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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Seuss]
    #7456459 - 09/26/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

There is no proof that ties these things to Iran's gov't, at least no proof to anyone who isn't a military commander or Bush aid.




Spoken by somebody that assumes Iran's government is a single entity, such as western governments, rather than a conglomeration of various "groups" each with their own agenda.




Very well... So what is the proof?

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7456589 - 09/26/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 06:32 PM)

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7456671 - 09/26/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
This accusation (of Iran arming insurgents in Iraq) is being made around the clock by the neo-cons in the Bush administration & its controlled mouthpieces (right-wing talk radio & Fox News, primarily)...



That's exactly my point, and why I said it's as valid as the claim that it's known where Hussein's weapons are - which by the way was pushed with even more ferver than this Iranian weapons claim.


Quote:


but what nobody seems to be asking is: So what if they are? I don't know if they (Iran) are (arming Iraqi insurgents), & I also don't care. The neo-con fascists beating the drums for war against Iran make that accusation all the time, but never bother elaborating upon how it's relevant. They must just assume all they have to do is state the accusation over and over again and count on the fact that their viewers/listeners have been programmed to believe this is a justified reason to conduct U.S. military aggression against Iran (& they're probably right).

The people of Iraq have every right under the sun to take up arms & struggle against the foreign occupation of their homeland. If another entity (in this case, Iran) offers them help in doing this, & the Iraqi insurgents voluntarily accept their assistance, then I don't know where the problem in this is. Did not the U.S. colonialists accept French military aid in throwing out what they saw as an occupying army where they lived? They only way this accusation (even if it can be proven true) could logically angry U.S. citizens is if they believed Iraq is a U.S. colony. Hmmm...




I agree.

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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7460839 - 09/27/07 03:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

That's exactly my point, and why I said it's as valid as the claim that it's known where Hussein's weapons are - which by the way was pushed with even more ferver than this Iranian weapons claim.




i know a guy in iraq who says there definitely were wmd's in iraq. he says some were moved out of the country and some were hidden very well, and that when some of them were found it wasn't reported much at all because it was a few years too late. he's pretty anti-war btw and thinks the iraq war will never be won because it's a 2000 year old religious war going on over there. it's pretty disheartening to hear him say the only way iraq ever has a chance for democracy is if everyone over eight years old was executed. :shrug:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: kotik]
    #7460956 - 09/27/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/2007/09/ahmadinejad-at-columbia-university-full.html

some good quotes in here... far cries from the "OMFG he doesnt believe in homos, wtf!" hysteria being pushed by the media.

Quote:

Realities of the world are not limited to physical realities. And the material is just a shadow of supreme realities, and physical creation is just one of the stories of the creation of the world. Human being is just an example of the creation that is a combination of the material and the spirit.
And another important point is the relationship of science and purity of spirit, life, behavior and ethics of the human being. In the teachings of the divine prophet, one reality shall always be attached to science. The reality of purity of spirit and good behavior, knowledge and wisdom is pure and clear reality. It is -- science is a light. It is a discovery of reality, and only a pure scholar and researcher, free from wrong ideologies, superstitions, selfishness and material trappings, can discover the reality.




umm.. wow!? I can't imagine bush being able to read something like that, let alone speak or even comprehend it.





I can't believe either you or anyone else finds this gibberish to be clever or revelatory. His "right" ideology is the "divine" teachings of Mohammed. All others are wrong. Talk about monkeys jumping through hoops....


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7461038 - 09/27/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Secularism, lynching fags....It doesn't matter, He hates Bush so he must be a super genius great guy!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7461133 - 09/27/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

A little more follow up on the homo issue:

Quote:

An Iranian-American journalist asked him to clarify his extraordinary claim on Monday that there were no gay people in Iran, pointing out, "I know a few myself."

"Seriously? I don't know any," the president replied, in apparent surprise. "Give me some addresses so we're able to go to visit them and learn about them."

Given that sodomy is a crime punishable by death in Iran, it was a particular chilling offer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/julianborger/story/0,,2177545,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12





There are a couple of people here who are just so utterly at odds with reality you have to wonder how they can get out of bed and tie their own shoes.


--------------------

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Offlinekotik
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7461302 - 09/27/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"Give me some addresses so we're able to go to visit them and learn about them."




:lol:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlineboomer q
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #7464255 - 09/28/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i understand that you dont like the author of that articles attitude, but come on:


I had this epiphany reading reviews of the newest exhibition at the Boston Center for the Arts. Entitled “Work Number 227: The Lights Going On and Off,” artist Martin Creed’s (for lack of a better term) “work” consists entirely of an empty gallery where the overhead lighting is turned on and off at five-second intervals.

Who is dumb enough to pay good money for that? Why smart people, of course.


>>Oh my god you mean to say that someone produced a work of art that you don't like?


i think the point is that theres art and theres "art" ... do you honestly think that lights going on and off every 5 seconds should be put in the same category as the mona lisa? didnt someone sell a blank canvas as "art" for alot of money once? theres a big difference between art that people dont like, and a blank canvas, or a very slow strobe light.....would you pay money for an "artistic" blank canvas? would you pay to enter a room just because the lights go on and off? regular people like to see that art has thought and purpose and hard work behind it....i understand that your trying to give MIT a fair shake, but they sure do like some weird and seemingly pointless things, science aside


--------------------
I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons

Edited by boomer q (09/28/07 12:58 PM)

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7469074 - 09/30/07 03:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Zap talks about reality? Ironic, to say the least. Reality for you is being habitually wrong and peppering your posts with taunts minus wit.

And when it comes to news, your source and research is as bad as your insults.
Thanks for the link to the suggestively negative, melodramatic reporter, with the mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words. Great find, detective, it's really important to hear the facts such as which offers were "chilling," and which statement was the "most spookily of all."

I also like how the article, from title to conclusion, doesn't actually have anything to do with the UN conference at all, but conjectures that while Ahmadinejad isn't a real dictator or tyrant, he "seems to enjoy playing the part."

Can you smell the slant? Zap can't.

Edited by Disco Cat (09/30/07 03:14 AM)

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Offlinekotik
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7469276 - 09/30/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i certainly smell something  :puke:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7469771 - 09/30/07 10:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Zap talks about reality? Ironic, to say the least. Reality for you is being habitually wrong and peppering your posts with taunts minus wit.

And when it comes to news, your source and research is as bad as your insults.
Thanks for the link to the suggestively negative, melodramatic reporter, with the mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words. Great find, detective, it's really important to hear the facts such as which offers were "chilling," and which statement was the "most spookily of all."




It's from the lefty anti-America darling the Guardian. I thought you'd like it. Do you have any reason to believe he misquoted Ahmadickfor? I don't and it speaks for itself. But you were too busy clarifying and spinning for the thug. When are you two hooking up?
Quote:



I also like how the article, from title to conclusion, doesn't actually have anything to do with the UN conference at all, but conjectures that while Ahmadinejad isn't a real dictator or tyrant, he "seems to enjoy playing the part."

Can you smell the slant? Zap can't.




Ummmm, you do realize he actually is a puppet of the mullahs don't you? A real front man as opposed to Bush, who is variously described as a puppet of the Bilderberg Group, the Jewish Cabal, Halliburton, the Illuminati, etc. ad nauseum. Or do you actually believe the elections in Iran are bona fide?
And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the UN conference, it has to do with his apologists and knee jerk anti-Americans on this site and elsewhere who spun for him like gyroscopes. Clearly he seems to be denying the existence of homos in his country. From todays NY Times:

Quote:

Despite Denials, Gays Insist They Exist, if Quietly, in Iran

TEHRAN, Sept. 29 — When Reza, a 29-year-old Iranian, heard that his president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had denied in New York that homosexuals were in Iran, he was shocked but not surprised. Reza knows the truth. He is gay.

Leaning back in his black leather desk chair at home in Tehran, he said there were, in fact, plenty of gay men and women in Iran. The difference between their lives and those of gays in Europe and North America is one of recognition and legitimacy.

“You can have a secret gay life as long you don’t become an activist and start demanding rights,” he said, speaking on the condition that his family name not be used because he feared retribution.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/world/middleeast/30gays.html?_r=1&ex=1348804800&en=e5c6ace9631741ff&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin





Why do you love this guy so much? He'd just as soon cut your tongue out as allow you to speak in his country.


--------------------

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OfflinePhred
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7471851 - 09/30/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

zappaisgod quotes The Guardian:

Quote:

An Iranian-American journalist asked him to clarify his extraordinary claim on Monday that there were no gay people in Iran, pointing out, "I know a few myself."

"Seriously? I don't know any," the president replied, in apparent surprise. "Give me some addresses so we're able to go to visit them and learn about them."

Given that sodomy is a crime punishable by death in Iran, it was a particular chilling offer.








Phred


--------------------

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7479811 - 10/03/07 05:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's from the lefty anti-America darling the Guardian. I thought you'd like it. Do you have any reason to believe he misquoted Ahmadickfor? I don't and it speaks for itself. But you were too busy clarifying and spinning for the thug. When are you two hooking up?



I was too busy clarifying and spinning to what, to remain flauntingly ignorant? Curious that you phrased "clarifying" to be a negative thing. I guess I'm "shocked but not surprised."

Now if you were a little bit more aware, you might see that you do actually have reason to believe this article presented a misquote:
It's an absurd comment made in a character attack piece by an open detractor who provided their own homemade translation of another spoken language.

In the working brain, these elements add up to a heavy suspicion regarding integrity. A working brain might also attempt to verify this phrase for itself, and would deffinitely refrain from propagating it, if it were too lazy or biased to go through that effort.

The translator actually spoke:
"Seriously, I don't know of any. As for homosexuality, I don't know where. Give me an address so that we are also aware of what happens in Iran."

While this statement amounts to "where, elighten me?," emphasizing his belief that homosexuality is nowhere near as widespread as in the US, your article's piece has deviated quite a bit from the actual source, making up a section on visiting them to learn about them, adding a Gestapo flavour.
This "reporter"'s cooked up line is of course made to connive others into accepting that Ahmadinejad is "chilling" and "spook(il)y," regardless of what may actually be - and as you can tell by kotik's quoting, the difference of the concoction is not escaping readers.


Quote:


Clearly he seems to be denying the existence of homos in his country. From todays NY Times:




The official word is that he doesn't deny an existence of homos in Iran. Your NY link offers nothing supporting the contrary.

Quote:


Why do you love this guy so much? He'd just as soon cut your tongue out as allow you to speak in his country.



Here's Google. Visit and use it, and learn about things before talking about them. That opinion of yours isn't grounded in reality.
And if the declaration of the facts that I've presented is what you consider as "love," then that goes a long way in explaining your bent attitude.

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: boomer q]
    #7480042 - 10/03/07 08:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

boomer q said:
i think the point is that theres art and theres "art" ... do you honestly think that lights going on and off every 5 seconds should be put in the same category as the mona lisa? didnt someone sell a blank canvas as "art" for alot of money once? theres a big difference between art that people dont like, and a blank canvas, or a very slow strobe light.....would you pay money for an "artistic" blank canvas? would you pay to enter a room just because the lights go on and off? regular people like to see that art has thought and purpose and hard work behind it....i understand that your trying to give MIT a fair shake, but they sure do like some weird and seemingly pointless things, science aside




You can make whatever definitions you want as to where art ends or begins or whatever. If you are comfortable judging art by how much someone would pay for it, or how much time it made to produce, I don't agree, but also won't try and tell you that you are wrong.

I stand by my assertion, however, that the writer of the article is an idiot of the highest degree. His disapproval of this piece of "art" or whatever you want to call it is one of three examples he uses in his article to condemn the entire Ivy League school system. This is weak, weak argument. The main reason he probably hates Ivy League schools is because he flunked out of one after getting back essay after essay with an enormous "F" right on the front of it.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7481347 - 10/03/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Well that was an amusing link to the top of the page. Thanks so much. Do you deny repression of free speech in Iran?


--------------------

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7536426 - 10/19/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
There is no proof that ties these things to Iran's gov't, at least no proof to anyone who isn't a military commander or Bush aid. Whether these weapons are coming from Iran at all is not a claim I will trust as long as it's coming from the usual suspects, altho I will not disbelieve it either, I call it unproven, and when pedelled as fact I call it propaganda.




No evidence Iran arming Taliban: Afghan foreign minister

HERAT, Afghanistan (AFP) — Afghan Foreign Minister Rangeen Dadfar Spanta said Friday there was no evidence that Iran was supplying weapons to Taliban militants waging a violent insurgency.

Spanta's comments came after the top US commander in Afghanistan, General Dan McNeill, said Thursday a convoy of explosives intercepted last month had arrived from Iran and probably with the knowledge of the Iranian military.

"Our government has no evidence to show Iran is giving weapons to the Taliban and we have never stated this," Spanta told reporters after meeting with his Iranian counterpart Manouchehr Mottaki in the western city of Herat.

US and British officials have alleged for months that weapons from Iran are going to the Taliban rebels fighting Kabul and its international allies, the main one being Washington with which Tehran has a strained relationship.

Iran has denied the allegations and Afghanistan has also said it has no proof.

Asked about McNeill's statement, Mottaki said: "These are claims that they make. For us the motives behind these claims are clear."

He did not elaborate but suggested there were contacts, which he did not make clear, between "terrorist groups in Afghanistan" and "political circles and European capitals."

Iran was fully behind the reconstruction of post-Taliban Afghanistan, both ministers said.

McNeill, the head of the 40,000-strong NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, was referring Thursday to a convoy from Iran which was stopped on September 5 in western Afghanistan.

It contained "a number of advanced technology improvised explosive devices," he said.

"It is difficult for me to conceive that this convoy could have originated in Iran and come to Afghanistan without at least the knowledge of the Iran military," he said.

The Afghan and Iranian ministers met with their Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Kasuri in Herat ahead of a conference Saturday of foreign ministers from 10 regional countries in the Economic Cooperation Organisation (ECO).

ECO incorporates Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7536501 - 10/19/07 05:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The weapons being discussed in your original quote are in Iraq. The Taliban is not operating in Iraq. Nor does Iran need to act in Afghanistan, the Paki whackjobs are quite helpful all by themselves.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7536531 - 10/19/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously. You have the same people involved in making the same claims - which in this case are shown to be empty - however, in a different region. If a person has any sense in them, it should reinforce skepticism over the validity of identical claims from the same parties, regardless of region.


I also found the photo that was mentioned earlier:


And the convincing argument that goes along with it:

Quote:

Three senior U.S. military officials in Baghdad said Sunday the “machining process” used in the construction of the deadly bombs had been traced to Iran.





It's demoralizing that was enough for some people in this thread to make up their minds, especially after the Saddam hoax.

Edited by Disco Cat (10/19/07 05:54 PM)

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Offlinepeter19
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Re: What Ahmadinejad REALLY said at Columbia (full transcript) [Re: kotik]
    #7536561 - 10/19/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/2007/09/ahmadinejad-at-columbia-university-full.html

some good quotes in here... far cries from the "OMFG he doesnt believe in homos, wtf!" hysteria being pushed by the media.

Quote:

Realities of the world are not limited to physical realities. And the material is just a shadow of supreme realities, and physical creation is just one of the stories of the creation of the world. Human being is just an example of the creation that is a combination of the material and the spirit.
And another important point is the relationship of science and purity of spirit, life, behavior and ethics of the human being. In the teachings of the divine prophet, one reality shall always be attached to science. The reality of purity of spirit and good behavior, knowledge and wisdom is pure and clear reality. It is -- science is a light. It is a discovery of reality, and only a pure scholar and researcher, free from wrong ideologies, superstitions, selfishness and material trappings, can discover the reality.




umm.. wow!? I can't imagine bush being able to read something like that, let alone speak or even comprehend it.

Quote:

I believe the Holocaust, from what we read, happened during World War II after 1930 in the 1940s.




orly? another small detail the media likes to overlook. 99.9% of the time, he is referred to as a Holocaust Denier.

Quote:

We love all nations. We are friends with the Jewish people. There are many Jews in Iran living peacefully with security. You must understand that in our constitution, in our laws, in the parliamentary elections, for every 150,000 people we get one representative in the parliament. For the Jewish community, one-fifth of this number they still get one independent representative in the parliament. So our proposal to the Palestinian plight is a humanitarian and democratic proposal.




hmm.. wants to kill all jews?

Quote:

MR. COATSWORTH: Mr. President, I think many members of our audience would be -- would like to hear a clearer answer to that question, that is -- (interrupted by cheers, applause).
The question is: Do you or your government seek the destruction of the state of Israel as a Jewish state? And I think you could answer that question with a single word, either yes or no. (Cheers, applause.)
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And then you want the answer the way you want to hear it. Well, this isn't really a free flow of information. I'm just telling you where I -- what my position is. (Applause.)
I'm asking you, is the Palestinian issue not an international issue of prominence or not? Please tell me, yes or no. (Laughter, applause.)





well done sir, well done.

and about the homosexual comment... it's pretty much what he said... they don't have homosexuals in Iran "like in America." Shame that comment alone seems to have discredited his entire speech.




good post. many people believe the propoganda and if you look into it youll see its false. its all to stir things up for a war with iran, dont buy into any of it. propoganda on ever channel.


--------------------
“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer

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