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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #7444930 - 09/23/07 05:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

He was talking about all of the Iraqi citizens that could have acted like Nelson Mandela did in bringing together their country when it was in shambles. He was stating that Saddam Hussein had all of the people capable of acting like Mandela killed off under his rule.

Was it that fucking hard to understand? I got it right away when I saw it on TV the other day.




Exactly. All the Bush bashers who pride themselves on being able to handle "nuance" seem incapable of recognizing it. Hell, this isn't even particularly subtle nuance, it's a straightforward metaphor.

From http://captainsquartersblog.com/mt/

**********************************************************
There Are Morons, But They Don't Include George Bush

It has become apparent that some journalists covering President Bush either have a learning disability or work extra hard to twist his words until the reporters turn into novelists. The latest to prove this theory correct works for Reuters, which sent out a story that claimed George Bush thought that Nelson Mandela had died, when in fact Bush used an analogy that clearly sailed over Reuters' head. It also showed that some progressive bloggers don't do much research when jumping all over a news quote: (via Memeorandum, Instapundit, and Best of the Web)

Quote:

Nelson Mandela is still very much alive despite an embarrassing gaffe by U.S. President George W. Bush, who alluded to the former South African leader's death in an attempt to explain sectarian violence in Iraq.

"It's out there. All we can do is reassure people, especially South Africans, that President Mandela is alive," Achmat Dangor, chief executive officer of the Nelson Mandela Foundation, said as Bush's comments received worldwide coverage.

In a speech defending his administration's Iraq policy, Bush said former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's brutality had made it impossible for a unifying leader to emerge and stop the sectarian violence that has engulfed the Middle Eastern nation.

"I heard somebody say, Where's Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead because Saddam Hussein killed all the Mandelas," Bush, who has a reputation for verbal faux pas, said in a press conference in Washington on Thursday.




Wow -- what a tool George Bush must be, huh? Except that's not the context of what he said. The transcript shows that Bush used an analogy that first appeared in the press almost two weeks ago, to zero faux outrage:

Quote:

There is local reconciliation taking place. I had a fascinating conversation in the Roosevelt Room earlier this week with members of provincial reconstruction teams from around Iraq who talked about how people are sick and tired of murder and violence, and that they expect their local governments and their central government to be more responsive to their needs, and local governments are beginning to respond.

Part of the reason why there is not this instant democracy in Iraq is because people are still recovering from Saddam Hussein's brutal rule. I thought an interesting comment was made when somebody said to me, I heard somebody say, where's Mandela? Well, Mandela is dead, because Saddam Hussein killed all the Mandelas. He was a brutal tyrant that divided people up and split families, and people are recovering from this. So there's a psychological recovery that is taking place. And it's hard work for them. And I understand it's hard work for them. Having said that, I'm not going the give them a pass when it comes to the central government's reconciliation efforts.




You know, it's funny that no one accused Ryan Crocker of not knowing Mandela still lives. On September 9th, a much-linked article on the history of the surge appeared in the Washington Post -- and deep within the article, we find this:

Quote:

Bush rejected suggestions to help oust Maliki, reasoning that he was the product of a democratic system that the United States helped establish in Iraq, aides said. Moreover, as officials contemplated alternatives, they concluded there was no better potential leader. "There's no Nelson Mandela in Iraq," Crocker, the ambassador, told colleagues back in Washington. "Saddam killed them all."




Clearly, even from Bush's own words, he quoted Crocker (without naming him) saying "Mandela's dead, because Saddam killed all the Mandelas." Bush didn't claim that the Nelson Mandela himself was specifically dead -- he used Mandela as a metaphor for the lack of civil disobedients that could have facilitated a peaceful transition of power. Those that had existed in Iraq got murdered by the tyrant, a fate that did not befall Nelson Mandela in South Africa.

It's really a simple analogy. In fact, it's so simple that everyone but a Reuters journalist could figure it out. That does mean a moron attended the press conference, but it wasn't the man behind the podium.

********************************************************************

For the record, I am no big fan of Bush. There are things he's done which in my opinion are dead wrong. But he's done enough ACTUAL things wrong that there's no need to manufacture more wrong stuff out of thin air -- especially things so easily shown to be bullshit that it damages the credibility of the person presenting it.

For example, in this thread alone we have a CNN talking head completely misrepresenting the content of a bill passed by Congress (NOT Bush) followed by a blatantly transparent attempt by Reuters to misrepresent Bush as a moron who thinks Mandela is dead. Both these misrepresentations are easily shot down by simply checking the original sources -- the text of the bill and the transcript of Bush's remarks. Yet the Bush bashing mainstream press figures y'all are too stupid or too lazy to expend the effort to actually do the checking -- so they can get away with saying Bush said... well... pretty much anything they claim he said.

People, we live in the age of the internet. These days it isn't necesary to have people TELL you what was said, you can find out for yourself what was ACTUALLY said. I myself never believe what is first reported at CNN or ABC or NBC or CBS or FOX or the New York Times etc., because they almost always fuck it up. These days, if I come across a story from one of those "objective" sources, I immediately head to one of half a dozen or so decent weblogs and start digging. Sure enough, if my nose tells me something sounds fishy, it almost always turns out within a day or two to BE fishy. The blogs will provide links to original videos, transcripts, text of legislation, etc. that allows you to do a reality check on what the razor-cut, blow-dried, Armani-suited talking heads CLAIM happened.

So much of what they tell you is the case turns out NOT to be the case that it's no surprise people (according to repeated polls) have less confidence in the press than they do in used car salesmen.

Modern "journalism" is a disgrace.




Phred


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #7445337 - 09/23/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

as opposed to hearing some people talk about this, is there actually a transcript of what the document says (or at least this specific portion)?

not that I wouldn't put it past Bush to do this, I'd like to see it myself


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: demiu5]
    #7445616 - 09/23/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, there is, and I've already posted a link to wilshire's post in the Politics, Activism, and Law forum here at The Shroomery which gives you that information.



Phred


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Offlineusefulidiot13
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Maverick]
    #7445663 - 09/23/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DRTMaverick said:
Yeah welcome to a country who's too passive to do anything.  But then again if you do something you'll just end up getting arrested. At least if you do something peacefully...

The public needs to learn peaceful protests are no longer affective.  The government has learned to deal with them over the past 40, 50 years.  They still don't know how to correctly deal with truly violent protests though, where cops themselves are getting dragged in the street and brutally beaten with bats.





haha damn.

they would be caught off guard at first maybe...but in the end they would probably rather us attack them in protest so that they can not feel so bad about shooting the shit out of large quantities of people they don't want alive anyways...

it doesn't matter anyways...here we all are sitting online talking about it, but not in the streets about it...

i understand many of us would like to be out there tho...i am hopeful that the near future will bring about more activity when it comes to protest and upheaval! :evil:...lol

i hope to move to Canada or Brazil within the next 4-5 years anyways...
hopefully i can peace out of this country


--------------------
What Would Dexter Do?

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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Phred]
    #7445709 - 09/23/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

ah, thank you. I saw your post with all the text but somehow missed the one above it with that link


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand


Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Phred]
    #7445834 - 09/23/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Phred thank you for clearing that up. I was a little excited after seeing the video. I need to learn not to trust ANY tv news source.

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OfflineOracle Of Delphi
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Phred]
    #7446593 - 09/24/07 03:57 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Oracle of Delphi writes:

Quote:

Didn't Bush just proclaim that Nelson Mandela died yesterday?




No. That was another thing that so-called "journalists" managed to get wrong.




Phred




Mandela still alive after embarrassing Bush remark

Fri Sep 21, 8:15 AM ET

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - Nelson Mandela is still very much alive despite an embarrassing gaffe by U.S. President George W. Bush, who alluded to the former South African leader's death in an attempt to explain sectarian violence in Iraq.
ADVERTISEMENT

"It's out there. All we can do is reassure people, especially South Africans, that President Mandela is alive," Achmat Dangor, chief executive officer of the Nelson Mandela Foundation, said as Bush's comments received worldwide coverage.

In a speech defending his administration's Iraq policy, Bush said former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's brutality had made it impossible for a unifying leader to emerge and stop the sectarian violence that has engulfed the Middle Eastern nation.

"I heard somebody say, Where's Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead because Saddam Hussein killed all the Mandelas," Bush, who has a reputation for verbal faux pas, said in a press conference in Washington on Thursday.

Jailed for 27 years for fighting white minority rule, Mandela became South Africa's first black president in 1994. He won a Nobel Peace Prize for preaching racial harmony and guiding the nation peacefully into the post-apartheid era.

References to his death -- Mandela is now 89 and increasingly frail -- are seen as insensitive in South Africa.


He said it - it matters not that he was fed info into his ear piece a few seconds later to clear up his mistake.

ooD


--------------------


http://dictionary.reference.com/


Edited by Oracle Of Delphi (09/24/07 04:14 AM)

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
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Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Maverick]
    #7446627 - 09/24/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DRTMaverick said:
Yeah welcome to a country who's too passive to do anything. But then again if you do something you'll just end up getting arrested. At least if you do something peacefully...

The public needs to learn peaceful protests are no longer affective. The government has learned to deal with them over the past 40, 50 years. They still don't know how to correctly deal with truly violent protests though, where cops themselves are getting dragged in the street and brutally beaten with bats.




Needs to be done. When the pigs are too scared to enforce wrong laws, then justice can happen. It's about time war was instigated against the police and anyone else that tortures, beats and arrests the innocent and peaceful.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Bush Pardons Himself [Re: Oracle Of Delphi]
    #7446630 - 09/24/07 05:02 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Do you not understand metaphor? Ever heard of an analogy?

This has nothing to do with anything being "fed into his ear piece". Was Crocker repeating something "fed into his ear piece" as well? Did you bother to read the commentary I provided in my earlier post? The one from http://captainsquartersblog.com/mt/ ?

It is obvious from the context of his words immediately prior to his mentioning of Mandela that this is a freaking metaphor, fa cryin' out loud.

Context, people, context!




Phred


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