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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
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Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
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Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
a little less spirituality and a little more...
    #7466617 - 09/29/07 08:22 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

philosophy!!

one of the reasons i quit participating in the discussions here is because half of the posts are about "ego", "contemplate my existence", "what is an emotion" and other eccentricies.

philosphy is a little more grounded on earth and a little more practical in use.

this thread is about discussing common reality, being a good natured person, and promoting happiness through positive thinking and practices. It's also about solving every day problems through philosophy. all of which will be explained in simple, earthy terms for dumb-tards like myself.

so i'l start this off with my question i'd like some thoughts on from all of you:

manipulation. we all do it. how can we use this for good? i have some friends that need a nudge in the right direction. I don't want to be an ass and tell them what they're doing wrong, how do you help someone see this for themselves?

whats a good general practice for ethical and philosphical manipulation? kinda like coaching without being seen as a coach.

any help will be appreciated. these guys have good hearts but are wasting themselves.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7466645 - 09/29/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

And why do you feel like you know better than them?
Everybody's free to live their to live their lives the way they want and think it's best for them.
"Manipulating" and the whole idea of what you wanna to your friends just sounds low to me. What you could do, if you really feel like doing anything about it, is to just be open with them and say how you feel about the entire situation. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... *DELETED* [Re: moon_glue]
    #7466799 - 09/29/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: y



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineSilvermind
A SleepytimeGorilla
Male

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 21
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7466811 - 09/29/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
If you have to ask about manipulation on a website, maybe you should start practicing on manipulating smaller things like pets or insects first rather than friends.




:grin:

Haha! You'll probably hear on the news about this guy getting mauled to death by a Bear one of these days!


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7466827 - 09/29/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

manipulation. we all do it. how can we use this for good? i have some friends that need a nudge in the right direction. I don't want to be an ass and tell them what they're doing wrong, how do you help someone see this for themselves?

whats a good general practice for ethical and philosphical manipulation? kinda like coaching without being seen as a coach.

any help will be appreciated. these guys have good hearts but are wasting themselves.


Check out the ideas on Stalking by Carlos Castaneda as they are perfect for what you are asking.

Ethics are personal, so do whatever you want.

And your judgment that your friends are wasting themselves is just your opinion and I highly suggest you keep this in mind.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineravin0ff
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7467282 - 09/29/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

NLP(Neuro-Linguistic Programming)

learn how your friends perceive the world, and how you can help lead them to states which are more beneficial.

but then again, you were probably looking for something easy.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: ravin0ff]
    #7467284 - 09/29/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

can help lead them to states which are more beneficial.(for your benefit)

NLP, the ultimate wannabe manipulators tool.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineravin0ff
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7467388 - 09/29/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

lol, that's not NECESSARILY true.

like hypnosis, it's a tool which you can use to empower or remove power from them.

it's whatever you choose to do with it.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: ravin0ff]
    #7467396 - 09/29/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have known some serious NLP folk. They were often self imployed sales people and always looking for the upper hand. Very much like politicians.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7467425 - 09/29/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ick.  I dislike interacting with manipulative shysters who think that their methods aren't transparent. :tongue:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Veritas]
    #7467429 - 09/29/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That rules out just about everybody. I'm glad you made that exception in my case.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7467434 - 09/29/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

a little less spirituality and a little more...
     
Rock & Roll! :hairmetal: :drumming:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7467449 - 09/29/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well, your shystering is cute.  :grin:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7467526 - 09/29/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Manipulation, like the Indo-European root for the Manipura Chakra suggests, is about power. All power can do is eliminate inner and outer obstacles in the power-holder so that a space for Compassion can come about. Compassion is 'skillful means' in Buddhism and has a sense of guide, guidance, soul-guide [psychopomp] about it. One shows others by embodying a truth him/herself. Manipulate your own inner and outer variables but do not manipulate or lay your trip on others unless they request something from you.

Obviously, the power-motive is completely ego-centric. It is about the 'will,' the Castenadian navel "gap" with its "fibers" of 'will.' Manipulating others is nothing but ego-tripping. Ask yourself: Who am I to direct others without their request? Who besides yourself decided that your insight and wisdom is superior to that of others?

Manipulation without request and consent is never ethical. This is why I refused to learn and use hypnosis in psychotherapy practice for a long time until I matured sufficiently to encompass its use 1) at the request of others and 2) guided by Compassionate and ethical motives.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7467669 - 09/29/07 04:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

why don't you start by trying to manipulate yourself.
the more you know about yourself the more help you can be to someone else.
but manipulating is such a stretch of a sense of self importance,
I did read your post, and well, hmm. that's where you are at I guess.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Veritas]
    #7467692 - 09/29/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Well, your shystering is cute.  :grin:




Just part of my evil plan to have fun.:hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Male


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
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Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7467975 - 09/29/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

also, what is you's guys's stance on sexual relations with domestic animals?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7467984 - 09/29/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:what: :eek:

I guess that this is my reaction

Out of sudden curiosity... what does it have to do with the original suject? :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7467987 - 09/29/07 06:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moon_glue said:
also, what is you's guys's stance on sexual relations with domestic animals?




I'm for it. :thumbup: All parties consenting of course.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Male


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7468001 - 09/29/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

moon_glue said:
also, what is you's guys's stance on sexual relations with domestic animals?




I'm for it. :thumbup: All parties consenting of course.





keep your pets away from icelander!!


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7468434 - 09/29/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

So, you are contemplating that manipulation is within my existence....
Do you think it is an emotional reaction, or simply an ego indulgence....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7470458 - 09/30/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

there we go again with that damn "e" word


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: moon_glue]
    #7470616 - 09/30/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My take is that it depends on the type of manipulation you have in mind. If a person is open to help, you help them. If a person isn't open to help, the best help you can give them is to lead by example, and they will notice. It doesn't mean they will react to it, but your example will always be there in their mind if they care to use it.

Manipulation can be bad and still produce results at the same time. In other words, they may do things to please you, but not themselves. They may improve in some way, but they will feel like they're inferior and being drug along, and they will remember that too.

Manipulation also affects the manipulator. How's it feel to think other people must be manipulated in order to improve? A lifetime of manipulation, the big father who knows best, putting all his energy into changing the world, only to end up bald with a handful of hair.

Why not let people be losers? It's what they want. To believe otherwise is to believe that you are inherently superior, and they are inherently inferior. You'll have them worshiping you or hating you before they learn anything of real value. If you can present a lesson in a manner that is exciting and obviously worth their time, they may be open to learning from you. If you can't, they either don't want to learn at present, or your lessons are lacking.

I'm not saying that manipulation is a bad thing, but all the participants must be willing. If you can find that spark of desire behind the negative attitude, the manipulation will be very easy. If all you connect with is the resistance, the manipulation will be very difficult.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7470695 - 09/30/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Of course, had you been born a female you would have learned from an early age how to manipulate every man alive by effectively alternating charm with pouting or tears as each situation dictates. Women don't have to ask about manipulation, they just MANipulate.




This is one of the most ignorant things I've read.
First of all it doesn't apply to all the cases and then, why blame it all on women? From what I know, nobody's "manipulated" without their admission.
It's just good to keep that in mind because you just made an error in thinking, an error which most certainly takes from one's ability to enjoy life. :grin:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7470713 - 09/30/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:rockon:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7470736 - 09/30/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I would say if you want to manipulate your friends you should ask first why you want to be friends with these people, or more importantly, why they want to be friends with you. If you feel the need to change them then you probably are not good friends.

All people have bad and good qualities. I would say you need to focus more on the good and just accept the bad. Not that you should not strive for improvement, we always should, but things that are out of your control you can only accept them as they are.

If something a friend is doing bothers you then it is my belief that you should talk to them about it and explain your stance on things. If they are truly a friend they will understand. Depending on what the problem is they may very well not want to listen and be offended by what you are saying and this is ok. Over time they will think about what you have said and realize that if you were not truly their friend then you would not be honest with them in the first place. If they do not realize this then you could try talking to them again or realize that it is not worth your time and move on.

This is merely my opinion and what I would do, I do not claim this is the right thing to do, that is up to the individual to decide.


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Offlineajdaak
raver for life
Male


Registered: 09/14/07
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Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: a little less spirituality and a little more... [Re: Icelander]
    #7470740 - 09/30/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

what i have learned about trying to steer anyone in a direction is you can only tell them the things you have learned in life ans tell your experiences and hopefully they learn to but if you push them most likely you will loose friends


--------------------


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