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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Kickle]
#7471687 - 09/30/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I keep those experiences to myself. No need to make a general truth out of it. I try to take to account what other less paranormal explanations it might have and keep an open mind about it in any direction. This doesn't mean I can't enjoy those moments.  What is entirely unacceptable is to try and turn them into an universal truth. Just look at what religion does.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7471691 - 09/30/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have to agree with you. There should be a clear line drawn between facts and imagination/conjecture. Not that the imagination side of the line isn’t beneficial, but it loses its purpose if you believe it to be fact... Imagination only becomes delusions when you believe it to be fact.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: DimensionX]
#7471712 - 09/30/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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What if you kind of know its true, but you dont why, and theres no evidence that you can put your finger on, but you just kind of know. Havent you ever felt that before?
I must admit that this quote is very entertaining for me. I also admit that I have felt this way. It was when I was a teen and hadn't learned much about logical thought. I guess I was just a product of modern education.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: What is truly scary is seeing someone parade illogic and non-logic as rational thought.
Label it as you wish. It is fair, since I find it scary to see other posters parading evidence and non-evidence as equal, commiting the ever-loathsome categorical mistake.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Icelander]
#7471723 - 09/30/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Or maybe you were just a human being and not a computer. (in response it Icelander )
Edited by DimensionX (09/30/07 08:15 PM)
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Icelander]
#7471726 - 09/30/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: What if you kind of know its true, but you dont why, and theres no evidence that you can put your finger on, but you just kind of know. Havent you ever felt that before?
I must admit that this quote is very entertaining for me. I also admit that I have felt this way. It was when I was a teen and hadn't learned much about logical thought. I guess I was just a product of modern education.
Ironically, much scientific progress is made this way. On a hunch.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I don't really believe that. Logic always is part of the equation in scientific progress. The hunch is also of value but must be verified using real evidence.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Icelander]
#7471771 - 09/30/07 08:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah logic is part of the equation, so is imagination and creativity.
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Icelander]
#7471783 - 09/30/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, I'm simply referring to the hunch, which does lead to seeking evidence. The hunch is the motivation which is a part of the equation, just as logic is. Value is assigned to both, but I'd wager that depending on who you ask, they don't weigh equally
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: DimensionX]
#7471788 - 09/30/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Absolutely, In fact logic does it's best work in support of imagination.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Ironically, much scientific progress is made this way. On a hunch.
Ironically, almost all of Vegas was built on failed hunches. This year alone there are three 500 million plus hotel/casinos being built because of people's erroneous feelings.
Ironically, when I worked for Apple and Cisco, I used actual engineering and logic to help bring you guys some amazing stuff, such as the early Macs and high-speed internet routers). If only I knew how to dream, to dream...
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DimensionX
King of Birds


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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: Icelander]
#7471797 - 09/30/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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or does imagination do its best work in support of logic
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Ironically, much scientific progress is made this way. On a hunch.
Ironically, almost all of Vegas was built on failed hunches. This year alone there are three 500 million plus hotel/casinos being built because of people's erroneous feelings.
Ironically, when I worked for Apple and Cisco, I used actual engineering and logic to help bring you guys some amazing stuff, such as the early Macs and high-speed internet routers). If only I knew how to dream, to dream...
Both of these paragraphs are Strawmen. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
People's ignorant failed hunches in the face of the obvious probability of losing have nothing to do with successful hunches followed up by logic and evidence
Your use of logic at Apple (with no mention of a hunch) has nothing to do with hunches.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Strawmen? I used the word 'hunch' correctly. A hunch is a feeling as to an outcome. Vegas proves that there is no merit to this sort of feeling that you are positing as something worthwhile.
I have invented many things. No hunchbacking was necessary. One has a clear goal of a desired end-product, then asks what steps are necessary to get there and tackles each in order.
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DimensionX
King of Birds


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Theres a reason why people do the thinking and machines do the number crunching. Because people are able to make intuitive leaps.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Telepathy - The Final Word [Re: DimensionX]
#7471953 - 09/30/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like McKenna believing he could manifest objects by taking DMT and making sounds.
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Strawmen? I used the word 'hunch' correctly. A hunch is a feeling as to an outcome. Vegas proves that there is no merit to this sort of feeling that you are positing as something worthwhile.
I have invented many things. No hunchbacking was necessary. One has a clear goal of a desired end-product, then asks what steps are necessary to get there and tackles each in order.
I commend you on your inventions. I agree about the clear goal of a desired end-product. But a hunch can still fit in the process of getting to the end-product, and has many times been the path to finding the means to the end-product. The Vegas example disproves nothing. It only proves that people who blow their money, knowing the high probability of losing, are either morons or just have extra money and want to have fun.
This disproving and proving fallacy was explained earlier:
Quote:
jonathanseagull said: Both have their staunch belief, one supported without evidence, and one supported with non-evidence, if you can grasp the difference.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
Edited by jonathanseagull (09/30/07 09:03 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Let me get this straight: a hunch that proves successful is authentic and a hunch that proves unsuccessful is fake - is that it?
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
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Loc: Australia
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I think you could wright a book about how the intuitive mind works. So its hard to talk about in a forum. But have you ever had an epiphany, that is the perfect example of an intuitive leap and how powerful they are. Most discoveries come from these leaps, not from number crunching . Number crunching has no meaning unless its inspired by a creative idea.
Edited by DimensionX (09/30/07 09:18 PM)
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Let me get this straight: a hunch that proves successful is authentic and a hunch that proves unsuccessful is fake - is that it?
For a closed-minded reductionist, possibly. For anyone who can read with comprehension, they will realize the missing element in your quote is the desired outcome and motivation for seeking the outcome, without the odds against them probability-wise. Both hunches are hunches, although one is moronic. I'd might even call one of them wishful thinking. One might call both of them wishful thinking, but one leads to results.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
Edited by jonathanseagull (09/30/07 09:23 PM)
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