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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000
#7465245 - 09/28/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- For 11 years, Pedro Zapeta, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala, lived his version of the American dream in Stuart, Florida: washing dishes and living frugally to bring money back to his home country.
Two years ago, Zapeta was ready to return to Guatemala, so he carried a duffel bag filled with $59,000 -- all the cash he had scrimped and saved over the years -- to the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport.
But when Zapeta tried to go through airport security, an officer spotted the money in the bag and called U.S. customs officials.
"They asked me how much money I had," Zapeta recalled, speaking to CNN in Spanish.
He told the customs officials $59,000. At that point, U.S. customs seized his money, setting off a two-year struggle for Zapeta to get it back. Video Zapeta describes how he lost his money ยป
Zapeta, who speaks no English, said he didn't know he was running afoul of U.S. law by failing to declare he was carrying more than $10,000 with him. Anyone entering or leaving the country with more than $10,000 has to fill out a one-page form declaring the money to U.S. customs.
Officials initially accused Zapeta of being a courier for the drug trade, but they dropped the allegation once he produced pay stubs from restaurants where he had worked. Zapeta earned $5.50 an hour at most of the places where he washed dishes. When he learned to do more, he got a 25-cent raise.
After customs officials seized the money, they turned Zapeta over to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The INS released him but began deportation proceedings. For two years, Zapeta has had two attorneys working pro bono: one on his immigration case, the other trying to get his money back.
"They are treating me like a criminal when all I am is a working man," he said.
Zapeta's story became public last year on CNN and in The Palm Beach Post newspaper, prompting well-wishers to give him nearly $10,000 -- money that now sits in a trust.
Robert Gershman, one of Zapeta's attorneys, said federal prosecutors later offered his client a deal: He could take $10,000 of the original cash seized, plus $9,000 in donations as long as he didn't talk publicly and left the country immediately.
Zapeta said, "No." He wanted all his money. He'd earned it, he said.
Now, according to Gershman, the Internal Revenue Service wants access to the donated cash to cover taxes on the donations and on the money Zapeta made as a dishwasher. Zapeta admits he never paid taxes.
CNN contacted the U.S. Attorneys office in Miami, U.S. Customs and the IRS about Zapeta's case. They all declined to comment. Don't Miss
* Census: Education divide among immigrant groups
Marisol Zequeira, an immigration lawyer, said illegal immigrants such as Zapeta have few options when dealing with the U.S. government.
"When you are poor, uneducated and illegal, your avenues are cut," he said.
On Wednesday, Zapeta went to immigration court and got more bad news. The judge gave the dishwasher until the end of January to leave the country on his own. He's unlikely to see a penny of his money.
"I am desperate," Zapeta said. "I no longer feel good about this country."
Zapeta said his goal in coming to the United States was to make enough money to buy land in his mountain village and build a home for his mother and sisters. He sent no money back to Guatemala over the years, he said, and planned to bring it all home at once.
At Wednesday's hearing, Zapeta was given official status in the United States -- voluntary departure -- and a signed order from a judge. For the first time, he can work legally in the U.S.
By the end of January, Zapeta may be able to earn enough money to pay for a one-way ticket home so the U.S. government, which seized his $59,000, doesn't have to do so.
cnn.com
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7465265 - 09/28/07 06:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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if he's on the up and up, that's so sad.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7465460 - 09/28/07 08:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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didn't pay taxes while he worked in the US...that's a big blemish on his story, IMO.
at the same time, considering all the circumstances, I think any american would be generally displeased with the notion of confiscating all of this man's money.
that's just a farce.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: afoaf]
#7465478 - 09/28/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder how much money would be left if they deducted back taxes and penalties and let him keep the rest.
BTW, aside from not paying taxes, he was here for 11 years! and didn't learn to speak English. WTF? Shit like that understandably pisses off a lot of Americans re illegal immigration. It's not uncommon either. I live in the Miami / Fort Lauderdale area and see it every day.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7465672 - 09/28/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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11 years in the country and he still doesn't know shit about our laws? Take the taxes he owes, give him whatever remains and kick his ass out of the country.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: DNKYD]
#7465708 - 09/28/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DNKYD said: 11 years in the country and he still doesn't know shit about our laws? Take the taxes he owes, give him whatever remains and kick his ass out of the country.
Sounds good to me
edit- hmm, but he did commit tax evasion and broke numerous laws. On second thought I would fine him a few thousand (above what he owes) and make him serve a little time before kicking him out.
Edited by Qubit (09/28/07 09:36 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: DieCommie]
#7466640 - 09/29/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
make him serve a little time before kicking him out.
I say just kick him out after giving him his money after taxes and penalties. Throwing him in jail isn't going to make anything better and will just waste taxpayer money.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: DieCommie]
#7466798 - 09/29/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Some of this is quite suspect. For instance, they say he paid no taxes and yet he had pay stubs. If he had pay stubs, he worked on the books and taxes were taken out. What he probably didn't do is file tax returns, which is a no no anyway but not nearly as big a deal as not paying. Who knows, maybe he was due a refund. He should pay the fines for failure to file and then get the money back except....
The money was a result of his illegal activity. We allow immigration to people who want to be Americans. We allow temporary workers to apply for work permits. We do not allow any asshole to come here and suck up our resources and then return home with their ill gotten swag. $5.50 an hour? Working 60 hours a week that amounts to about $17,000 a year. Deduct for soc sec and med and tiny taxes probably knocks that back to $15,000 per or a total of $165,000 take home. Subtract the $59,000 and he basically lived for eleven years working 60 hours a week on about $900 a month. $30 a day for every expense. Food was probably free but room, transportation, clothing, everything on $30 a day? Something doesn't add up. And that's if he worked 3,000 hours a year, which is a lot. Can you live on $5.50 an hour with all those extra hours? Sure. Can you put away more than 1/3 of that? I doubt it.
And fuck him for learning zero English, that's bullshit. My guess is that he availed himself of a tremendous amount of social services and now wants to fuck off with his subsidized swag. It's also my guess that this journalist is a retard who heard how little he made and how much he saved and asked no questions whatsoever. Willing suspension of disbelief indeed, especially if it drives your agenda. Have we seen this before? Well yes, Dan Rather comes to mind and Scott Thomas Beauchamp and everybody who bought into that fake "soldier" who just got sent to prison. "Lived frugally"? Maybe the pay stubs were just a portion of his income and he really didn't pay taxes at all. This fish stinks.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7467063 - 09/29/07 11:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:04 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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For 11 years this man either did or did not pay taxes according to the law, which taxes, based on his meager income, would come nowhere near covering his share of the collective services offered by our government and made zero effort to assimilate himself into America. The richest 10% pay 50% of the taxes. His share would be virtually nil, if he did in fact pay any at all. He also refused to apprise himself of the laws of the nation in which he was accumulating this wealth, by as yet unclear means. I say again fuck him and he's got some real explaining to do and not to an utterly gullible journalist with a sob story to sell about the big meanie man.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7467201 - 09/29/07 12:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:05 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Fuck them all.
Yes, fuck everyone equally, all humans.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
..fuck that guy & fuck all immigrants who don't want to assimilate into the fattest culture in the history of the world.
Would it be okay with you if someone stole thousands of dollars from a large corporation? After all, they're making tons of money..they won't miss a few measly bucks, right?
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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wps
Well-PaidScientist


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7467448 - 09/29/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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subtract taxes and fines, and deport the gentleman with the remainder of his funds.
case closed.
only a horrible, bungling bureaucracy would take more than five minutes to make that decision and enact it.
its the maddening delay of bureaucratic procedure that makes governments so frustrating to deal with sometimes.
but whatareyagonnado?
-------------------- "America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve." - Tom Morello
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: P.S. It's good to know that you so-called 'libertarians' are so strongly opposed, on principle, etc...etc..
zappa isn't a libertarian.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
...and made zero effort to assimilate himself into America.
Ok, thanks. That's what I wanted to hear... just to make sure there's no hypocrisy or double standards. I know when the European colonialists came to the Americas, they strived to so hard to learn the native languages & assimilate into the existing culture.
Yea, and that was bad too. No body is saying that what the Europeans did was right, it wasnt. We dont want to repeat this horrible history do we?
I hate to use a stupid old cliche, but this is a case where two wrongs dont make a right. Mexicans doing to modern americans what eupopeans did to native americans is not justice and is not right.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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What crap. Move on from this poor poor pitiful native thing. It is irrelevant. If he doesn't want to be a part of the current nation that is the USA he can stay the fuck home. He doesn't just get to suck our titty and anyone making that wage is not pulling his weight.
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Edited by zappaisgod (09/29/07 04:45 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7467883 - 09/29/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
"They are treating me like a criminal when all I am is a working man," he said.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: afoaf]
#7467887 - 09/29/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
at the same time, considering all the circumstances, I think any american would be generally displeased with the notion of confiscating all of this man's money.
As he is here illegally, they should keep it all/
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7468058 - 09/29/07 07:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:06 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#7468083 - 09/29/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:06 PM)
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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So "entheogenic spirituality" must be the answer to the illegal immigrant problem. No wonder our politicians haven't figured it out yet! They haven't been downing mescaline and dropping acid for a paradigm shift in perspective that will ultimately keep these drains-on-society out of our country.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7468243 - 09/29/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder if the almanac will ever list the major export of Mexico as "poverty".
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: DNKYD]
#7468260 - 09/29/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:07 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7468286 - 09/29/07 08:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:07 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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I believe your historical references don't relate to this. Jim Crow laws were a product of generations of thought based on the notion of the perceived inferiority of the African race. Any person within the USA who travels outside of its borders with a duffel bag filled with 59 grand, would have faced the same consequences.
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist



Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: ่ๆจ็ๅฅณๆ
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7468602 - 09/29/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Take his money and send his ass, back home.
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Fair is Fair
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
To indigenous people the "illegal immigrant invasion" began in 1492.
Actually the real problem goes back much further than that.
The real injustice happened when homo sapiens overtook homo erectus approximately 250,000 years ago.
Unfortunately the only way to correct this problem is for homo sapiens to immediately commit suicide en masse to allow room for other species to flourish.
Of course we could go back even further than that and provide justice for the primordial slime murder of the proto-plankton during the pre-Cambrian era. This outrage set back plankton evolution for 12.3 million years and caused massive suffering to the plankton which had settled peacefully in the Great Crustocrastyplasty Basin prior to the Slimo-Plankton war which lasted for some 1.1 million years.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#7470532 - 09/30/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
at the same time, considering all the circumstances, I think any american would be generally displeased with the notion of confiscating all of this man's money.
As he is here illegally, they should keep it all/
I disagree, they should take what he owes for taxes and fines, give him the balance back and then fine the fuck out of the company that employed him during that time.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: afoaf]
#7470799 - 09/30/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:08 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7470842 - 09/30/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:08 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7470864 - 09/30/07 03:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:09 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Margaret Mead was a fraud. The fact that you don't believe in borders is all sweetness and light but utterly irrelevant to the real world. No borders and no laws for the Peacable one. Because property is theft, don't ya know?
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Alion



Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 462
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Did the lawyers tell him that he couldn't see any of the money again if he doesn't take that deal??
I bet hes so confused, I know I would be if I went there without learning the nationally spoken language, laws or any of the other conduct.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7471041 - 09/30/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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kinda throws the "you cannot survive on minimum wage" thing out the window.
this guy came here, busted his ass, supported himself, and stayed out of trouble. i can't say i feel like his punishment for being on the country illegally should be very harsh.
there is definitely no moral justification for holding onto all of his money. that's his, he earned it, and he should get it back, minus a small fine.
as far as taxes, i'm in favor of no taxes at all for the very lowest earners. this guy certainly qualifies. he should be given a small fine for living here illegally and let on his way with the rest of the money he earned.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7474514 - 10/01/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:09 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
And comparing the unconscious history billions of years of evolution to willful & conscientious acts of mass murder, displacement, oppression & exploitation is hardly an accurate comparison.
How far back do you want to go in addressing grievances? It becomes a bit ridiculous after a while and also ensures we will live in a world of never-ending conflict as someone's ancestors have always been screwed over by someone else's ancestors if you trace your lineage back far enough.
The people who drove the red man from the land are long dead.
Get over it.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 5 hours, 4 minutes
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Although there are many debates on what historians believe, the vast majority believe that a nation is defined by three fundamental principles :
1. The nations physical borders
2. The language
3. Culture
Please tell me why you believe that anyone should be free to enter any nation weather it be from Middle America to North America, or vice versa, without any scrutiny, or respect for the laws that encompass that realm. Please cite any historical evidence of successful nations that permitted the behaviour/ actions you espouse as OK.
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7475783 - 10/01/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- --- nothing right now ---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:10 PM)
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StrandedVoyager
The People's Champ




Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 3,236
Loc: (202)-456-1414 Call Me
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Robert Gershman, one of Zapeta's attorneys, said federal prosecutors later offered his client a deal: He could take $10,000 of the original cash seized, plus $9,000 in donations as long as he didn't talk publicly and left the country immediately.
God Bless America. Extortion is this country's greatest skill
-------------------- Hi
My god... it's full of stars...
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7475805 - 10/01/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:10 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
Adherents to the same ideology of economically-motivated expansionism & imperialism that 'America' was founded on have been in the White House every term since it was built... with one or two arguable exceptions. So, no, they're not dead. Judging by Dick Cheney's current position of political power (the leader of the 'free world'), and the ridiculous amounts of money being made annually by "defense" contractors, "Drug War" profiting corporate thieves & just about every other special interest group with government connections so thorough the two are not distinguishable in many cases, I'd say they're presently alive & well... assuming one defines 'well' as being the richest & most powerful men in the world.
Once again you are taking your logic to the level of absurdity by spanning such a wide swath of history. Such thinking opens a Pandora's box containing many questions beyond the reach of any court:
Where does it end?
How far back do we go to address historic grievances especially considering the wronged parties have been in their graves for centuries?
How would we sort out each living individual's claim to a past wrong based upon his ethnicity? And btw, how the hell does being born to a certain ethnic group entitle one to a certain birthright?!
Isn't that the very thing you claim to be opposing?
Racism in reverse.
Also, if these wonderful entheogens lead us to a world without borders and surface differences, why the constant obsession with race?
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (10/02/07 02:18 AM)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7476726 - 10/02/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: Also, if these wonderful entheogens lead us to a world without borders and surface differences, why the constant obsession with race?
Because Leftists are obsessed with seperating the world into horrible and evil oppressors one one hand and the lovable and righteous oppressed on the other hand. The oppressors are to be hated and the oppressed are to be exalted. It is a lapse in logical thinking that is a perversion of liberal values.
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7476782 - 10/02/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whereas the right believes the opposite. The oppressors are to be exalted and the oppressed are to be hated. See Pinochet, Chile.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Margaret Mead was a fraud.
Don't tell me you're such a prude to object to publication of about the promiscuity of young Samoan girls?
Are you unaware that "Coming of Age in Samoa" was fraudulent? She made the whole thing up.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7476902 - 10/02/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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EP denies the sanctity of borders unless it is convenient for him to do so. See his continued bleatings about no right to invade Iraq. I might also point out that very few Guatemalans are indigenous either. A bullshit distraction.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7477124 - 10/02/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Technically he shouldn't have the right to any of that money. Not just the illegal immigrant part, but I'm talking tax evasion. Shit... anyone who's owed $ to the IRS knows that if you don't pay up FAST.. you'll get 100% interest in no time.... compounded over 20 years.. you'll owe 10x as much as you MADE in income.
But if we're really a nation that gives a shit about people, you gotta' be a little fair, I say give him back the 59 minus taxes and interest... so about 30k.
There are plenty of LEGAL immigrants that made the same as him that had to put in their share of taxes.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7477128 - 10/02/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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As I said earlier, I'm not sure he did or did not pay taxes. If he had pay stubs, his employer deducted money. Maybe he just didn't file returns. Then again, it's also hard to believe that he saved that much money making $5.50 an hour.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478126 - 10/02/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:12 PM)
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TheCow
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Well my organization, the Anthropological American Association says different. Who are you to believe my friend.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478188 - 10/02/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:12 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: TheCow]
#7478189 - 10/02/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:12 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478215 - 10/02/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:12 PM)
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TheCow
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true. Not a monty python fan i guess
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7478243 - 10/02/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:13 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: TheCow]
#7478245 - 10/02/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:13 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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entheogenic peace stated:
The only birthright I believe one is entitled to is control of themselves on a personal level, & the freedom to form whatever society they so do. I would never support an person or group of people foreign to Europe coming in and telling them (i.e. forcing them) to do things differently. If there is to be change in a given society (Europe, in this case), towards whatever new direction, then it is up to the people living there to do it & talk among, debate among & fight among themselves if it comes down to it
It seems somewhat hypocritical to me........ Why do you not support America's right to detain illegal immigrants and take money that was made in fraud????? Are you not trying to "force" your view on that society?I am pretty sure the vast majority of people within the USA agree with this.
Do you agree with France and what they are doing with the Muslim population???
On my other question, I was asking you to point out any nation throughout history that does not enforce it laws, in regards to its physical borders, and how long that nation existed.
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Are you unaware that "Coming of Age in Samoa" was fraudulent? She made the whole thing up.
Um, she went there & it was based on her observations of local culture & speaking with the native inhabitants, living among them for a time. When it comes to anthropology, I believe the American Anthropological Association has more credability than some smear website.
Margaret Mead was exposed as a fraud before there was an internet to have websites, smear or otherwise.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
I might also point out that very few Guatemalans are indigenous either.
Yes, that is presently the case, but it wasn't until the last quarter to half a century. Something(s) happened in that time period to quickly change that. I'll give you a hint: The series of events responsible for this, one man in particular, is linked to a U.S. military base in Fort Benning, Georgia.
Bullshit
Quote:
Moreover, it makes no difference to at all whether he is fully indigenous or mestizo... or white for that matter. He lived in poverty & worked hard so he could provide a better life for his family back home. That is to be highly commended of anyone. If everyone in the world shared that work ethic, selflessness, & commitment to the welfare of others in addition to their own, then there wouldn't be wars, greed or racism.
He stole services fraudulently and most likely cheated on his taxes.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
...how the hell does being born to a certain ethnic group entitle one to a certain birthright?!
The only birthright I believe one is entitled to is control of themselves on a personal level, & the freedom to form whatever society they so do on a community level. I would never support an person or group of people foreign to Europe coming in and telling them (i.e. forcing them) to do things differently. If there is to be change in a given society (Europe, in this case), towards whatever new direction, then it is up to the people living there to do it & talk among, debate among & fight among themselves if it comes down to it. Self-determination would be the simplest way to describe it. Reverse racism? That's ridiculous.
Do you oppose racism?
If an armed black or Hispanic male (or group of males) went into a white community, dragged hundreds of people from their homes beating them along the way, lined them up along a curb or sidewalk or wherever, & summarily executed them... men, women, children, the elderly, the handicapped, everyone... what should be done to them?
I would say the death penalty. If you don't believe in that, then I think the absolute bare minimum any people would say life in prison, hard labor, with no 0% chance of ever leaving.
If the situation is the other way around, shouldn't the punishments be the same... in a non-racist society?
Is this English?
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478769 - 10/02/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/22/08 09:01 AM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478819 - 10/02/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:15 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7478831 - 10/02/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:15 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7478918 - 10/02/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:17 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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I think you have some very well thought out objectives, and you articulate them pretty clearly, however, they are in my view Utopian. There will all ways be nation-states, devolution of them, balkanization,.....and so on. To end these things would be to end human nature......both the dark and the good....it just won't happen my friend.
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: The following is what the American Anthropological Association said of the book published to discredit her studies of (pre-colonial) Somoan culture: "poorly written, unscientific, irresponsible and misleading." It shouln't be surprising that you stand where you do on this issue, though, given your strong dislike & distrust of science and history.
Of course they hated that book, she was one of their darlings and they were hoodwinked by her. By the way, what was "scientific" about her "research"? Were there any experiments? She reminds me of Sigmund Fraud. Science, I love and respect science greatly. Up until very recently a bachelors degree in Anthropology was a B.A. not a B.S. It may still be so.Quote:
When, one a very important & relevant scientific issue, you have the following on one side... the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the Joint Science Academiesโ Statement of 2007, the U.S. National Research Council, the American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, the American Institute of Physics, the American Astronomical Society, the Federal Climate Change Science Program, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London, the Geological Society of America, the American Chemical Society, & the The Institution of Engineers Australia... while "think tanks" comprised of psuedo-scientists created by & largely funded by ExxonMobil on the other side; we know who you side with.
Please, stay on topic. I have dealt with this elsewhere. Remember the NASA scientist Hansen who went all over the place screaming that he was being censored? Well he wasn't, his research had to be restated and he is a Soros puppet. You can be a sucker if you want but I don't have to.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: "People of all ages were not only shot, they were burned alive, hacked to death, disemboweled, drowned, beheaded. Small children were smashed against rocks or bayoneted to death." - Amnesty International
"Not even the lives of the elderly, pregnant women or innocent children were spared. We have never in our history seen such serious extremes." - Guatemalan Council of Catholic Bishops
80-85 percent of the victims of Guatemala's "civil war" were Mayan Indians. Rรญos Montt, as well as six of his of his top nine generals, were attended the School of the Americas.
George Orwell had you in mind when he wrote, "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."
But the question was, and you avoid this, were a majority of Guatemalans indigenous before that or not? And is this guy? And what does this have to do with his theft from the US? Nothing. Unfocused, inattentive and scattershot blather. That last sentence of the penultimate paragraph is incomprehesible. Probably irrelevant as well. Did you write it yourself? Nice linkage too, by the way.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7481659 - 10/03/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:18 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7481685 - 10/03/07 04:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:19 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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You asserted that I hate science, as part of your personal attack. S'OK, I don't mind, but you seem to consider what she did "scientific". Somebody else had grossly different observations. I would call neither science but the more recent observations certainly call Ms Mead's into question, as well as her "scientific" conclusions vis a vis nature versus nurture. Off topic, there will be no more on this here.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
But the question was, and you avoid this, were a majority of Guatemalans indigenous before that or not? And is this guy?
I believe Bolivia is the only Latin American country with a majority indigenous population. You're right, Guatemala didn't have a majority fully indigenous population... even before their (recent) severe repression & mass murder in the regimes following the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. I never said they (fully indigenous) were (a majority)... I said it didn't matter what skin color or ethnicity he is. He worked hard to make a better life for his family & I commended that. If there is blame to be placed on someone for disobeying the laws, it's the employer who hired him & paid him... as the man in the story wouldn't have known them.
But he is a descendant of hegemonic invaders. Where Oh Where do you draw the line?
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7481708 - 10/03/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:19 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7481722 - 10/03/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:20 PM)
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wilshire
free radical


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every time a new thread gets started, members should start a pool on how many posts it'll take before entheogenicpeace is off on some chomsky tangent that bears no relevance at all to the original topic of the thread.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: wilshire]
#7481926 - 10/03/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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As a standing bet I'll put it at 3. By the third post he/she is gone.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7483111 - 10/03/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:21 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: wilshire]
#7483129 - 10/03/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:21 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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how any of this man's present problems are his fault, and not his employer's, considering he didn't know the language or the laws?
He knew that it was illegal for him to butt in front of everyone else patiently waiting in line to immigrate legally. And now that he got caught he cries foul of the consequences?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7483878 - 10/04/07 06:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been following this thread, but still cannot decide which side I support. The part of me that opposes the government being allowed to seize private property (money in this case) is warring with the part of me that dislikes illegal aliens.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7484519 - 10/04/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7486518 - 10/04/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:22 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7486548 - 10/04/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:22 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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> So you have no problem with the "illegal" worker being punished for ignorance of U.S. law
The irony is that if the illegal alien had followed the rules and gone through the immigration process then he would have been required to learn the basic US laws before entering the country and wouldn't be in his current predicament.
> If you "dislike illegal immigration", then I'm guessing you support the only logical & plausible way of stopping it?
Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not. When somebody skips the immigration process they are by definition an illegal alien, not an illegal immigrant... remember, they skipped the immigration process?
You guessed wrong. I am pro-immigration and anti-illegal alien. The immigration process is very difficult and obnoxiously insane at times. I know, as I have spent five years helping one of my employees become a US citizen. I think the laws need to be updated rather than building a fence. I've said many times that I have no problem letting one extra person that is waiting in line into the country for every illegal alien that is deported.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7487803 - 10/05/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7487949 - 10/05/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not. When somebody skips the immigration process they are by definition an illegal alien, not an illegal immigrant... remember, they skipped the immigration process?
Sounds like you're splitting hairs here. You know what he meant.
I'm all for being even overly sympathetic to illegal aliens, but what's funny to me is when they start marching to demanding benefits that is payed for by taxpayers.. Northern Virgina (down the road from me) is trying to pass a law that would not allow aliens to be treated in hospitals and such and the aliens are protesting like mad..
I say.... pay your FUCKING taxes and then you have the right to protest that you aren't getting taxpayer services. How are you going to start a huge demonstration saying you aren't being treated fairly when you're ripping the system off.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7487974 - 10/05/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:44 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7488052 - 10/05/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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> Sounds like you're splitting hairs here. You know what he meant.
Not at all. People use the nonsensical "illegal immigrant" to try and and make it sound as if the illegal alien is an immigrant being treated unfairly by the law. This is not the case. The person skipped the immigration process, thus the person is not an immigrant.
It goes with my personality type:
Quote:
Precise about their descriptions, INTPs will often correct others (or be sorely tempted to) if the shade of meaning is a bit off. While annoying to the less concise, this fine discrimination ability gives INTPs so inclined a natural advantage as, for example, grammarians and linguists.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7488193 - 10/05/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:45 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7488518 - 10/05/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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BrAiN said: Whatever... illegal immigrant.. illegal alien.. all the same shit.
It is similar although I think "illegal alien" better describes the people we are talking about here.
Amnesty supporters regularly employ semantics to shade the issue. For example, using the term "undocumented workers". Or "migrants".
Anything to obscure the fact that illegal aliens are breaking the law.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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EntheogenicPeace said:
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Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
So you have no problem with the "illegal" worker being punished for ignorance of U.S. law, yet you also don't have have problem with his employer(s) not being prosecuted for willful violation of U.S. law?
I don't know that they did. The article said the guy had pay stubs. A great deal is unclear about this. If they broke the law they too should be fined.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7489121 - 10/05/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:24 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Unfortunately, we are talking about the legal definition of immigration, hence the use of "illegal" or "legal" in front of the word.
> If one call themself a libertarian
Me? I will be very impressed if you can find a post where I called myself a libertarian.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 5 hours, 4 minutes
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EntheogenicPeace said: migrate: to go from one country, region, or place to another
immigrant: a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
Regardless of whether or not they followed a given nation's specific laws, they fit the above definitions nonetheless. So it is not inaccurate to call them migrant workers or immigrants.
P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
I do have first hand experince, as I was a dispatcher for a temporary labor force in which 80% was made of Hispanic workers. There was no doubt how hard those guys worked.....one of the major reasons, I believe why, is because there is no welfare in Mexico, unlike America.
But to simply "look away" just because the work ethic of a particular person is exceptionial, does not make any sense, in regards to the law. If that were the case, alot of convicted felons should be sent free from our prisons.
-------------------- โI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.โ
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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EntheogenicPeace said:
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...and made zero effort to assimilate himself into America.
Ok, thanks. That's what I wanted to hear... just to make sure there's no hypocrisy or double standards. I know when the European colonialists came to the Americas, they strived to so hard to learn the native languages & assimilate into the existing culture.
Yeah, fuck that guy & fuck all immigrants who don't want to assimilate into the fattest culture in the history of the world. Fuck every immigrant who doesn't want to assimilate into a society that, despite only having 5% of the world's population, consumes anywhere from 20-40% of the world's resources. Fuck every immigrant who doesn't want fully assimilate into a society that, for every person on the earth to live in such a manner, would take between 3-5 earths to accommodate. Fuck them all.
Nice to see you're still trying to bring up historical mistakes and evils to justify modern-day mistakes and evils.
You know, I've heard it said that one of the bigger peeves people have with American tourists is that none of them know the language of where ever they visit, and just expect people to speak English. Ya don't have to be fluent, but learning a bit before you travel abroad goes a long way. Now here we have an example of someone who LIVED here for 11 years and can't speak english, but of course we're supposed to respect that because, omigarsh didn't you know America is the Great Satan, why, we let our women roam free and even have homosexuals out in the open!
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zappaisgod said: As I said earlier, I'm not sure he did or did not pay taxes. If he had pay stubs, his employer deducted money. Maybe he just didn't file returns. Then again, it's also hard to believe that he saved that much money making $5.50 an hour.
Not neccessarily, you don't HAVE to have taxes withheld on your taxes. You can just pay them when you file.. but many people don't because it's a pain in the ass, and the gov't loves that because they get to play with your money longer.
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EntheogenicPeace said: P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
Of course employers love them. They can pay them shit. They can fire them on a whim. They can break OSHA regs out the ass without having to worry about any complaints.
Nice to see that after all your screaming about.. everything else.. you are in favor of the exploitation of the downtrodden?
Frankly I'm quite opposed to illegal immigration, and those reason I list above are the primary issues I have with the whole thing. LEGAL immigration, hey, sure! Come be an American. Bring your family, start a new life. Stop making it even easier for corporations to exploit the hell out of you -- they will anyway, but don't bend over and give them a clear shot. Just do it legally, so we know if you need a polio vaccination, or if you killed a bunch of hookers back home.
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Mushmonkey]
#7490736 - 10/06/07 08:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mushmonkey said:
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zappaisgod said: As I said earlier, I'm not sure he did or did not pay taxes. If he had pay stubs, his employer deducted money. Maybe he just didn't file returns. Then again, it's also hard to believe that he saved that much money making $5.50 an hour.
Not neccessarily, you don't HAVE to have taxes withheld on your taxes. You can just pay them when you file.. but many people don't because it's a pain in the ass, and the gov't loves that because they get to play with your money longer.
You are wrong here. Unless the "employee" can make some kind of case that he is a subcontractor it is mandatory for the employer to withhold and send his taxes to the government. If the employee claims a ridiculous amount of exemptions he can be fined. They're also cracking down on spurious subcontractor claims. There are other mandated costs to employers as well, such as unemployment, disability, and workmen's compensation insurance. These things are not required for subcontractors but a dishwasher has zero claim to that status.
Further, even subcontractors or other self employed have to file estimates and pay quarterly, not annually.Quote:
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EntheogenicPeace said: P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
Of course employers love them. They can pay them shit. They can fire them on a whim. They can break OSHA regs out the ass without having to worry about any complaints.
Nice to see that after all your screaming about.. everything else.. you are in favor of the exploitation of the downtrodden?
Frankly I'm quite opposed to illegal immigration, and those reason I list above are the primary issues I have with the whole thing. LEGAL immigration, hey, sure! Come be an American. Bring your family, start a new life. Stop making it even easier for corporations to exploit the hell out of you -- they will anyway, but don't bend over and give them a clear shot. Just do it legally, so we know if you need a polio vaccination, or if you killed a bunch of hookers back home.
The more I think about it the more I am convinced that it would have been impossible for this man to have amassed such a hefty nest egg on that pay without availing himself of the public largesse in a very real way.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Mushmonkey]
#7491115 - 10/06/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:26 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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to corporate interests, they're not a "drain on society"
Well of course to corporate interests illegal aliens do not represent a drain, but to society overall they do.
They need to return to their country of origin and apply to enter this country legally like everyone else.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7492460 - 10/06/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:26 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7492486 - 10/06/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:27 PM)
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich



Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
Loc: down, down the hole
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7492498 - 10/06/07 08:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: What crap. Move on from this poor poor pitiful native thing. It is irrelevant. If he doesn't want to be a part of the current nation that is the USA he can stay the fuck home. He doesn't just get to suck our titty and anyone making that wage is not pulling his weight.
Hey, most people who make that amount of money do the shit that you and I don't want to. And America's economy needs people like this, otherwise we wouldn't have our cheap produce or our manicured lawns. While I agree that he should have tried to do the "legal" thing, people who claim that immigrants are ruining this country don't realize that realize that these individuals are the support system that keeps YOUR life cushy and comfy.
If he has pay stubs, and was able to produce them, then he most definitely paid his taxes. He might not have filed, but he surely paid them. Otherwise, he would not have a stub to prove that the money was rightfully his.
Also, for those claiming that $30/day is not much to live off, you don't know how these people live. I grew up in a town FULL of illegals and they don't live like your or I, they live 20-30 people cramped into a tiny place. They don't eat like you or I either, they eat mostly beans and rice, not the "mexican" food one finds at don pablos or taco bell.
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: trippindad82]
#7492713 - 10/06/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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most people who make that amount of money do the shit that you and I don't want to.
That is a false statement that people like to quote to make it seem like they know what they are talking about. I am not necessarily referring to you but to most people who recycle that tired myth.
Of course many Americans would be willing to do these jobs if paid a decent wage! Hellllooo?? This fact tells you why the corporations want them here- to exploit their cheap labor, not because they are compassionate.
Quote:
people who claim that immigrants are ruining this country don't realize that realize that these individuals are the support system that keeps YOUR life cushy and comfy
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Nonsense.
Illegal aliens, not "immigrants" as you have called them, take more out of our country in the form of social services than they bring in.
They need to return to their countries of origin and apply for citizenship like everyone else.
-------------------- โThe crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.โ -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: trippindad82]
#7493529 - 10/07/07 03:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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And America's economy needs people like this
This isn't true. NPR recently did a story on a town near Mexico that got tough on illegals. They put a big effort into rounding them up and exporting them back home.
Guess what happened to the local businesses that were illegally employing them? Did they suddenly find themselves without the labor they need to function?
Nope. A bunch of previously-unemployed LEGAL Asian immigrants immediately stepped in and took over the jobs, and at a fair (read: legal) wage.
This idea that the US somehow 'needs' illegals is politically correct bullshit.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich



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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7493697 - 10/07/07 07:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am not necessarily talking about traditional businesses. And I didn't explain myself well enough.
Yes, if businesses paid more for certain jobs, then more people like you and I would do those jobs. However, being that bosses choose how much to pay a person to do a job, they will always support the idea that someone who cleans toilets is only worth minimum wage whilst someone who wears a shirt and tie and does nothing more than give orders below and suck dick from above is far more valuable. I think that corporate America has lost sight of what work really is. Unfortunately, you or I don't really get to choose what we make, which is a good thing and a bad thing.
And where I was saying that America NEEDS illegals is for your fresh produce. Would you want to toil away in fields picking vegetables/fruit all day in the heat/sun for minimum wage? Not I and not most people. For farmers whose costs for growing your food are rising (fuel, pesticides (not for myself as I eat organic) and more fuel) it is difficult to stay competitive AND make money. Many farmers end up going out of business per say because they can't make enough.
I also don't agree with the illegal migrant workers. I do know that they cost the US a lot of money in social programs. However, to keep your cost of living in check (with CHEAP foods), we unfortunately need these individuals. You might think differently, but go talk to a struggling farmer who is barely making ends meet and ask him who he would rather employ, an illegal who will accept anything or a legal who is going to demand more for his toil. I don't agree with the scenario that is forced upon the farmers, but don't hate them because YOU want your cheap produce. My solution? Kids need to stop being such little weenies and lets go back to how things were 50 years ago. My dad's first job in high school was picking fruit for the local farmer. In fact, many kids 50 years ago worked on farms. But, then again, kids today are pansies who would rather work for some corporate asshole who gives them some miniscule pay and discount wherever they work.
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: trippindad82]
#7493713 - 10/07/07 07:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You might think differently, but go talk to a struggling farmer who is barely making ends meet and ask him who he would rather employ, an illegal who will accept anything or a legal who is going to demand more for his toil.
Most of my relatives are farmers and the above is simply not true. Large corporate farms are the ones that hire illegals, and also happen to be the ones that put traditional farmers out of business. Small farmers support each other at harvest time, thus illegal aliens are not needed. The irony is that illegals actually cost small farmers more, not less, as the illegals allow large corporate farms to operate cheaply at the tax payers expense.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: trippindad82]
#7493731 - 10/07/07 08:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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And where I was saying that America NEEDS illegals is for your fresh produce.
Again, nope.
A large fraction of the illegals in that town NPR reported on worked migrant agriculture jobs. The LEGAL Asians were happy to take over and do the work legally.
You can ignore the truth and regurgitate the PC line all you like. The truth will still be the truth: there are enough LEGAL immigrants to do this work, and all the illegals do is keep the legal ones on the unemployment dole by virtue of their willingness to work for less than minimum wage.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7493747 - 10/07/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
most people who make that amount of money do the shit that you and I don't want to.
That is a false statement that people like to quote to make it seem like they know what they are talking about. I am not necessarily referring to you but to most people who recycle that tired myth.
i've never seen whitie picking fruits or working on lawns i've known fuckers who lost their job because an immigrant was willing to work for half the price for double the work let them apply legally, thats fine. illegal thats not okay this is a problem, yeah it is. but shouldn't we focus on something bigger, as well. like the fucking war thats getting troops slaughtered everyday ..gas prices?!
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich



Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
Loc: down, down the hole
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Diploid]
#7493770 - 10/07/07 08:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Diploid said: And where I was saying that America NEEDS illegals is for your fresh produce.
Again, nope.
A large fraction of the illegals in that town NPR reported on worked migrant agriculture jobs. The LEGAL Asians were happy to take over and do the work legally.
You can ignore the truth and regurgitate the PC line all you like. The truth will still be the truth: there are enough LEGAL immigrants to do this work, and all the illegals do is keep the legal one on the unemployment dole by virtue of their willingness to work for less than minimum wage.
So, then maybe the problem is NOT the illegals but the employers who employ them? And at the same time, having grown up in a community with a large population of illegals doing the work for farmers who were barely making a buck, I still say that many produce items would rise in price if they farmer had to pay more out of NOTHING.
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Bill Maher is as much of a douche as Rush Limbaugh
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7493849 - 10/07/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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BrAiN said: Bill Maher is as much of a douche as Rush Limbaugh
Even more. I'd tie him with O'Reilly. Both intellectual lightweight panderers. Limbaugh, not so much.
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich



Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7493851 - 10/07/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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BrAiN said: Bill Maher is as much of a douche as Rush Limbaugh
Minus the political ties/power. Also, BM is not a circular talker like RL is and he also doesn't talk about something unless he knows what he is talking about.
I have no intention of derailing this thread.
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: trippindad82]
#7496062 - 10/08/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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> I still say that many produce items would rise in price if they farmer had to pay more out of NOTHING.
What is wrong with that? Do farmers not have the right to make a profit much the way union workers have a right to make a profit? While we are at it, why not fire all union workers and replace them with illegals so that everything is cheaper? Ooops... that logic doesn't work so well.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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