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Morelman
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Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED*
#7459057 - 09/27/07 07:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Workman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7459747 - 09/27/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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If I may jump in here on the breeding true from spores aspect.
You lose on average 50% of heterozygosity with each strain generated from multispore (analogous to selfing in plants). What this means is, the more sequential generations you do via multispore, the less variability you will see in the later generations until the variability is nearly undetectable. There will come a point that the only variability will be from new random mutations.
OK, so what is this point, or how many generations until you can be confident you have a true breeding strain? With a wild strain you would assume 100% heterozygosity. Previously domesticated strains will obviously have less heterozygosity but since that is unknown it doesn't hurt to be conservative.
Mathematically you can see the reduction in variability with each generation. It drops off quickly and then around generation 5 or 6 the gains in stability drop off dramatically. After generation 7, with heterozygosity less than 1%, the rate of random mutations will outpace any small amount of remaining variabilty loss in later generations.
Wild 100% F1 50% F2 25% F3 12.5% F4 6.25% F5 3.125% F6 1.5625% F7 0.78125%
Generate several strains from the spore print and you should expect to see huge differences between these new strains if the heterozygosity is high. Choose the strain(s) with traits you want (in this case, cap color and size) and take prints. Repeat with these new prints. You can probably feel pretty confident that after doing this 5 or 6 times that the strain is stable, especially if you don't see any new variants in the later generations.
Good luck and I hope this is understandable.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
Edited by Workman (09/28/07 11:31 PM)
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Andrew47
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Workman]
#7459772 - 09/27/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi Workman,
Thank you for the info. I wasn't aware you could tame a strain nearly that fast
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Andrew47]
#7461145 - 09/27/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't forget to make a few master slants with mycelium from your clone. You'll be able to keep the strain alive for years in the refrigerator. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: Workman]
#7462446 - 09/27/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7463201 - 09/28/07 06:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It appears you're working on an isolate of Transkei. Please don't re-name it. It will still be transkei. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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aspore
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7463769 - 09/28/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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So technically this is not creating a substrain, but merely isolating a strain or variation of a mushrooms that holds favorable traits?
So by taking a print from the most favored clone from each generation, this is greatly reducing the possibility of having/growing fruits that do not hold the favored characteristics? This possibility decreases with the more generations you create?
But these prints are still multispore, correct?
To create a new substrain, or hybrid, you would have to have a monospore culture of your favored strain, and grow this out on a medium (rye for example), this would give you a monokaryotic mycelium correct? Then by introducing spores from another favored strain, these would (hopefully) germinate and combine with the mycelium from the first strain, and create dikaryotic mycelium, which would then transform into a unique substrain?
I'm very new at this, and have yet to go to college or anything, but I'm extremely curious about this subject.
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c l i c k m e
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7463800 - 09/28/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Workman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7464684 - 09/28/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can call it whatever you like. It is nice to know the parentage of new strains but its not required or often done. My recommendation is probably more in line with RR and I'd call it Yellow Transkei or Transkei Yellow. Or something more creative like Lemon Transkei. But it is your baby.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
Edited by Workman (09/28/07 03:34 PM)
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7533394 - 10/18/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7533702 - 10/19/07 12:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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looks a little green in the picture
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
#7533861 - 10/19/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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orchidfanatic
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7534455 - 10/19/07 08:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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that is wild .. very cool isolate
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wutang
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: orchidfanatic]
#7669416 - 11/23/07 08:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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where are the fruits?
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: wutang]
#7669603 - 11/23/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm wondering the same thing. I'd like to see how they turned out.
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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drwatson
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7669680 - 11/23/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This thread should be pinned in the FAQ for advanced mycology.
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7669903 - 11/23/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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MYSTIQUE
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7735890 - 12/09/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So if i take orrisa and keep only using the spores from the largest caps over and over after 5 grows I should have larger orrisa? or at least a more constant large orrisa? This makes strain isolation essayer then I thought it was.
-------------------- Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat, DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!
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Entersandman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: MYSTIQUE]
#7736029 - 12/09/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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do the mushrooms have lemon taste?
--------------------
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fahtster
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7738283 - 12/09/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmm.. I'm a skeptic by nature.. I don't really see any pins or knots in that pic. I guess it's just a little hard to think that any healthy myc wouldn't be snow white. I've seen plenty of yellowish to orange myc that had metabolites in the water on the surface, but that straight up looks like a contam. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some yellow myc producing strain... I think that would be absolute bad-assness, but the fact that you can't get it to fruit is also making me skeptical. maybe you isolated a contam that is living right along side the myc. but just stopping the myc from fruiting. either way.. I hope I'm wrong.. I wish you the best of luck! 
fahtster
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Morelman
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: fahtster]
#7739594 - 12/10/07 08:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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ewikk055
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#7746670 - 12/11/07 07:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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where are the updates at thug?
-------------------- whatever you interpret from my posts may/may not be fictional.
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: ewikk055]
#7747412 - 12/11/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (12/12/07 07:34 AM)
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usg543
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i like transkei sunrise.
a cube is a cube though.
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7772601 - 12/18/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7798216 - 12/25/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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hightimesreader
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Bad ass nigga! HTR
-------------------- I'm hunting for The Following ethnos. For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal. HTR A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
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the_chosen_one
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looks like i dropped in just in time. looking forward to this.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7853158 - 01/09/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Hotnuts
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Good grief, are you absolutely positive this is a cube? I've never seen a cube so hard to cultivate personally.
And why all the wood? Use manure or straw for cubes. Maybe that's your problem, if this is even a cube.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/09/08 11:33 AM)
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Hotnuts]
#7854092 - 01/09/08 02:46 PM (16 years, 23 days ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Hotnuts
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Good luck!
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Smushroom
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Re: Update [Re: Hotnuts]
#7901500 - 01/19/08 12:37 PM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Your problem with getting it to fruit is definitely having the fan in your fruiting chamber. That will probably hurt the humidity quit a bit. If you are using a Martha type setup there should be enough gas exchange since it isn't air tight. I doubt that FAE will be a problem either but if you think it is you could always put your cool mist outside the chamber and tube it into it.
Most cubes don't need any type of wood in the substrate. Just stick to pure grains. Also MGMC isn't the best casing layer at all and creates problems for some (others use it just fine) but I would suggest just going with 50/50 or something of the nature. I would rather use 100% verm than MGMC is you can't get coir or don't have the time to mix it.
If your goal is simply to isolate a substrain I would suggest just using half pint cakes. They are way easier to grow and harder to mess up. You won't get nearly the yields you will with grains or bulk but you don't really need to worry about that if all your are looking for is to isolate a trait.
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Smushroom]
#7904419 - 01/20/08 01:37 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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RogerRabbit
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If it truly is an isolate or substrain, you'll want to provide the best substrate for the species, which is grains/manure, not wood. Cubes are not cellulose decomposers. They're dung and straw decomposers. Wood favors molds when growing a dung loving species on the wrong substrate. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Morelman
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (01/22/08 10:07 AM)
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7914107 - 01/22/08 10:41 AM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (01/22/08 10:44 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Here's cubes fruiting from sawdust with just a few wood dowels tossed in. The mycelium will colonize it just fine, but fruiting is very poor. these fruits were only 1/4" to 1/2" tall at maturity. With 75% grain, I'm sure you'll be fine. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Morelman
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#7957440 - 01/30/08 07:42 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8003100 - 02/09/08 11:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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MycoAu
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Re: Update [Re: Morelman]
#8003635 - 02/10/08 03:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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would you mind posting a picture of your humidity chamber? (or whatever you're fruiting in)
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: MycoAu]
#8004548 - 02/10/08 12:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Update [Re: Morelman]
#8004625 - 02/10/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That looks a lot better than the last batch! RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Morelman
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8011488 - 02/12/08 12:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8015740 - 02/12/08 11:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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MycoAu
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Re: Update [Re: Morelman]
#8017989 - 02/13/08 02:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks for the link on the chamber- I am familiar with that grow setup.
And it's not just wishful thinking, IMO. I can see the yellowing in the pic you posted. Beautiful!
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8025411 - 02/15/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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MycoAu
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Re: Update [Re: Morelman]
#8027787 - 02/15/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is 50% that "magical" marker (benchmark) you're trying to reach? Or does it have a more important statistical meaning with relevance to genetics?
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Morelman
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Re: Update *DELETED* [Re: MycoAu]
#8028166 - 02/15/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (02/22/08 10:07 PM)
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Morelman
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8031607 - 02/16/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: Morelman]
#8032010 - 02/16/08 05:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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just for personal satisfaction... where's the sunrise part?? looks like cube for sure. Not getting down on ya, just curious... it's the scientist part of me.
fahtster
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: fahtster]
#8032211 - 02/16/08 06:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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maybe he was on shrooms when he thought of that... I don't get it either. :o
-------------------- coda said: imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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Morelman
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: fahtster]
#8033353 - 02/17/08 12:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: flavoraid]
#8033415 - 02/17/08 01:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: Morelman]
#8033549 - 02/17/08 02:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wasn't trying to be exceedingly offensive :P
It just sounded dumb at the time. It's not exactly creative but I don't think it was intended to be.
K, I'm going to shut up now.
-------------------- coda said: imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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Morelman
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8035156 - 02/17/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (03/03/08 09:57 PM)
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: Morelman]
#8038673 - 02/18/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice work!
If you ever decide to give out some prints I'd gladly take one.;)
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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Iolaa
iolaa, not lolaa
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 335
Loc: Humco
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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yeah, fer real!
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Iolaa]
#8042063 - 02/19/08 09:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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MycoAu
5thKingdomCome


Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: Morelman]
#8044220 - 02/19/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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12x12 (drooling)
Wish I could say the same. currently, the next few $K are going to home repair. I just wished that included the construction of a similar sized fruiting area. Oh well. Love this thread and glad to see you're having success (moderate). At least it's in the right direction! That particular phenotype is handsome to say the least. Looking forward to the next round (of photos especially).
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fiasco
Altered



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 303
Loc: sc/nyc
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: MycoAu]
#8068997 - 02/25/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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nice the yellow cap looks good
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Fiasco's Magic Quesdilla ///All posts are merely the result of a delusional mind.\\\
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MycoAu
5thKingdomCome


Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise [Re: fiasco]
#8069036 - 02/25/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Have taken any more pictures or started anything new for this project?
(sorry, just interested in the progress and keeping this thread bumped!)
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: MycoAu]
#8070890 - 02/25/08 11:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8096029 - 03/03/08 01:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8232728 - 04/03/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (04/03/08 09:47 AM)
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Andrew47
Servant of allLife



Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 432
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Question for RR - Creating New Substrain [Re: Morelman]
#8232814 - 04/03/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cool, keep us updated Morelman
-------------------- It's easy! Send your clean prints to www.fsrcanada.com
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8262471 - 04/09/08 11:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (04/18/08 11:17 PM)
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8309876 - 04/21/08 08:26 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (06/26/08 06:59 AM)
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8565645 - 06/26/08 07:00 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
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Morelman
LC Master



Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2,625
Loc: Hiding under an Elm Tree
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Re: Transkei - Sunrise *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
#8569972 - 06/27/08 05:51 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MorelmanReason for deletion: Never again...
Edited by Morelman (05/08/17 11:33 PM)
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