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wps
Well-PaidScientist


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Veritas]
#7468647 - 09/29/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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So once we've trashed THIS planet, we'll be free to zip off to new and yet-to-be-trashed planets? Sorry, this just doesn't make sense.
well, thats not really what I was saying.
the more we understand and develop our technology, the more environmentally friendly we can make it. the more we learn, the more we can minimize our own footprint in the environment while still enjoying the benefits of technology. We wouldn't even be AWARE of our environment's health status if it weren't for technology and science.
don't blame science for bad politics and greedy businesses. Environmentally friendly technology is scientifically possible. Its not technological advancement that is holding environmentalism back, but rather it is a business infrastructure that is too heavily invested in obsolete and environmentally harmful methods. We could be driving hydro-cells right now instead of combustion engines. that technology exists RIGHT NOW, its just a matter of convincing the owners of infrastructure to cough up the dough to make the upgrades. Pollution isn't a result of the scientific process, but rather the political and economic process. Don't blame science for that. Politicians have been crooked and inept, and businessmen have been greedy and lacking in social conscience since way before the advent of science 
I fail to see how abandoning the pursuit of knowledge and its practical application will increase our wisdom, common sense, or practicality. If anything I would think that a greater understanding of the universe would make us wiser in the long run.
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We have made so many mistakes in our husbandry of the Earth's resources
I agree. So do most scientists. but mistakes are part of the growing process, right? I mean, babies don't learn how to walk without falling a few times. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes so that we may better coexist harmoniously in our environment. Abandoning technology is kind of extreme. We really just need to start taking the environment into account more when developing our tech.
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As long as we continue to think that the solution is OUT THERE, we will destroy whatever natural environment we inhabit.
sure, there is more to the world than our physical surroundings. there is a rich inner universe inside all of us that should be nurtured and explored. But that doesn't mean you can just ignore the outer for the sake of the inner. Thats just as bad as ignoring the inner for the sake of the outer! The key is balance.
Outer development does not necessarily come at the detriment of the environment or inner development. Its perfectly OK and probably a good idea to keep a foot in both the inner AND outer worlds. The development of technology isn't a question of should we or shouldn't we, but rather HOW should we, in order to bring about the greatest good for all concerned?
I think we can have a lot of fun with the infinite sandbox full of toys that is our universe, without screwing it up too much, as long as we are careful and considerate about the effects our actions have on our surroundings.
We could even go so far as to improve the nature of our surroundings. We could spread life to places where there is no life now.
and why wouldn't you want to explore new worlds? what good is a forest on a distant planet if there is no sentience there to experience its sight, sound, and smell? By colonizing other areas of the universe we could spread sentience to what is now inanimate. Why would you be so self-loathing, as a divinely conscious entity, to think that spreading sentience and life is a bad thing?
-------------------- "America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve." - Tom Morello
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7468706 - 09/29/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aaaahhh, so you were the one who left this sitting out in space..... 

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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wps
Well-PaidScientist


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7468715 - 09/29/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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PhanTomCat said: Aaaahhh, so you were the one who left this sitting out in space..... 

>^;;^<
no, but I wouldn't mind seeing it, up close and personal
-------------------- "America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve." - Tom Morello
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7468721 - 09/29/07 10:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy



Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7470148 - 09/30/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't buy for a second that continuing technological advancements are going to be the dawn of a new era. Such advances are utterly dependent on our growing (and precarious) economy, it's infrastructure, and the obscene amounts of dinosaur juice that run it all (that nothing will replace, guaranteed). Take away the dino juice and EVERYTHING...the whole equation...will grind to a halt, and we will probably go native on each other Mad Max style because as a collective we are unadvanced emotionally and are only kept civilized and cooperative by sedation and fear. All this about futristic technology is just as far fetched as 2012 or anything else.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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wps
Well-PaidScientist


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Grok]
#7470197 - 09/30/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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there are many sources of energy besides fossil fuels even right now. Who knows what the future will bring.
to say that nothing will ever replace fossil fuels is basically saying that you've seen the entire future of the human race and completely understand the nature of the universe, which no one can.
so spout off all you want, it doesn't prove anything. Your position is logically indefensible.
-------------------- "America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve." - Tom Morello
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: wps]
#7470238 - 09/30/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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wps said: Who knows what the future will bring.
Apparently, all of the science fiction writers.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy



Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: wps]
#7470294 - 09/30/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It may be "logically indefensible" but I'll put money on it. You don't have to know the ultimate nature of God's own cum to see that our world can't stumble along forever like this. There is nothing that will substitute petroleum in terms of being as transportable, abundant and cheap to produce, and having as much energy as it does. If there was we'd be on it like flies to shit. You will NEVER see a nuclear powered aircraft, for instance. Spout off all you want, nothing can take the place of oil, and our economy cannot continue as it does without it, and technology cannot progress without the surplus that is generated by our economy.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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wps
Well-PaidScientist


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Grok]
#7470352 - 09/30/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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'never' and 'always' are risky words to use,
especially when combined with a pessimistic attitude.
science is a journey, not a destination. there are no absolutes, and everything is questionable.
I'm sure at some point they said the same things about coal and steam that you are now saying about petroleum.
-------------------- "America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve." - Tom Morello
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7470369 - 09/30/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Huehuecoyotl said:
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I don't really think that all this forward motion on the material level will ever bring humanity to where it claims it wants to go. (world peace, personal happiness etc.)
I have to ask. Why do you even care? Whatever humanity does will most likely not interfere with your goals and desires. As a matter of fact achieving that which makes you happy can be insanely easy. I am trying more and more to let "humanity" do it's own thing...while I do mine.
Humanities thing is your thing. You are delusional if you believe otherwise.
I care because I choose to care. And I acknowledge that I am part of the human race and am and will always (while living) be affected by what humanity does. Just not to the degree or in the ways that some may think.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Grok]
#7470373 - 09/30/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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All this about futristic technology is just as far fetched as 2012 or anything else.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Icelander]
#7471324 - 09/30/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Humanities thing is your thing. You are delusional if you believe otherwise.
I quite agree. I just took an opposite stance from my normal one to see how you would respond. I truly believe that you ARE your culture.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Exiztenzial
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 15
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Grok]
#7471502 - 09/30/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Grok said: It may be "logically indefensible" but I'll put money on it. You don't have to know the ultimate nature of God's own cum to see that our world can't stumble along forever like this. There is nothing that will substitute petroleum in terms of being as transportable, abundant and cheap to produce, and having as much energy as it does. If there was we'd be on it like flies to shit. You will NEVER see a nuclear powered aircraft, for instance. Spout off all you want, nothing can take the place of oil, and our economy cannot continue as it does without it, and technology cannot progress without the surplus that is generated by our economy.
Coal (which there are still HUGE reserves of underneath much of the western world) can be turned into a liquid approximately equivalent to gasoline by a process called gasification (Nazi Germany did it to power their vehicles when none of the major petroleum producers would trade with them any more.) Once that starts running out, there's still solar power, wind power, hydroelectric power, geothermal power, etc. The only issue is to design an efficient process which converts that power into stored chemical energy, such as methane or hydrogen. If you think that no one will be able to come up with such a process in the 100 or so years it would take to deplete all of the remaining oil and coal resources, you have far less faith in scientists and engineers than I.
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Exiztenzial
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 15
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7471508 - 09/30/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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The only issue I see if our petroleum reserves run out is in plastics production, since cheap plastics depends pretty much entirely on side products of petroleum distillation. Even still, there a plenty of cheap, nearly equivalent polymers which don't depend on oil.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Here's what I think but the chances of this happening are about one in a million. [Re: Exiztenzial]
#7474725 - 10/01/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Exiztenzial said: Even still, there a plenty of cheap, nearly equivalent polymers which don't depend on oil.
They are working on them, but they do not have all of the bugs out of them yet to replace the current petroleum based plastics.... The polymers made from corn - which are biodegradable - do look very promising, but still bugs, and still expensive.... "They" need to work on recycling systems, and get people to care about recycling things properly....
WAY off topic.....! 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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