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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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use and abuse of psychedelics
    #7453394 - 09/25/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Something I've learned about psychedelics is that the line between "use" and "abuse" is very hard to draw.

Appropriate use is, among the psychedelic community, characterized as occasional indulgence in order to explore one's own psyche, whether it be through intensified experience of immediate reality or the deconstruction of one's own ego in order to rebuild it in a constructive and beneficial fashion.

Abuse is characterized by a need to escape one's own life or a need to be accepted among peers (who also use psychedelics). This forum has seen several examples of abuse, as it necessarily will.

Though general guidelines exist, they are shaky. The prevailing wisdom is that tripping once a month at most is the wisest course, though there are many who legitimately explore psychedelics on a much more frequent basis without deleterious effects. Examples include Timothy Leary (who apparently took acid every weekend), Aldous Huxley, and many others on this very forum. Grizzycappy and Yageman come immediately to mind as members of the Shroomery who have dipped heavily into psychedelic use without compromising their personal lives. Though both users have made posts that are arguably controversial, and that I personally disagree strongly with, I cannot argue with the sheer level of experience that they exhibit and the psychedelic wisdom that they exude with every post. My brother once consumed an ounce of high-potency cubensis over the course of three days; though he struggled with HPPD for a time, it is now wearing off and he seems to have embraced a more responsible perspective of psychedelic use without quitting entirely. I can't imagine tripping on the basis that he did (eating more when the trip is coming down). I consider him fundamentally a legitimate user of psychedelics who has had his brush with abuse and come away from it with an enlightened perspective.

I myself have gone through my heaviest period of psychedelic use (as far as I have known so far). For a month or so while I was still living in San Francisco, I would trip on LSD or mushrooms (usually LSD, my ultimate drug of choice) every weekend. Since then I have eased off, reducing the frequency of my trips, partially as a consequence of two rather rough mushroom trips, but also due to school and a general realization that useful psychedelic trips cannot be undertaken so frequently without a loss of meaning and perspective. My last trips were on acid, a little over a week ago, and two weeks before that on mushrooms (the second of the two aforementioned tough trips).

It is clear that frequency of use (to a certain point) is an unclear indicator of abuse. What do you consider "abuse" from an abstract perspective? When does the quest to escape rationalizations and egocentricity become a quest to escape reality and insecurity? What are your experiences with abuse (in yourself and in others)?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (09/25/07 08:59 PM)


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Invisiblewolfsblood
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Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 44
Loc: PNW
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7454138 - 09/26/07 12:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I personally was introduced to mushrooms through casual use (perhaps you would categorize it as abuse) and well I did it more and the people I did it with, we were all plunged into inner thought.

I am thankful that I tried mushrooms when I did as a teen because I probably would have been scared to try them if some one told me, "This is a mind expanding, ego destroying experience." Instead I was told, "This is so FUN you have to try it." and thanks to having tried it, I am truly a better person and learned to respect the sacred use of mushrooms in personal growth.

So don't be agitated by those that are experimenting with it, if hallucinogens are part of their life path they will stick with it and learn that its not just a drug like alcohol, heroin, etc..

Plus, those that use it to simply escape will soon learn that psychedelics certainly aren't the place to turn, when trying to escape themselves, because they will shove their personality back in their face with all of its flaws.

So for the experimenters, They will find their way, Have faith!


--------------------
"On the Mountain of Madness, I came to my senses, I'd been Hypnotised by people's sadness, that slowly condenses, In their mission to Dramatise their lives. " - Waterclime


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Invisiblebotha
Male

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 461
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: wolfsblood]
    #7454220 - 09/26/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wolfsblood said:I probably would have been scared to try them if some one told me, "This is a mind expanding, ego destroying experience." Instead I was told, "This is so FUN you have to try it." and thanks to having tried it, I am truly a better person and learned to respect the sacred use of mushrooms in personal growth.




ok, same here, first time i ate shrooms because my friends were telling how FUN it will be. But now i know, what the shrooms really are.. so whenever i still eat them just for the fun, just to obtain those vizuals and that drunkness, i call it abusing.

But if i really desire that self analysis period, then i think its okay. When i really need to use it.. but i dont right now. Tho i still go hunting shrooms, to me hunting and aftermatch = 80% of the trip.. while shroom trip itself is not so important. ffs.. its not even comfortable :laugh:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7454466 - 09/26/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think the issue of compromising the personal life is moot.

Some lives are very simple. simple job (or none) simple set of duties... etc. little ambition.
with a lot of psychedelic use, every weekend and some nights, you can drag through this with no disruption.

Some lives are more complex. If you want to do regular psychedelic while holding difficult jobs (maybe more than one) studying, maybe also doing art work, etc. and raising a family or more, then you will need to back off on the dosage, or crash and burn.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBoots
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Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7454657 - 09/26/07 07:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This saves me from making a new thread:

I'm disgusted by the way a majority of my friends view drugs; marijuana, salvia, and 'shrooms in particular. To them, it's all about getting high, ripped, stoned, tripping, etc. I don't think they truly appreciate the power of psychedelics and the things they can teach us.


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OfflinePootmaster
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Boots]
    #7455129 - 09/26/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm... those are interesting points. I don't think using psychedelics for 'fun' is abusing though, because when it comes down to it, we all just want to have a good time, right? There are so many different reasons why people use psychedelics and most (if not all) are very valid points. Not -everyone- wants to study they're psyche 'in depth,' some people just want to trip and enjoy being "Out There." Is there anything wrong with that? They're called 'recreational drugs' for a reason...


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Offlinegmuralid
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Pootmaster]
    #7455176 - 09/26/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Apparently I cant give you another rating somehow, but I really must say I really appreciate your thoughts and questions Tchan. Quite thought provoking, thank you.

I think the questions of use and abuse are within yourself. Know what I mean? Having had abused things before, and still being a smoker, I think your body and mind def. make it known what is "right/wrong" for you.


--------------------
Wilderness. It defines me.


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Pootmaster]
    #7455187 - 09/26/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

abuse is going weeee im taking drugs im a drug addict and when its not like that its generally not abuse. things that fall under abuse

*escaping reality(side note- which cant really be done,but you can pretend)
*getting fucked up to be fucked up tho that falls under escaping reality
*taking drugs "to see shit"
*using drugs to date rape
theres tons of ways to abuse drugs
*using it to impair ones self

yeah list goes on
im sure yage man will come to put is 2 cents in to.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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InvisibleAlion
Male


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 462
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: thedudenj]
    #7455207 - 09/26/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Abuse can lead to understanding


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Alion]
    #7455258 - 09/26/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

or repeated use with out any understanding other then wow i love getting fucked up on drugs like heroin addicts. H bomb has good to it too specially when it comes to entering trance and projection. but its overlooked by people who get high.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineBoots
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Registered: 07/25/07
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: thedudenj]
    #7455312 - 09/26/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
*taking drugs "to see shit"




This is my friend's reasons for wanting to try LSD and 'shrooms.


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Boots]
    #7455525 - 09/26/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Thats the first reason I ever tried psychedelics, I really don't see a problem with it, I think thats prolly why most ppl first try em.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #7455615 - 09/26/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i used drugs for medicine...


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineJair
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Registered: 06/08/07
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #7455645 - 09/26/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am not yet experienced enough to give an accurate answer to this question, but I will do my best.

I have tried mushrooms before and I had done my research beforehand. I am not one to drink or take things to "Get fucked up". I love to learn, broaden my horizens, and see "insead my head". I knew what was coming when I first tried mushrooms. What I experienced was unlike anything I can describe, it was amazing. Pure bliss. It was not, however, something I would necessarily call "fun".

Fun is making jokes with friends, playing music, painting a picture, watching movies or TV shows with ones you love, etc (all in my opinion of course). A pyschedelic awakening is not something I would categorize with this other stuff.

Some examples of what I would consider abuse:
1) Going in with a mindset similar to, "I need to take a break from life", or "I need to get away".

2) Taking pyschedelics just because your friends are, and you either 1. dont wanna be left out, or 2. because you want to be accepted.

3) Taking pyschedelics because you are bored or lonely.

4) Taking them because you have them, or can easily get them.

There are plenty of ways that would not be considered abuse and they all have something to do with learning, healing, or "seeing" (not to be confused with seeing "colors and rainbows" or "weird visuals"). I don't think that one can define abuse on how often the drug is taken necessarily, although it could be an indicator.


--------------------


Edited by Jair (09/26/07 12:46 PM)


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Invisiblebotha
Male

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 461
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Pootmaster]
    #7455660 - 09/26/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pootmaster said:
Hmm... those are interesting points. I don't think using psychedelics for 'fun' is abusing though, because when it comes down to it, we all just want to have a good time, right? There are so many different reasons why people use psychedelics and most (if not all) are very valid points. Not -everyone- wants to study they're psyche 'in depth,' some people just want to trip and enjoy being "Out There." Is there anything wrong with that? They're called 'recreational drugs' for a reason...




never tought about it like that. seriously. all my life i've been taught that life is about working and getting children and then slowly gettin old and dieing


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Offlinehightimesreader
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7455888 - 09/26/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
My brother once consumed an ounce of high-potency cubensis over the course of three days.





My dealer ate an 0z of mushies in college within a 3 day period and at the end of the week, he had 3 seizures in the same bankwit in the same day. Normal?


--------------------
I'm hunting for The Following ethnos.
For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal.
HTR

A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
:commonsense:


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7455926 - 09/26/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The prevailing wisdom is that tripping once a month at most is the wisest course, though there are many who legitimately explore psychedelics on a much more frequent basis without deleterious effects. Examples include Timothy Leary (who apparently took acid every weekend), Aldous Huxley,





it could be argued that that there were deleterious effects. timothy leary for example, was fired from his job, went to jail and also became a drug obsessed lunatic making insane predictions like "in 10 years we will have an lsd using and pot smoking supreme court" not to mention his theories on electrode brain stimulation by 1980 which would be opposed by the "lsd orthodox".

his children and ex-wife or both killed themselves, which doesn't reflect well on his performance as a husband and father and if you read his daughter's writings in "high priest" some of it is frankly disturbing. i personally do not think he should have been using drugs while around his kids.


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Offlinehightimesreader
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Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: Jair]
    #7455932 - 09/26/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, these, are MY thoughts but I respect others feelings on this matter too.

Abuse, somthing I feel I deal with after heavyer partying the next couple days after, is doing something becuase you NEED to do it to feel normal, "fine", or to function. A stoner, who says, "damn I REALLY want to smoke" is wanting a smoke, where as a stoner saying "Damn i REALLY want to smoke" and gets angry becuase they didnt have weed and want to smoke bad, thats addictive personality.

On the hand of psyhedelics, I think ARE a FUN activity for you to enjoy with your freinds. I do not beleive that recreational use is as wasteful as you may think. A person may take them to see visuals, or have a different kind of high, but, you can't deny the effect that mushrooms will have none the less. They may go in playing hop scotch, but they come out with a black eye from the bully when they realize how powerful they really are. I personally LOVE mushrooms and might have the chance to try acid for the first time soon. I think that maximum of 2 times a month is acceptable. I think that it would be better to have ONE trip a month but if I had the chance, I would take the journey 2 times. I will be having some pan cyans soon to experiment with soon. :laugh:

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make, is if psychedelics are taking over most of your money savings/time, then abuse might be the answer. If you can handle tripping/partying every weekend and maintianing a social/family/bisiness life then I say, good for you!

:minigun: JUST DON"T BURN OUT!:commonsense:

HTR


--------------------
I'm hunting for The Following ethnos.
For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal.
HTR

A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
:commonsense:


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: use and abuse of psychedelics [Re: hightimesreader]
    #7456119 - 09/26/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I would say use and abuse our terms that apply more to the intentions a person has before they ingest psychedelics than they do to the experiences themselves. Therefore, someone with an allegedly abusive reason for indulging may well come away from the experience with life changing revelations.

Down to the definitions-

Abuse, for me, means using psychedelics in a harmful way. Tripping on a moderate dose 10 times a year to get FUXXOREDLOL is probably healthier than taking 10,000ug of LSD every week for the purposes of exploring the soul. Then again, quantity is far from the only factor in judging this, since many people with the right intentions, inner strength and mind set can dose highly and frequently with positive consequences.

Abuse constitutes tripping in inappropriate circumstances, tripping too often to really gain much from each experience, and taking doses one simply isn't prepared for. However, these things are all personally defined. The predominant factor is harm- if someone is using psychedelics in a way excessively likely to harm themself, it is abuse.

Regardless of the reasons one enters the psychedelic experience, it is whether or not the way in which one does so is harmful to oneself that defines whether the activity is "abusive". Ultimately, you have to decide for yourself whether what you are doing is intelligent, enlightening and beneficial or simply an escapism. Being able to play what Leary called "social games" is not a sure sign that your use of psychedelics is not dangerous.

Personally, I started out using psychedelics in a fairly analytical sense, to try and reveal my subconscious and find a solution to an ongoing sleeping problem. As I got deeper, I realised the spiritual ramifications of these substances that can turn your eyes and ears to the pure energy of the universe that permeates everything. Even believing this, however, my use of psychedelics could easily become abusive without self discipline. They key is knowing what you are capable of and simply listening to your inner self- your mind knows when you are damaging it, and it will try to tell you. ALl you have to do is listen.

High doses frequently, regardless of your mental strength, are not a particularly good idea, as Syd Barrett (bless the man) found out the hard way. I'd say tripping more than once a month, while not necessarily harmful, ends up yielding little more than visuals and bizarre thoughts. Psychedelics clear the cobwebs out of your mind. If they don't build up in the first place, you are wasting your time mopping a clean floor and if you aren't' careful you'll wear away the marble.

These substances are what you make of them. LSD is either a telescope for the mind, to turn you on to the true nature of your self and the oneness of all things, or simply a way to see visuals and feel energetic. Mushrooms are either the flesh of God, or a way to induce confusion and giggling. Make psychedelics something positive for you, and you are not abusing them.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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