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Offlinekriminalelement
"jesus wept."
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Registered: 09/26/07
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I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but
    #7460514 - 09/27/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I've noticed a lot of people on this forum, and in my little college town, that support Ron Paul. And for good reason. He is the only candidate who supports ending the war on drugs running for president. I was considering voting for him on that sole issue, even though he wants to privatize education (which I am vehemently against).

I understand very, very well why it is important to support Ron Paul. I have seen too many people go to prison for non violent drug offenses. I have been seriously harassed and debased by police officers looking for drugs.

I was raised by a man who voted for a Republican in every single presidential election (except the last one. He's really pissed at Bush about the whole "war" thing, his father went through a lot in wwII and he's generally opposed to violence). He said that if I ever got a tattoo or voted Democrat I would be disowned. But he also said this:

"K, you and I agree on more things than you think. Birth control should be mandatory. And abortion is one of the greatest inventions of all time, ahead of indoor plumbing, electricity, coal power, and antibiotics. Man invented fire, the wheel, and abortion. Good work guys. Keep it up."

Has anybody considered that Ron Paul is more vocal about ending abortion in this country than he is about the war on drugs? Does that offend anybody else as much as it offends me? I really don't like it when men tell me what to do with my body. That sort of, you know, grinds my gears a little bit. I'm also morally opposed to bringing an innocent life onto this disgusting pig ridden war torn planet. Is it still okay to support Ron Paul for his recognition of some civil rights (that affect me directly right now) in spite of his sexist policies towards women? I haven't decided yet and I'd like to debate the issue. Should I do like my father and support a "reasonable" person even though they are publicly opposed to abortion?


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinekotik
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7460576 - 09/27/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

even with all the things I dont agree with Ron Paul about, he is still leagues above the other candidates, as far as concern with freedom goes.

Even considering his stance on abortion, and religion... he's the best choice.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Registered: 05/29/07
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7460631 - 09/27/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Im kinda torn... i like his drug policy, but i absolutely cant stand anyone that wants to even try and make abortions illegal. If i got pregnant right now, Id have an abortion asap... even the pregancy would be close to ruining my life if i was forced to keep it till full term, even if i was gonna give it away at the end.

exactly how driven is he about making abortions illegal?


--------------------
:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7460634 - 09/27/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You bring up valid points.

But maybe you should take into consideration, when voting, that there is no way in hell that Ron Paul will be in any position to end the war on drugs if elected president. He will, however, be in a very strong position (backed by supreme court and maybe congress) to make sure that you and your daughters will go to jail if they ever try to get an abortion.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblewps
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Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7460650 - 09/27/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

this is what I expect from american politics

a candidate who has some platform points I like, and others I don't

I have never voted simply because there has never been a candidate I felt was worth voting for. none of the mainstream or sideshow politicians have come up with a platform I completely agree with.

voting in this country is basically a decision of how you want to be oppressed.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Registered: 05/29/07
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460666 - 09/27/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, pretty much... its more of a choice of who is going to be 'not as bad' as the others. I would totally vote for ron because i like some of his policies, but i might not just because of the one abortion thing...

I hate american politics, and the choices we have for president


--------------------
:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Posts: 15,608
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7460674 - 09/27/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This is another thing that bugs me...most people think Libertarians are all pro-life. I'm a libertarian and I'm super super pro-choice not because I give a shit about a woman's right to choose but because there are too many people in the world and scummy people are breeding too much.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460713 - 09/27/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I usually vote based not on a politician's entire platform, but based on what issues may actually get changed and are in a period of flux. Despite the fact that I agree wholeheartedly with Ron Paul's platform on drugs, I don't see what the hell he is going to be able to do about it, much less how he could get elected.

My vote will go to the presidental candidate who seems to have the best solution for Iraq, followed by the best solution for the current health care fiasco, and doesn't have any intention of outlawing abortion or otherwise re-writing the law of the land to appease the religious right. Beyond that I am willing to make a lot of concessions.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineShroomieGirl
What are these god damn animals
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Registered: 05/29/07
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7460718 - 09/27/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

sounds like what im looking for too :thumbup:


--------------------
:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460754 - 09/27/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:
this is what I expect from american politics

a candidate who has some platform points I like, and others I don't

I have never voted simply because there has never been a candidate I felt was worth voting for. none of the mainstream or sideshow politicians have come up with a platform I completely agree with.

voting in this country is basically a decision of how you want to be oppressed.




OK, so if you don't get every single thing you want you are going to take your ball and go home. And you consider this oppression. You insult everybody in the world who actually is oppressed. Call a Wahhhmbulance, somebody has a hurt butt.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7460757 - 09/27/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I honestly hate breeders. families with 4-5-6 fucking children! its fucking Ridiculous ! I even lost some good friends because i told the husband to secretly get a Vasectomy.

but i am still pro-life,I just feel bad for the little guys....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
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Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7460772 - 09/27/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

wps said:
this is what I expect from american politics

a candidate who has some platform points I like, and others I don't

I have never voted simply because there has never been a candidate I felt was worth voting for.  none of the mainstream or sideshow politicians have come up with a platform I completely agree with. 

voting in this country is basically a decision of how you want to be oppressed.




OK, so if you don't get every single thing you want you are going to take your ball and go home.  And you consider this oppression.  You insult everybody in the world who actually is oppressed.  Call a Wahhhmbulance, somebody has a hurt butt.




sounds to me like you're the one who's butthurt.  problems with people expressing their opinions much?  :lol:

don't worry, I'm planning a tour of the 3rd world in which I apologize to every starving child for complaining about America.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7460776 - 09/27/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I honestly hate breeders. families with 4-5-6 fucking children! its fucking Ridiculous ! I even lost some good friends because i told the husband to secretly get a Vasectomy.

but i am still pro-life,I just feel bad for the little guys....





Meh...I think it's better for the world and for the children if they just don't exist.  Would you want to be born to some scumbags who don't raise you right and shit?  You are being doomed to a life of crap and scumminess.  I'd rather be aborted.  :shrug:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460785 - 09/27/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

3rd worlds definitely changed my views about America.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460810 - 09/27/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:

sounds to me like you're the one who's butthurt.  problems with people expressing their opinions much?  :lol:




wps said;
"Wahhhhhhh, I expressed an opinion and somebody was mean to me.  They must be butt hurt because I should get to say anything without challenge, wahhhhhhh."
People express their opinions all the time here.  I fairly regularly take them to task for what I perceive to be stupid opinions.  You are the first one to ever suggest that I was doing it because their opinion somehow "hurt" me.  I do it for sport and educational value for the young and unformed.  My intended audience is not necessarily the original idiot.  For instance, it gladdens my hideous heart that you refuse to vote. 
Quote:



don't worry, I'm planning a tour of the 3rd world in which I apologize to every starving child for complaining about America.




I'm sure they'll take great comfort in that.  Will you be bringing DDT?


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Invisiblewps
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Male

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7460811 - 09/27/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

people in foreign countries are more oppressed than me, therefore I am not oppressed.

:smirk:


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460834 - 09/27/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Some are, some aren't. You certainly are not except by the definition of a spoiled brat who doesn't always get his way. Wahhhhhh.


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Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
Male

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7460872 - 09/27/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and you sir, certainly are not logical except by the definition of a bitter man who thinks in binary.  beep boop beep.

:lol:


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7460886 - 09/27/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i think a lot of people have basically been duped into supporting ron paul because he talks about the constitution a lot and he wants to end the iraq war/war on drugs. he's a straight talking guy who says "common sense" things, and people like that of course. however, a lot of liberals that support him really crack me up because they don't do a little research and discover that he's pretty much against everything they claim to stand for. i know...lesser of two evils, stopping the war comes first...the whole surrendering all your beliefs thing and choosing the lesser of two evils bullshit kind of makes me want to throw up.

however, if you're a libertarian then you probably should support him. not that he has a chance in hell of winning, but whatever.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7460894 - 09/27/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:
people in foreign countries are more oppressed than me, therefore I am not oppressed.

:smirk:





Yup let the people know that on your 3rd world tour! Our borders need to be closed!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7460903 - 09/27/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i'm glad your butts not hurt.:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but *DELETED* [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7460928 - 09/27/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by zappaisgod

Reason for deletion: silly and petty



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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7461076 - 09/27/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

zappaisgod, please don't make fun of people. this is a political forum. if you attack someone, attack their ideas, not them. you don't even know if wps is younger than you. how old are you anyway? sixty? seventy? how old do you have to be to be technically "formed" as you put it?

I really liked the comment about people being duped into supporting Ron Paul. Quietly letting out the message that he is against our war and publicly speaking on issues that he CAN change is really manipulative.

He can't change Congress' and the FDA's mind singlehandedly, so I agree that he won't be very effective in the drug war. And I'm not a libertarian..... so I guess I'm doing a write-in vote this year. Now I just have to decide which dead author I should elect.....


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7461149 - 09/27/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kriminalelement said:
zappaisgod, please don't make fun of people. this is a political forum. if you attack someone, attack their ideas, not them.




Yeah, your right, although calling for the wahhhmbulance was perfectly fine
Quote:

you don't even know if wps is younger than you. how old are you anyway? sixty? seventy?


50
Quote:

how old do you have to be to be technically "formed" as you put it?



It's not an age thing so much as a maturity thing. It generally occurs when you shed any pretense of leftist thought


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7461170 - 09/27/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

holding political opinions you think are contemptible doesn't make someone immature. and how do you define a leftist exactly? how do you even know someone is a leftist? just because they say something in agreement with a tiny fraction of "leftist" thought in a little forum on the internet doesn't make them a leftist.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7461173 - 09/27/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I will try and be cool to you. We only have one regular females point of view in this forum and I'm not even sure shes really a female.:ooo:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
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Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7461230 - 09/27/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It's not an age thing so much as a maturity thing. It generally occurs when you shed any pretense of leftist thought




hah. I am NOT a leftist by any means, but I certainly wouldn't call a leftist a spoiled brat just because I didn't agree with him. THAT would be immature of me.

the thing about voting is, its the individuals right to do it or not do it the way they choose. It would be a real shame if someone let your fallacious attacks deter them from doing it the way they wanted to do it, simply because you disapproved.

luckily, no one gives a damn what you think. And so, people continue to vote they way they want to, without checking in with you for approval.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinekotik
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7461298 - 09/27/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It's not an age thing so much as a maturity thing. It generally occurs when you shed any pretense of leftist thought




:lol:

in that case, what level of maturity would someone have, who is half your age, and has transcended the false left/right paradigm?

:shrug:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kotik]
    #7461304 - 09/27/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

in that case, what level of maturity would someone have, who is half your age, and has transcended the false left/right paradigm?





nice


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7461743 - 09/27/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I like Ron Paul, he seems like the most genuine guy in the field of candidates. I would say the only other candidate that seems as genuine as him would be McCain... but thats basically just my impression.

Anyway, if I had to choose right now I would choose Ron Paul. There are some things I wonder about him though. Mostly I just don't like politicians (who does!?). I probably wont vote, we will see who wins the candidacy of each party.

One thing that Ron said in an interview I watched of him made me sort of chuckle... he pointed out that our policies lately have been to spread democracy and etc, but our own presidential elections strictly are between 2 parties. You have to have $$$ and the support of one the 2 parties to even be on the ballot. I wouldn't mind if the system allowed more candidates more exposure and possibility to become President.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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OfflineShroomieGirl
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: andrewss]
    #7463686 - 09/28/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah... I wish there were more choices, but what can i do?  :shrug:  im not about to go out and try for pres, or try n change the system myself.


--------------------
:bouncysmoke:

I'm ok, really.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7463805 - 09/28/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the thing about abortion vs drug law is that to overturn Roe v Wade would
require litigation all the way up the food chain to the supreme court.

to enact any change in the WoD would not require full judicial review, it
could be as nuanced as calling the federal dogs off of state issues such
as medical mj and dispensaries.

a president can pretty much aim his attorney general and the minions below
him where he pleases....let's start prosecuting large corporations that
employ illegals, cyber-crime (5% of FBI agents lol), letting the Patriot Act
die and weakening the NSA...all this can be done without engaging every
check and balance in the book.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: afoaf]
    #7464615 - 09/28/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

wps said:
Quote:

hah. I am NOT a leftist by any means




I'll be the judge of that later, but it is pretty much exclusively leftists who whine about being oppressed in America.  Except for the occasional skinhead who wants to beat up homos and hang Negroes.

As to your attitude about your vote, which you will withhold if no one meets all of your criteria, I do indeed find it childish.  But I'm grateful.  You will never vote.  :thumbup: 

kotik said:

Quote:

in that case, what level of maturity would someone have, who is half your age, and has transcended the false left/right paradigm?




None.  There is nothing false about it.  It is a general description, not a prescription, and to deny it's existence is basically lazy crap for the confused.


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Invisiblewps
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7464686 - 09/28/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah those damn lefties with their medical marijuana dispensaries getting raided by federal men with MP5's should really quit bitchin.  Not oppressed at all.  there is no oppression in America. 

have you ever had cops come in your home and point a machine gun at you and toss your place because you may have had some dried plant matter laying around?

I have. 

so I kind of take offense when someone says I'm whiny and not oppressed.  Kind of a hard viewpoint to swallow when the memory of a gun poking in your back is still quite vivid. 

as for voting, I think its a waste of time.  it seems to me the best way to influence american politics is to start a business and make myself wealthy.  much more effective than voting, I'd say :wink:


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7464739 - 09/28/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:
yeah those damn lefties with their medical marijuana dispensaries getting raided by federal men with MP5's should really quit bitchin.  Not oppressed at all.  there is no oppression in America. 

have you ever had cops come in your home and point a machine gun at you and toss your place because you may have had some dried plant matter laying around?

I have.




No.  Nor has anyone I know or knew for over 35 years of......  Because we weren't morons.  The drug laws are the laws of the PEOPLE.  Blame your neighbors.  You are not "oppressed" because of drug laws.  Ask the monks in Burma.  Ask the homos in Iran.  If you don't want your house tossed because of the laws of the people DON'T SMOKE POT.  It's an idiot drug anyway.
Quote:



so I kind of take offense when someone says I'm whiny and not oppressed.  Kind of a hard viewpoint to swallow when the memory of a gun poking in your back is still quite vivid. 

as for voting, I think its a waste of time.  it seems to me the best way to influence american politics is to start a business and make myself wealthy.  much more effective than voting, I'd say :wink:




You got that last right.  Of course, if your idea of a business is dealing reefer you are kinda fucked.  And smoking reefer isn't going to help you get there.  I didn't mind you not voting, it was just your previously stated rationale, which was that there was no one you agreed 100% with so you just said no.  THAT was the bratty part.  There will never be one single human you agree 100% with.


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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7464804 - 09/28/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How is pot an idiot drug zappa please explain? I know alot of people with upstanding job's that smoke regularly. So obviously your calculation's are a bit biased I'd say. Just because cheech&chong act retarded sometime's doesn't mean that what it does for all pot head's you know. Oh and please stop with the thinking you know about what goe's on behind the scene's because you obviously have no clue. I went to a hydro store and got raided not because I grow pot but because I grow freaken vegetable's so please shut up because you don't have any idea what your talking about. Learn through experience not just what you hear someone saying.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla



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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7464809 - 09/28/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's an idiot drug anyway.




Feynman after all, was quite the idiot


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Invisiblewps
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7464849 - 09/28/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah at this point I'm gonna quit debating you because there is no purpose in debating the willfully ignorant.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7464866 - 09/28/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

With a man such as Dr. Paul, a little extra thinking is required. I think your deduction is flawed: you say that he wants to illegalize abortions? I've never heard him come anywhere near saying that. What he has said is this: that the decision of Roe v. Wade was unconstitutional. It is his belief that the Federal government has no place to say what a woman may or may not do. It's not illegalizing abortion, it's like taking Roe v. Wade of the books.

Now, before you get all huffy, this is not a bad thing. This will enable the states to decide for themselves (which is Dr. Paul's entire standpoint). Similar is his position on the drug war. He is not a friend of drugs. He is opposed to the Drug War because of the waste associated with it. He believes that people ought to be able to decide for themselves, and not have the Federal government decide for them.

Isn't that what we all want? I know that's what I do...
:heart: www.ronpaul2008.com :peace:


--------------------
:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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Invisiblewps
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7464876 - 09/28/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, I've had cops come and search my place on the word of a bitter ex-girlfriend.

that is all the probable cause they had.

luckily, they found nothing. twice.

but yeah, you don't have to be stupid to have your rights violated by police. just unlucky.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7464923 - 09/28/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
How is pot an idiot drug zappa please explain? I know alot of people with upstanding job's that smoke regularly.




I have been in construction my entire working life (30+ years). Some people are employees and some people are owners. Some of the employees have made something of their careers, i.e. become foremen and supervisors. Others have stayed grunts. My empirical observation is that every single person who has continued to smoke pot on a regular basis has remained a grunt and every single person who has done more than that has quit or never started smoking dope. This is hundreds of people if not thousands. This is not to say that everyone who doesn't smoke dope will be a boss. It just says that nobody who continues to regularly smoke pot will. In my experience, I think it is a tremendous detriment to living life. Unless your idea of living life is to remain stoned all the time, which choice I believe you should have the right to make without government hassle. I also think that you should be 100% responsible for the shit that ensues. No welfare, no medicare, no nothing, just fuck off and die. Oh well. But to even consider comparing that government hassle to the very real oppression that occurs is moronic. Whiny. Bitchy. Bratty. Buy a clue with some of your dope money.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7465055 - 09/28/07 05:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Actually in the 70's most of the computer upstarts were started by people that smoked pot. Jobs said in an interview that he would go over to peoples houses, share ideas and smoke weed with them. Hell, all of Atari smoked pot. The Homebrew Computer club was full of people who enjoyed marijuana. Hell, a professor I did research for, pretty famous in the field of heterojunction semiconductors, smokes pot every day. So your empirical observations are cute I guess, although not in that penis hardening way, more of in the 'ah so he has to wear a protective helmet and ride the short bus' kind of way


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: TheCow]
    #7465086 - 09/28/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think we need to clarify the meaning of the word "regular". By regular I mean every day. Not one night every other weekend. Besides, the high is a bore.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7465093 - 09/28/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No arguments there, I don't personally do it anymore. However that was because I found it boring, not because it inhibited any sort of 'go get um' attitude or messed up my school work. I know a lot of stoners that do nothing with their lives, just like I know a lot of alcoholics that do nothing with their lives, just like I know a lot of 'x' that do nothing with their lives. I will admit though that weed does lull some people into a sense of complacency with respect to their lives.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: wps]
    #7465180 - 09/28/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

With a man such as Dr. Paul, a little extra thinking is required. I think your deduction is flawed: you say that he wants to illegalize abortions? I've never heard him come anywhere near saying that. What he has said is this: that the decision of Roe v. Wade was unconstitutional. It is his belief that the Federal government has no place to say what a woman may or may not do. It's not illegalizing abortion, it's like taking Roe v. Wade of the books.

Now, before you get all huffy, this is not a bad thing. This will enable the states to decide for themselves (which is Dr. Paul's entire standpoint). Similar is his position on the drug war. He is not a friend of drugs. He is opposed to the Drug War because of the waste associated with it. He believes that people ought to be able to decide for themselves, and not have the Federal government decide for them.




I understand how the argument is made, but unfortunately I live in the south where the issue would undoubtedly be voted to ban abortion. So if this occurs before I'm financially stable enough to move to a better area, I'd be FUCKED if I got pregnant. Even though I'm super careful, the issue might come up. And then I'd either be imprisoned with a child I would resent, probably not be very loving to, and be completely depressed for two decades, or endure a pregnancy that with my current height and weight and psychiatric prescriptions and tobacco habits would physically endanger both me and the child. In fact, with all the things I'm prescribed I'd probably incur the danger of having a seriously life threatening miscarriage. Have you ever seen someone have a miscarriage? My roommates mom had an unwanted pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage and the bathroom was FLOODED with inches of blood. She didn't even know she was pregnant at the time and had no way of knowing what was coming. She was also above 50 and almost died.

I'm not taking that chance. No way.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7466699 - 09/29/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mistaUNGA said:
With a man such as Dr. Paul, a little extra thinking is required. I think your deduction is flawed: you say that he wants to illegalize abortions? I've never heard him come anywhere near saying that. What he has said is this: that the decision of Roe v. Wade was unconstitutional. It is his belief that the Federal government has no place to say what a woman may or may not do. It's not illegalizing abortion, it's like taking Roe v. Wade of the books.

Now, before you get all huffy, this is not a bad thing. This will enable the states to decide for themselves (which is Dr. Paul's entire standpoint). Similar is his position on the drug war. He is not a friend of drugs. He is opposed to the Drug War because of the waste associated with it. He believes that people ought to be able to decide for themselves, and not have the Federal government decide for them.

Isn't that what we all want? I know that's what I do...
:heart: www.ronpaul2008.com :peace:




Well said.

Quote:

kriminalelement said:
I understand how the argument is made, but unfortunately I live in the south where the issue would undoubtedly be voted to ban abortion. So if this occurs before I'm financially stable enough to move to a better area, I'd be FUCKED if I got pregnant.




This is where personal responsibility comes into play.  If you really want to have that mulligan up your sleeve, move somewhere where abortion is legal.  Otherwise, take responsibility for your own actions, and own up to the future artist/thinker/worker/leader you have baking in your oven.  I am a pro-choice libertarian, so I could care less which decision you make, as long as I don't have to pay for you and your little poop-machine because you were careless and got knocked up while you were financially insecure and living in an area that prohibits abortion.  It's not hard to not get pregnant.  If abortion is illegal where you are, and you don't have money to move, don't get pregnant.  Oh, and I know that you're not pregnant, I was simply basing my argument on the hypothetical.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7466776 - 09/29/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My empirical observation is that every single person who has continued to smoke pot on a regular basis has remained a grunt and every single person who has done more than that has quit or never started smoking dope.  This is hundreds of people if not thousands.  This is not to say that everyone who doesn't smoke dope will be a boss.  It just says that nobody who continues to regularly smoke pot will.




Blatantly false conslusion, but hey. :lol:

I, for one, have utilized smoking marijuana to be more aware and responsible. I've managed high all the time. Perhaps your sample size upon which your observation is based is too small. :shrug:

Nor does it make sense to suggest that being an employer or someone who assumes more responsibility career-wise is somehow inherently better than working hourly positions and enjoying the experience of being stoned. :what:

Quote:


  In my experience, I think it is a tremendous detriment to living life.




Yes, in your experience; your experience being applicable only to you, and your idea of what constitutes "living life", a subjective judgement, lies contingent upon "your experience" as well.

Quote:


  Unless your idea of living life is to remain stoned all the time, which choice I believe you should have the right to make without government hassle.  I also think that you should be 100% responsible for the shit that ensues.  No welfare, no medicare, no nothing, just fuck off and die.  Oh well.




Yes, because that is the logical conclusion of smoking pot. :smirk:

Quote:


  But to even consider comparing that government hassle to the very real oppression that occurs is moronic.  Whiny.  Bitchy.  Bratty.  Buy a clue with some of your dope money.




"Government hassle" = unconstitutional. Oppression. :yesnod:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7466823 - 09/29/07 09:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My empirical observation is that every single person who has continued to smoke pot on a regular basis has remained a grunt and every single person who has done more than that has quit or never started smoking dope.  This is hundreds of people if not thousands.  This is not to say that everyone who doesn't smoke dope will be a boss.  It just says that nobody who continues to regularly smoke pot will.




Blatantly false conslusion, but hey. :lol:

I, for one, have utilized smoking marijuana to be more aware and responsible. I've managed high all the time. Perhaps your sample size upon which your observation is based is too small. :shrug:




Managed what?  A MacDonalds.  My sample size is pretty large.  Zero stoners have amounted to anything except stonerhood.  If that's what you want, fine, just don't expect me to pick up your bill.
Quote:



Nor does it make sense to suggest that being an employer or someone who assumes more responsibility career-wise is somehow inherently better than working hourly positions and enjoying the experience of being stoned. :what:




That certainly is a value judgment that one should be allowed to make for themselves.  Unless they demand something like gummint health care.  Then their "value" judgment becomes a problem. 
Quote:



Quote:


  In my experience, I think it is a tremendous detriment to living life.




Yes, in your experience; your experience being applicable only to you, and your idea of what constitutes "living life", a subjective judgement, lies contingent upon "your experience" as well.




I've done both.  Stonerhood is a bore.
Quote:



Quote:


  Unless your idea of living life is to remain stoned all the time, which choice I believe you should have the right to make without government hassle.  I also think that you should be 100% responsible for the shit that ensues.  No welfare, no medicare, no nothing, just fuck off and die.  Oh well.




Yes, because that is the logical conclusion of smoking pot. :smirk:




We all die, follow a point.
Quote:



Quote:


  But to even consider comparing that government hassle to the very real oppression that occurs is moronic.  Whiny.  Bitchy.  Bratty.  Buy a clue with some of your dope money.




"Government hassle" = unconstitutional. Oppression. :yesnod:




Your denial of the deleterious effects of regular pot smoking is rivalled only by your ignorance of constitutional law


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Offlinekotik
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7466983 - 09/29/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your denial of the deleterious effects of regular pot smoking is rivalled only by your ignorance of constitutional law




I think your bitterness has clouded your judgment and rendered you myopic in this issue, along with many others. Whether or not you believe it, there are potheads out there that are more successful, efficient and organized than you.

In your years of experience with construction, nobody that smokes all the time is going anywhere? I could see that, as it slows reaction time and etc. However, for anyone that works with their right-side of the brain, as opposed to left-brain, your entire argument falls apart.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblewps
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kotik]
    #7467066 - 09/29/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

dont let zappa distract you from the real issue

it doesn't matter if pot turns you into a loser or not

the fact is, the government has no moral right to force anyone to abstain from it.

prohibition goes against the pursuit of happiness, freedom of religion, and free enterprise.

not to mention the state's rights that are being trampled. If someone in Cali gets busted growing pot, they cannot 'blame their neighbors', because their neighbors passed a law allowing cultivation. They can only blame the feds for OPPRESSING THEM.

we live in a republic, not a democracy. majority rule with minority rights. Thats why 'popular' laws are not always upheld. If we always allowed popular laws to prevail, the schools in the south would still be segregated.

besides, one wonders how 'popular' the prohibition laws would be if the state didn't cram fraudulent propaganda regarding this issue down everyone's throats via the schools, advertising campaigns, etc...


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kotik]
    #7467164 - 09/29/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Right brain, lol.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: SoY]
    #7467422 - 09/29/07 01:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"if you were careless and got knocked up". yeah right.

Please. I'm on birth control and I use condoms. What if both of them don't work? I live with my boyfriend and GOD am I horny. I'm twenty one and getting randier by the second. So statistically, I'm going to strike out eventually, even though I'm using pretty much everything available except a diaphram, which I couldn't use anyway because of my bc method.

I would never be careless, and many people aren't, but they get knocked the fuck up anyways. The body is MADE to reproduce, and at my age any chance it gets it'll take. I like sex, I hate poop machines, and the fact that nice people like you would end up paying for them would be a major factor in my decision to abort.

Abortion to avoid burdening your nation with taxes: the right choice!

Seriously, that is the right choice.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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OfflineDieck
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7468883 - 09/30/07 12:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hey all, I'm new here.. having skimmed over the posts I'm not sure where the conversation is at right now, but i believe ron paul isn't quite our best option. lets be honest, though he is the only one that publicly represents many of our beliefs, honestly, would he be a good president in our current situation?.. He's basically a candidate that all the stubborn "libertarians" and conspiracy theorists support to announce to the world they believe in truth. I'm leaning more towards a jfk figure because we need to have a new spacerace.. or greenrace.. to get off oil and get the hell out of every ones business and stop ruining our environment.. I'm seeing that potential in obama or biden right now.. possibly mccain if hillary is the dem candidate:grin:. But given many of the current problems, i can handle not having the freedom to smoke and the like in order for someone to get elected who can actually fix things. Anyway, not considering all i just said, this kooky ideologue horribly represents libertarianism to the average person.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I know Ron Paul supports ending the war on drugs... but [Re: Dieck]
    #7468965 - 09/30/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

^^i liked hillarys original platform about health insurance and its costs being too high, but then word has it some of the larger companies paid her off and she no longer speaks about that issue. :crazy2:


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