that existence.



This is the first statement I made about God here: "God is not outside of us, but is inside of us as the essence of existence."  If you're looking for proof of the God I'm speaking of like you'd look for proof of a tree, then you're not going to get it, by very definition.

I didn't know you couldn't make statements about your beliefs that you could then discuss the rationale for.

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have taken years of searching in the ways you mention. Most likely many more years of it than you and very rigorous at times in my life. My discoveries from this rigorous mental and emotional exercise is to conclude the absence of a God possessing human emotional attributes. I have come to be more Taoist in my thinking. I remain open to any possibility but make my best guess as to truth like everyone else whether they admit that or not.



Since you mentioned this, there are only a couple problems I see: assuming that all anyone has about the truth of things is a guess, and that the guess is sufficient.

Quote:

Icelander said:
We need to be open minded for real debate to take place as is intended in this forum. True believers only preach and that does not belong here is S&P. Mysticism forum would be the place. IMO anyone who cannot admit that they might be wrong are just acting self-important and ignorant. Of course anyone could be wrong about anything. Finite minds remember? We can't get all the info unless of course God is really made in our image.



Finite minds that can yet examine the truth of things.  You don't need to know about everything to understand the essence of the things that you do know.

Quote:

Icelander said:
For the simple and honest reason that there is a slight chance that there really isn't an apple there. In my dreams I see apples and believe in them and even eat them. Yet I awaken hungry.



Then the question would go on to analyze, what makes a thing an apple?  The thought process would then be categorical, philosophical and linguistic in nature.  This is probably the part of the process you are forgetting.  You have stated before that you are only able to guess at the truth, but what is the truth?  The nature of the truth is probably the next step in the process.  In the other thread you implied that you didn't know how to define what makes up the truth.  That's fine, but it makes further discussion impossible when you are unwilling to navigate down that path.

I've felt like discussion with you has been more fruitful, but it still is not fruitful enough.  I came here looking for philosophical discussions, and I will likely find better ones elsewhere.

Good luck on the path of life.  I hope you find what you are looking for. :thumbup:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488099 - 10/05/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Then you should pay more attention to what I said.
I never stated that there aren't some much more aspects of this reality or this Universe and that maybe our mind will never be able to apprehend. Life itself is a mystery. It is because we know so little.
This doesn't mean that what we don't know is god.
The tendency I observed in most religious people is that they label the great mystery, the great Unknown, by splitting it in two: God and Evil.
God is the mystery that happens to them and they like it, they find it useful in their lives, and Evil which are the unexplained things that happen to them and that make their lives more difficult (or simply they just don't appeal them for any other reason).
This IS our limited thinking, generated by fear and slackness. This is also because of the examples we get, because we grew up being taught that there is a god. Because it's concept that was born in our memory (early childhood) before we had any form of advanced awareness as well as the ability of using rational thinking.
This why the concept of god and Santa and the easter bunny are very much alike. Because they're legends produced by other people, they are myths and symbols at best. Because none of there three show any sign of existence.
You "reasons" to support the existence of god were composed by inner feelings which have nothing to do with an authentic philosophical inquire.
Also the personalisms you made only show your inability to debate and have nothing to do in this forum.
I hope I made myself myself perfectly clear and if you wish to continue this discussion, I'd suggest that you use reason instead of compulsive thinking. :fairy:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: Veritas]
    #7488121 - 10/05/07 11:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
This analogy doesn't work.  The equivalent of what you are saying would be if I looked at your friend, touched your friend, smelled your friend, tasted your friend (:naughty:) and heard your friend, acknowledged his existence, and THEN you claimed that his existence was proof that the Easter Bunny exists.  This IS a leap of faith, it IS illogical, and it does not constitute proof. :confused:

The natural world provides evidence of its' own existence, and claiming that it is evidence of a higher power is an expression of your opinion, not of fact.



This creates problems, because it seems that you believe that the identity of a person is relegated to their body.  What is this about an Easter Bunny?  You think that the Easter Bunny is analogous with somebody's personality? :confused: Because that was the whole point of the metaphor.

A person's body only provides evidence for that person's body is what you're saying, correct?  I hope I am reading you right and am not making any false assumptions.  Does a corpse have the same identity as a living body?  What philosophical, categorical and linguistic steps do you have to make to provide a distinction?  We can discuss those if I stick around long enough. :wink:

I hate trying to discuss philosophy with naturalistic atheists.  They always assume that there is only one kind of philosophy and are quite dogmatic about their position (irony :lol:) that only that which can be directly observed exists and is worth discussion. :shake:

I honestly am not interested in those kinds of discussions.  I'd probably rather talk with a group of fundamentalist Christians, which is saying alot. :whoa:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlineshakercee
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7488133 - 10/05/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The tendency I observed in most religious people is that they label the great mystery, the great Unknown, by splitting it in two: God and Evil.
God is the mystery that happens to them and they like it, they find it useful in their lives, and Evil which are the unexplained things that happen to them and that make their lives more difficult (or simply they just don't appeal them for any other reason)




It also explains their values towards their bodies.

Anything above the breasts :tongue: is good, and worthy, producing great thoughts and anything below the waist, oh noo, noo.  Don't even think about it.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488141 - 10/05/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Someone's personality is the expression of their consciousness, so their personality would not exist after they died, but their BODY still would.  I'm saying that the Easter Bunny is as related to the evidence of the existence of an individual as is the existence of God to the existence of the natural world.

IMO, it is an illogical extrapolation to claim that the factual evidence of the existence of the natural world is PROOF that God exists, which is what you have claimed. 

BTW, your personalisms detract from the progression of a reasonable discussion of this topic.  If you cannot refrain, then perhaps this is not the forum for you. :shrug:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488142 - 10/05/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I honestly am not interested in those kinds of discussions. I'd probably rather talk with a group of fundamentalist Christians, which is saying alot. :whoa:




:bye:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7488146 - 10/05/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Then perhaps you have allowed your conception of my beliefs to be clouded by past experience. I know for myself that none of those statements are applicable to me.

I don't know where you get that I was basing my thoughts upon inner feelings, but think that it may stem from your questionable bias about 'authentic' philosophy, whatever that may mean to you.

I refrained from making any personal statements throughout most of this thread (when others did make them). I have found those to be unfruitful to a good discussion. However, when it broke down into a meta-discussion filled with personal statements, that is what we got. You'll notice that with Icelander I tried to minimize these kinds of statements (did not react with personal statements in return for the most part, or at least minimized them). When you came around towards the end, you made assumptions about my beliefs, and so I made a statement about those assumptions and why I could not continue a discussion with you because you were unwilling to give actual explanations for your statements. I am sorry if you took that personally, though.

Basically, to sum up, I find it incredible that people are so willing to just abandon the wealth of knowledge, thought and philosophy of past centuries and try to create a new mode of thought entirely on their own. Something has gone seriously wrong with our culture.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: Veritas]
    #7488160 - 10/05/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Someone's personality is the expression of their consciousness, so their personality would not exist after they died, but their BODY still would.  I'm saying that the Easter Bunny is as related to the evidence of the existence of an individual as is the existence of God to the existence of the natural world.



Because of a preconcieved notion of the concept of God I am espousing?

Quote:

Veritas said:
IMO, it is an illogical extrapolation to claim that the factual evidence of the existence of the natural world is PROOF that God exists, which is what you have claimed.



I did not say that in the least.  I merely said that the nature of the kind of God I am referring to is expressed by the natural world.  I then went on to say that if we are going to discuss whether God exists or not, it must be a philosophical inquiry and not an empirical one.  I was merely switching the means of inquiry.

This is why I think naturalistic atheists are terrible at philosophy.  The naturalistic assumption doesn't seem to give much room for the possibility of a good discussion of metaphysics.

Quote:

Veritas said:
BTW, your personalisms detract from the progression of a reasonable discussion of this topic.  If you cannot refrain, then perhaps this is not the forum for you. :shrug:



But Icelander gets to stay? :smirk:

BYE, you guys! :bye:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488161 - 10/05/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Basically, to sum up, I find it incredible that people are so willing to just abandon the wealth of knowledge, thought and philosophy of past centuries and try to create a new mode of thought entirely on their own.




More accurately, you find it incredible that people question/doubt the validity of the God concept.  There is a wealth of knowledge, thought and philosophy which does not require faith.  For those of us to whom faith is unreasonable and unnatural, these realms of knowledge provide all the inspiration for creative living we require.  :sun:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488165 - 10/05/07 11:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

those who are simply content with leaving things in the horrible state that they are.

OK you didn't say life was horrible you said it was in a horrible state.:tongue: I say life is not in a horrible state. It's a beautiful day today in my neighborhood. Life IMO is good and bad. light and dark, joy and pain, all the things that make the Ultimate Tao. It's all one thing and it's all happening, and were just one part and no more important (or less) then an ant or a grain of sand. U.R.B.4.U.R.

I don't believe in a creator but in creation itself. I believe we create a creator in our image to feel safe in an unending, unlimited, chaotic creation that is beyond finite understanding. Being finite, and confronted with infinity is anxiety provoking at times. That's one reason why people fear death. They don't know what death is or what will happen so they make up beliefs to reassure themselves of their continued existence even though there is no real evidence for it. That seems to be human nature.



I came here looking for philosophical discussions, and I will likely find better ones elsewhere.

Awww, careful or you might hurt someones feelings.:rofl2:

But I agree. I was looking for a better debate myself but as for S&P I would have to say I have had worse.

So I say good luck to you on your search,:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488229 - 10/05/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think, basic concepts should be covered with less words :tongue:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488264 - 10/05/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Then perhaps you have allowed your conception of my beliefs to be clouded by past experience. I know for myself that none of those statements are applicable to me.




No.
It's a pure psychological proven fact, and my own experience of reality adds to those facts. :smirk:

Quote:

I don't know where you get that I was basing my thoughts upon inner feelings




Hmm let's see :strokebeard: :

Quote:

God-consciousness releases us from self-consciousness. Even the person who simply lets go and moves on with their life is working within this same type of consciousness. It's called by some 'humility' and 'perserverance'. The problem for most is that we're too danged self-conscious about anything and everything.




And

Quote:

It's not that I try to enforce a concept of God on my environment, it's that my environment demands it. I think of myself as simply a bunch of molecules interacting with all the other molecules, and suddenly I feel an overwhelming presence within and through everything holding it all together. :sheesha: That's not something anyone has taught me. I repugn the ideas of others and have learned to continually break free of the mold to think for myself to find such a dynamic reality. :gethigh:

God is not outside of us, but is inside of us as the essence of existence. That is why it is both herself and us working together. God is like the Logos of Greek philosophy, the principle holding everything together. Surely you believe there's coherence in the universe; so do I, and believe that it is the same power by which we live and move. :rockon:




And

Quote:

Of course there's an inward conception of God just as we have for everything else; but that does not mean that of necessity it is not also an outward reality. Nor, when it is seen as an outward reality, does it cease to be an inward one. The outside is inside, and the inside is outside. :strokebeard:

To internalize something greater than yourself is to give yourself power to live even greater. To continually turn inward and look only to yourself is to feed your own weak impulses and degenerate into a self-defeating cycle. We step outward from ourselves to find our true selves, but lock ourselves inward only to starve ourselves of meaning and its necessary development.




And the list could go in forever and ever but I think I made my point.
All that you stated here is directly linked to inner experiences, to inner mental processes. Why? Because you present no fact. or evidence.

Quote:

ev·i·dence      (ěv'ĭ-dəns)  Pronunciation Key
n. 

  1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.
  2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.
  3. Law The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as testimony in a court of law.




See?
I looked REALLY good but nothing like that in your affirmations. :sherlock:

Quote:

but think that it may stem from your questionable bias about 'authentic' philosophy, whatever that may mean to you.




Then do it instead of bitching about my perspective upon philosophy. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Basically, to sum up, I find it incredible that people are so willing to just abandon the wealth of knowledge, thought and philosophy of past centuries and try to create a new mode of thought entirely on their own. Something has gone seriously wrong with our culture.




The philosophy of past centuries has many flaws.
There's nothing wrong with improving the concept of philosophy in accordance to our needs, in order to make our lives less confusing. And I should add that Parmenides idea on philosophy, the one I referred to earlier, is not what I would call "new". :grin:
Real philosophy is about reason, and not the mumbo jumbo, phantasmagoric, a la Alice in Wonderland people are used to. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7488267 - 10/05/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You're making so many assumptions (like that belief in God takes an irrational leap of faith)




It does. If it were rational, then we could all follow along step-by-step.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7488336 - 10/05/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

By definition yes that's true. God is a belief not a verifiable fact. Not for most people anyway and that makes it somewhat suspect. Just the fact that almost everyone who believes in a God defines it differently is very, very suspect. If you are really willing to look at things like this you may quickly or slowly come to the conclusion that each person defines God according to subjective personal needs.

To know the mind of God if there is one is to know what infinity is about and we just can't IME. My conclusion from examining available evidence is that God is a made up thing. But I don't know for sure. I have to trust my ability to look at what is apparent evidence to me, and come to a best guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Posts: 45,414
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Re: What do Organised Religion and Mind Control have in common? [Re: Icelander]
    #7488355 - 10/05/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

My conclusion from examining available evidence is that God is a made up thing.




Is that an Oregon, er, an Orgone Conclusion?


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