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Invisibletony8404
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Registered: 06/14/05
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rinsing rye berries ....
    #7455152 - 09/26/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I feel this needs to be looked into or explained maybe... I know the first rinse with Rye is very important to remove all the junk we do not want. but should there be any other rinses after the first initial rinse????

After you have rinsed the rye a few times the water becomes clear instead of yellowish... What about after soaking or boil/simmering? This last rye batch did not work for me, i let the rye soak in 50/50 water/coffee for 48 hours. i know 48 is kinda overkill but i noticed the water looked dirty, maybe it was the coffee cause at first the water was really dark couldnt see anything but after 48 hours it cleared up a bit and to me it looked similar to the first rinsing before the water becomes clear...

i know in rr's rye tek he just boils after the soak and to me it makes sense.. but after i got done boiling for ten minutes and strained the rye it seemed slimmy. not sure if it was starch, the coffee, endospores or what not but i felt i should rinse it again but i didnt... i thought that if i was to rinse the rye again after the boil i may loose whatever the soaking/boil in coffee water would be taken out of the rye from the rinsing... would this be true?

I had read last night in some posts that some people after the soaking or boil actually rinse the grain with up to 6 gallons of water... would rinsing the rye berries have any effect or remove anything benificial that the coffee added to the rye berries when soaked/boil?


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: tony8404]
    #7455344 - 09/26/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It takes me about five or six hot-water rinses before my rye is clean enough to soak. My process is...

Get tap-water running to it's hottest point, fill up the stockpot (with rye inside) almost full with the hot water. Stir it up with a big spoon for a minute or so, and drain. I repeat this process like I said, five or six times, until stirring the grains does not make the water cloudy anymore.

At that point I add my tablespoon or so of powdered garden gypsum and a half cup of regular strength coffee give it one final good stir for several minutes and then let it sit for 12-24 hours. During that soak time, however, whenever I happen by it, I stir it up good again to ensure that all grains are getting equal amounts of the gypsum and coffee dilution in them.

(side note, your wetness on the grains could have been because of the coffee residue (from using so much) making the grains tacky and therefore able to resist it steaming away) *just a thought*

---
At the end of the soak period I turn the burner on medium high and bring the whole pot up to a very slow boil, stirring very frequently now to make sure the grains on the very bottom aren't getting too much heat from directly contacting the bottom of the pot.

As soon as the water starts to boil you'll notice it'll start to turn into almost a diluted milk-chocolate sauce color and consistency, which is fine, just keep stirring as often as you can for about ten minutes. Remember it's a low-rolling boil, not a full-on high-heat boil, just enough to keep them at 212(F) for a while.

Typically, because I generally only soak for about 12-16 hours, I let my boil go for about 15 minutes at the lowest temp that will keep it simmering as such. Any longer than that, or if you're too aggressive while stirring and you'll have a lot of popped grains/mush in your batch.

----
After the timer goes off and you're ready to drain, have several (from the dollar store) cheap strainers set up in your sink. Pour off as much of the soak water as you can before spilling the grains and then pour the grains into the strainers.

Either by "tossing" or using a spoon, fluff the grains in the strainers as much as you can until you no longer see steam rising off them. This, to me, is the most critical step because it's the most time sensitive. The more steam that rises off your grains the drier your grains will be when it's time to load them. The steam will only escape off the grains when there is enough of the grain exposed to the dry, colder air.

Just letting them sit in the strainer will not get them dry enough to be used consistently. Bottom line. When you're working with up to four strainers at once it's a real P.I.T.A. (pain in the ass, as in pita bread is a real p.i.t.a. to make by hand, lol) but it is what it is.

About half hour or so later, they'll be still slightly warm to the touch but dry enough that if you placed some on a piece of tissue paper they wouldn't leave any wet marks. Then you load them up into your jars, according to how'll they'll be used. 2/3rd full if they're going to be receiving more inoculated rye from a colonized grain master jar or 3/4 full if they're going to be used as grain masters for colonizing substrate or additional rye jars in the future. You need that extra space to be able to agitate and shake them.

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When pressure cooking them you'll want to make sure that you both have enough water in the pressure cooker to last the entire cycle and that they'll be completely out of the water while being pressure cooked.

To do that I take several rings from other unused jars I've collected from here and there and use them to form a complete layer on the bottom of the pressure cooker. I then lay in the first trivet/spacer on top of that and place the jars on top of that. It will give me about a 3" depth for the water while ensuring the entire jar never touches the water in the process. If your pressure cooker didn't come with a spacer for multi-layered canning, you can just make two layers out of additional rings. Use a large piece of alluminum foil, foldeded over several times, with (lots) holes poked through it to create a "spacer" of sorts to go on top of the second layer of jar lids to reduce the splashing of the boiling water.

Lastly, and most obviously, you need to place alluminum foil over the tops of the jars to prevent the condensation "rain" from getting the top of your tyvek/synthetic filter disk wet during sterilization.

Take the weight or toggle off the pressure cooker and turn it on high, when steam is readily escaping from the top of the unit, place the weight on or switch the toggle and allow pressure to build. When the pressure reaches 15psi the weight will jiggle or the toggle will blow, whichever, at this point start your 90 minute timer and reduce the heat every so slightly. If, after several seconds/moments the weight jiggles again, reduce the heat a little more.

Repeat that process through the whole cycle or until you find that sweet-spot point at which it's the hottest possible temperature the unit can stand without causing the weight to jiggle off again. Finding this spot gives you the best possible sterilization of your jars because it prevents any further loss of heat or steam inside the sterilizing steam bath happening within the pressure cooker.


---
(pants a little)
whoa, that just totally wasted my entire lunch hour, lol...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisibletony8404
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Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: mycocurious]
    #7455454 - 09/26/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

wow Mycocurious, that was great ... that is everything i needed to know ... for the love of god i see what my problem was the other night when i lost my jars of rye due to my pc... i had the rocker rocking the whole time so i think i cooked the jars cause the rye looked as if it were brown rice cooked... man i cannot wait to start this over again tonight... though one thing bothers me still... rr's tek he says he uses 50%water and 50% coffee.. he uses in the tek 1 or 2 gallons of water and the same for coffee but it is light brewed to where it looks like tea... how come you only use a half cup of regular coffee? does the rye get anything out of that little amount? cause i was thinking if i make the coffee light as tea color i would use a gallon then but if i make regular strength coffee i would add 1 cup coffee to 1 gallon of water.. just wondering which is beneficial... also, you do not rinse your rye after the boil right?


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
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Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: tony8404]
    #7455594 - 09/26/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

when rr's talking about 50% coffee, he's talking about a coffee dilution that is already mostly water anyways.

If you'd like, take a gallon of water and add regular strength coffee to the water and stir until the water has a light brown tinge to it but is otherwise crystal clear.

*THAT* is what he means when he says "cofee solution" or "diluted coffee" or when he mentions it should look more like a "weak coffee tea". I over simplify that by only adding about a cup full of regular strength coffee to my gallon or so of soak water, although I might be on the "light side" of how strong that coffee dilution could be. Either way it's just there to add the most trivial amount of liquid nutrients for the grains to absorb, under-doing it or omitting it altogether are perfectly fine.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: mycocurious]
    #7455602 - 09/26/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i have to wholeheartedly agree with the usage of 'trival' in defining dilute liquid coffee in grains.


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: mycocurious]
    #7455617 - 09/26/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

...and to beat a dead horse utterly and completely...

When you timer goes off for the pressure cooker, turn the heat off but don't move it off the burner. Allow it cool to room temperature as slowly as possible, preferably overnight but if you start your project early in the morning at least allow 12 hours to pass before cracking the seal on the pressure cooker.

---
Take the jars out, dry them off, leave the foil on. Move them to your prepped sterilized lab area and put them inside your glove box or within your laminar flow, however you do it. And then, just before your ready to start, after you've gotten everything else prepped and ready... take off the foil off all of the jars, and rub them down thoroughly with alcohol wipes (or paper-towels dipped in rubbing alcohol) and then rub your gloved hands off thoroughly again with the rubbing alcohol.

There you go, one dead horse, fully tenderized...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: tony8404]
    #7455624 - 09/26/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tony8404 said:...also, you do not rinse your rye after the boil right?




no, you don't rinse them after the boil, whatever starches that remain on them from the boil are going to work great as booster, liquid nutrients to start the mycelium growing.

also, and more importantly, if you rinse them off after the boil you'll cause them to cool down will means they'll let off less steam and won't dry as thoroughly...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisibletony8404
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Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 1,323
Re: rinsing rye berries .... [Re: mycocurious]
    #7455756 - 09/26/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

wow thanks mycocurious.. you nailed it for me... i am totally educated now for rye :O) i thought i was missing something on the coffee thing.. lol.. it was so simple... god i totally read into that the wrong way..... i am gonna print this thread of right now before it gets lost... thanks mycocurious.


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