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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7484519 - 10/04/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7486518 - 10/04/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:22 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7486548 - 10/04/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:22 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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> So you have no problem with the "illegal" worker being punished for ignorance of U.S. law
The irony is that if the illegal alien had followed the rules and gone through the immigration process then he would have been required to learn the basic US laws before entering the country and wouldn't be in his current predicament.
> If you "dislike illegal immigration", then I'm guessing you support the only logical & plausible way of stopping it?
Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not. When somebody skips the immigration process they are by definition an illegal alien, not an illegal immigrant... remember, they skipped the immigration process?
You guessed wrong. I am pro-immigration and anti-illegal alien. The immigration process is very difficult and obnoxiously insane at times. I know, as I have spent five years helping one of my employees become a US citizen. I think the laws need to be updated rather than building a fence. I've said many times that I have no problem letting one extra person that is waiting in line into the country for every illegal alien that is deported.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7487803 - 10/05/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7487949 - 10/05/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seuss said:
Sorry, there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are legal, illegal aliens are not. When somebody skips the immigration process they are by definition an illegal alien, not an illegal immigrant... remember, they skipped the immigration process?
Sounds like you're splitting hairs here. You know what he meant.
I'm all for being even overly sympathetic to illegal aliens, but what's funny to me is when they start marching to demanding benefits that is payed for by taxpayers.. Northern Virgina (down the road from me) is trying to pass a law that would not allow aliens to be treated in hospitals and such and the aliens are protesting like mad..
I say.... pay your FUCKING taxes and then you have the right to protest that you aren't getting taxpayer services. How are you going to start a huge demonstration saying you aren't being treated fairly when you're ripping the system off.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7487974 - 10/05/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:44 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7488052 - 10/05/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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> Sounds like you're splitting hairs here. You know what he meant.
Not at all. People use the nonsensical "illegal immigrant" to try and and make it sound as if the illegal alien is an immigrant being treated unfairly by the law. This is not the case. The person skipped the immigration process, thus the person is not an immigrant.
It goes with my personality type:
Quote:
Precise about their descriptions, INTPs will often correct others (or be sorely tempted to) if the shade of meaning is a bit off. While annoying to the less concise, this fine discrimination ability gives INTPs so inclined a natural advantage as, for example, grammarians and linguists.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7488193 - 10/05/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by BrAiN (03/13/08 12:45 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: BrAiN]
#7488518 - 10/05/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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BrAiN said: Whatever... illegal immigrant.. illegal alien.. all the same shit.
It is similar although I think "illegal alien" better describes the people we are talking about here.
Amnesty supporters regularly employ semantics to shade the issue. For example, using the term "undocumented workers". Or "migrants".
Anything to obscure the fact that illegal aliens are breaking the law.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
So you have no problem with the "illegal" worker being punished for ignorance of U.S. law, yet you also don't have have problem with his employer(s) not being prosecuted for willful violation of U.S. law?
I don't know that they did. The article said the guy had pay stubs. A great deal is unclear about this. If they broke the law they too should be fined.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Seuss]
#7489121 - 10/05/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:24 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Unfortunately, we are talking about the legal definition of immigration, hence the use of "illegal" or "legal" in front of the word.
> If one call themself a libertarian
Me? I will be very impressed if you can find a post where I called myself a libertarian.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: migrate: to go from one country, region, or place to another
immigrant: a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
Regardless of whether or not they followed a given nation's specific laws, they fit the above definitions nonetheless. So it is not inaccurate to call them migrant workers or immigrants.
P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
I do have first hand experince, as I was a dispatcher for a temporary labor force in which 80% was made of Hispanic workers. There was no doubt how hard those guys worked.....one of the major reasons, I believe why, is because there is no welfare in Mexico, unlike America.
But to simply "look away" just because the work ethic of a particular person is exceptionial, does not make any sense, in regards to the law. If that were the case, alot of convicted felons should be sent free from our prisons.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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EntheogenicPeace said:
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...and made zero effort to assimilate himself into America.
Ok, thanks. That's what I wanted to hear... just to make sure there's no hypocrisy or double standards. I know when the European colonialists came to the Americas, they strived to so hard to learn the native languages & assimilate into the existing culture.
Yeah, fuck that guy & fuck all immigrants who don't want to assimilate into the fattest culture in the history of the world. Fuck every immigrant who doesn't want to assimilate into a society that, despite only having 5% of the world's population, consumes anywhere from 20-40% of the world's resources. Fuck every immigrant who doesn't want fully assimilate into a society that, for every person on the earth to live in such a manner, would take between 3-5 earths to accommodate. Fuck them all.
Nice to see you're still trying to bring up historical mistakes and evils to justify modern-day mistakes and evils.
You know, I've heard it said that one of the bigger peeves people have with American tourists is that none of them know the language of where ever they visit, and just expect people to speak English. Ya don't have to be fluent, but learning a bit before you travel abroad goes a long way. Now here we have an example of someone who LIVED here for 11 years and can't speak english, but of course we're supposed to respect that because, omigarsh didn't you know America is the Great Satan, why, we let our women roam free and even have homosexuals out in the open!
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zappaisgod said: As I said earlier, I'm not sure he did or did not pay taxes. If he had pay stubs, his employer deducted money. Maybe he just didn't file returns. Then again, it's also hard to believe that he saved that much money making $5.50 an hour.
Not neccessarily, you don't HAVE to have taxes withheld on your taxes. You can just pay them when you file.. but many people don't because it's a pain in the ass, and the gov't loves that because they get to play with your money longer.
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EntheogenicPeace said: P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
Of course employers love them. They can pay them shit. They can fire them on a whim. They can break OSHA regs out the ass without having to worry about any complaints.
Nice to see that after all your screaming about.. everything else.. you are in favor of the exploitation of the downtrodden?
Frankly I'm quite opposed to illegal immigration, and those reason I list above are the primary issues I have with the whole thing. LEGAL immigration, hey, sure! Come be an American. Bring your family, start a new life. Stop making it even easier for corporations to exploit the hell out of you -- they will anyway, but don't bend over and give them a clear shot. Just do it legally, so we know if you need a polio vaccination, or if you killed a bunch of hookers back home.
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Mushmonkey]
#7490736 - 10/06/07 08:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmonkey said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: As I said earlier, I'm not sure he did or did not pay taxes. If he had pay stubs, his employer deducted money. Maybe he just didn't file returns. Then again, it's also hard to believe that he saved that much money making $5.50 an hour.
Not neccessarily, you don't HAVE to have taxes withheld on your taxes. You can just pay them when you file.. but many people don't because it's a pain in the ass, and the gov't loves that because they get to play with your money longer.
You are wrong here. Unless the "employee" can make some kind of case that he is a subcontractor it is mandatory for the employer to withhold and send his taxes to the government. If the employee claims a ridiculous amount of exemptions he can be fined. They're also cracking down on spurious subcontractor claims. There are other mandated costs to employers as well, such as unemployment, disability, and workmen's compensation insurance. These things are not required for subcontractors but a dishwasher has zero claim to that status.
Further, even subcontractors or other self employed have to file estimates and pay quarterly, not annually.Quote:
Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: P.S. The few employers that I talk to all say that "illegal aliens" are better workers overall than native U.S. citizens. If one call themself a libertarian, isn't part of that philosophy believing that jobs should to those individuals whom the employers want; those who will be most reliable & work the hardest? I though libertarians reject the state bureaucracy (of which borders & citizenship are part of) & believe in a free market.
Of course employers love them. They can pay them shit. They can fire them on a whim. They can break OSHA regs out the ass without having to worry about any complaints.
Nice to see that after all your screaming about.. everything else.. you are in favor of the exploitation of the downtrodden?
Frankly I'm quite opposed to illegal immigration, and those reason I list above are the primary issues I have with the whole thing. LEGAL immigration, hey, sure! Come be an American. Bring your family, start a new life. Stop making it even easier for corporations to exploit the hell out of you -- they will anyway, but don't bend over and give them a clear shot. Just do it legally, so we know if you need a polio vaccination, or if you killed a bunch of hookers back home.
The more I think about it the more I am convinced that it would have been impossible for this man to have amassed such a hefty nest egg on that pay without availing himself of the public largesse in a very real way.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: Mushmonkey]
#7491115 - 10/06/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:26 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
to corporate interests, they're not a "drain on society"
Well of course to corporate interests illegal aliens do not represent a drain, but to society overall they do.
They need to return to their country of origin and apply to enter this country legally like everyone else.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7492460 - 10/06/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:26 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Illegal Immigrant Loses $59,000 [Re: zorbman]
#7492486 - 10/06/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/01/18 08:27 PM)
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