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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Spirituality And This Forum
    #7443113 - 09/23/07 07:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I have a question to ask of ye posters of P&S. :wink:

Do you think this forum has anything to do with spirituality? Do we regularily discuss spiritual matters here? Is spirituality an integral aspect of this forum?

And, for the hell of it, what do you think spirituality is? :sherlock:

Personally, I see spirituality as being the perspective and the path of exploring one's perspective on the nature of life, reality.... purpose and meaning...

Personally, I find that this is a central focus of this forum, and that we use philosophy in order to consensually explore out our spirituality.

Does anyone agree with me on this one? What do you all think? :smile: What does spirituality mean to you, and does this forum seem to be all about exploring it?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443128 - 09/23/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I equate spirituality with religion and faith, both two things I am mostly against these days. So I would say no, I'm not spiritual (in that sense anyway). I'm factual. I believe in what can be proven and nothing else.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: adrug]
    #7443141 - 09/23/07 07:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

And why do you make the equation? I've always heard it stated that many athiest scientists are deeply spiritual. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443143 - 09/23/07 07:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This forum is more Philosophical than Spiritual IMO.

Philosophy is more about objective analysis and Spirituality is more about subjective faith.

Main Entry: phi·los·o·phy
Pronunciation: f&-'lä-s(&-)fE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -phies
Etymology: Middle English philosophie, from Anglo-French, from Latin philosophia, from Greek, from philosophos philosopher
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy> (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : PHYSICAL SCIENCE (2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the philosophy of war>
4 a : the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Middleman]
    #7443153 - 09/23/07 08:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, I agree that it is more philosophical than spiritual; in fact, that is why we decided to switch the order of the two words around some time ago. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: adrug]
    #7443161 - 09/23/07 08:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My question regarding the association was for you specifically, I thought I might add - I do understand the connections amongst spirituality and religion, even though they are clearly distinct phenomenons that do not share a lot of common ground. In fact, it could be affirmed that spirituality is the center essence of both philosophy and religion, and that it is simply a question of which means one wishes to utilize to immerse oneself within spirituality.

Some individuals prefer to access spirituality through unquestioned faith, some individuals prefer to utilize critical thought and questioning to analyze the nature of reality in order to arrive at the experience of spirituality. In fact, spirituality essentially is the experience of life itself - the intangible experience of reality. :levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443169 - 09/23/07 08:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This forum is different for everybody and everyone can experience it from different angles, being up to each of us what we make of it. This is why I find it to be so interesting and assorted.
Spirituality in my opinion resides in the ability to recognize the higher state of being in each of us, being able to enjoy exploring this life and feeling good about it, the way we choose to interact with others.

I think that this is the main focus of this forum, and this comes from the way each of us present our views and choose to respond to the views of others, and the fact that everybody here seem to be manifesting that sense of a greater state of presence, looking for ways to grow and make the most of this experience :yinyang:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443345 - 09/23/07 09:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Mostly this forum has to do with you flirting with MT. I guess that could be seen as spiritual. (by you)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7443412 - 09/23/07 09:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Mostly this forum has to do with you flirting with MT. I guess that could be seen as spiritual. (by you)




:rofl:

IMHO:

Philosophy: The rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.

I believe this forum is philosophical in nature, as it deals with the rational investigation of any given subject.

To try to say that it is not spiritual in nature is false, as spirituality can encompass all aspects of reality, including philosophy. In other words, ANY FORUM on this site can be declared spiritual in nature if it is so to the poster at hand.

Therefore, I would not put the label of "spirituality" on this forum exclusively. If it goes on this one, it should be on every one, as it is a subjective opinionation.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443446 - 09/23/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I suppose if I were looking at spirituality from a larger perspective, such as, we're all human, we're all alive, there's SOMETHING there that drives us, well then I see your point. In some ways maybe I am a spiritual person, even though I don't necessarily believe in all-knowing higher powers or organized religion. :shrug:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443484 - 09/23/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
I believe this forum is philosophical in nature, as it deals with the rational investigation of any given subject.




And I believe that this forum is also spiritual in nature, in that it has been orientated towards philosophical discussion of spirituality. "Any given subject", far more often than not in this forum, is the subject of spirituality. It does not take any amount of digging to readily observe this fact.

This forum does not resemble, simply, a philosophy forum. It never has. It has always been integrally associated with spirituality - philosophy being the manner in which we explore spirituality. It is not strictly spiritual, or it would be, simply, the Spiritual forum. :lol:

Quote:


To try to say that it is not spiritual in nature is false, as spirituality can encompass all aspects of reality, including philosophy. In other words, ANY FORUM on this site can be declared spiritual in nature if it is so to the poster at hand.




It isn't the same thing. :sorry:

Quote:


Therefore, I would not put the label of "spirituality" on this forum exclusively. If it goes on this one, it should be on every one, as it is a subjective opinionation.




No, that doesn't make sense. This forum has been intended for discussion of spirituality for a very long time now. Its identity involves spirituality itself, and not in some "ohh, everything is spiritual in a sense" way. The fact that it also concerns philosophy is regardless, they are very mutally associated.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443499 - 09/23/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

Quote:


To try to say that it is not spiritual in nature is false, as spirituality can encompass all aspects of reality, including philosophy. In other words, ANY FORUM on this site can be declared spiritual in nature if it is so to the poster at hand.




It isn't the same thing. :sorry:





Well I guess I don't see your point then. :sorry:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: adrug]
    #7443504 - 09/23/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
I suppose if I were looking at spirituality from a larger perspective, such as, we're all human, we're all alive, there's SOMETHING there that drives us, well then I see your point. In some ways maybe I am a spiritual person, even though I don't necessarily believe in all-knowing higher powers or organized religion. :shrug:




Yes, and I think these sorts of topics are very abundant in this forum. Even Icelander has his posts about death anxiety driving us, plus his spiritual teasing of Veritas.... :smirk:

I think what is discussed a lot here, in a philosophical way, is life itself, and that is what spirituality concerns. Life, and the experience thereof. :yinyang: Philosophy is how we work together to express and exchange these views - philosophy, of course, basically means, what, purposeful thinking? Nothing more spiritual than that, especially when it is regarding our life, the fact that we are aware, etc. etc. etc., all these common insights and experiences that we are searching to express, in a meaningful way. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443517 - 09/23/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I think what is discussed a lot here, in a philosophical way, is life itself, and that is what spirituality concerns. Life, and the experience thereof.




So... when it's convenient to your point, spirituality is all encompassing, but when it's contrary to your point, you just shoot me down with corny emoticons?

How is your point that "life itself" is what spirituality concerns any different than the point I was trying to make about how all aspects of life can be incorporated into the concept of spirituality?

Is it not just a different wording of the exact same concept?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443521 - 09/23/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Well I guess I don't see your point then. :sorry:




I've already presented my viewpoint as to how philosophy and spirituality are integrally linked in this thread. Is there anything with the ideas I've presented that you disagree with or would wish for further elaboration upon? :sherlock:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443529 - 09/23/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You've also stated that spirituality and life are integrally linked.

Does this not indicate that all the forums on this site (which, you may note, involve different aspects of this thing we call "life") are integrally linked to the concept of spirituality?

And, therefore, is it not reasonable for me to state that there is no reason for one forum in particular to don the label of "spirituality" when all the other forums can be deemed equally spiritual in nature through this integral connection between the concept of spirituality and all things in this experience we call life?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443535 - 09/23/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
So... when it's convenient to your point, spirituality is all encompassing, but when it's contrary to your point, you just shoot me down with corny emoticons?




Nope, I believe you've misinterpeted my statements. :shrug:

The expression of spirituality is all encompassing, but spirituality itself is not all encompassing. Discussing sports does not thus discuss spirituality, even though engaging in playing sports can be spiritual. Do you recognize the distinction?

Quote:


How is your point that "life itself" is what spirituality concerns any different than the point I was trying to make about how all aspects of life can be incorporated into the concept of spirituality?




Spirituality being evident within all aspects of life does not necessitate that discussing all aspects of life is thus a discussion of spirituality.

Quote:


Is it not just a different wording of the exact same concept?




Nope. :sorry: :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443541 - 09/23/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
You've also stated that spirituality and life are integrally linked.

Does this not indicate that all the forums on this site (which, you may note, involve different aspects of this thing we call "life") are integrally linked to the concept of spirituality?




Yes, they may be integrally linked, but it does not mean that all these aspects are the concept of spirituality.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443547 - 09/23/07 10:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Well I guess I don't see your point then. :sorry:




I've already presented my viewpoint as to how philosophy and spirituality are integrally linked in this thread. Is there anything with the ideas I've presented that you disagree with or would wish for further elaboration upon? :sherlock:




I could say that Mysticism and Spirituality are integrally linked.

All we're talking here is arbitrary semantics.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443550 - 09/23/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Whatever man. You win. Here, have a medal.

To me, sports is a spiritual discussion if you want it to be.

Just so you know, there are spiritual conversations that take place outside of this forum on this website.

You really annoy the fuck out of me sometimes. Is that a personalism? Please, ban me from this sinkhole.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443575 - 09/23/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I bet folks are wondering what we're arguing about. :lol:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443586 - 09/23/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
To me, sports is a spiritual discussion if you want it to be.




Sports and the act of discussing them certainly can be an expression of spirituality. It can contain within it spirituality. And what if one wishes to discuss that which is contained within sports and that discussion of it? One would discuss spirituality itself. :strokebeard:

Quote:


Just so you know, there are spiritual conversations that take place outside of this forum on this website.




I'm well-aware. :smile:

Quote:


You really annoy the fuck out of me sometimes. Is that a personalism? Please, ban me from this sinkhole.




Of course it is, and you already know I can't ban you from this forum. This is why the personalisms rule is in place, after all, because discussing personalisms obstructs the discussion of the ideas being exchanged.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Middleman]
    #7443591 - 09/23/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
I bet folks are wondering what we're arguing about. :lol:




The topic I outlined for discussion in the original thread? :confused:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443622 - 09/23/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And, therefore, is it not reasonable for me to state that there is no reason for one forum in particular to don the label of "spirituality" when all the other forums can be deemed equally spiritual in nature through this integral connection between the concept of spirituality and all things in this experience we call life?




Yes but I think that there's has to be made a distinction. That is, the difference between simply living life and being aware of the fact that we're living (how much awareness and choice we place in this experience). On the latter we have spirituality revealed.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443626 - 09/23/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Right. :thumbup:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443672 - 09/23/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Of course it is, and you already know I can't ban you from this forum. This is why the personalisms rule is in place, after all, because discussing personalisms obstructs the discussion of the ideas being exchanged.




Actually, no, I didn't know I couldn't be banned from a forum. My mistake.

Please refrain from telling me what I know in the future. :thanx:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443716 - 09/23/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I was only responding in like-kind, tit for tat. After you decided to start discussing personalisms, instead of ideas, you stated that, "just so you know, there are spiritual conversations that take place outside of this forum on this website.". You clearly assumed that I was not aware of this.

Please refrain from telling me what I know in the future. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443717 - 09/23/07 10:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Now, let us focus once again on the ideas for discussion. :hug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7443744 - 09/23/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I was only responding in like-kind, tit for tat. After you decided to start discussing personalisms, instead of ideas, you stated that, "just so you know, there are spiritual conversations that take place outside of this forum on this website.". You clearly assumed that I was not aware of this.

Please refrain from telling me what I know in the future. :smile:




Now you're telling me what I assumed? Wow, where does it end? Amazing.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443754 - 09/23/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Tell me what the meaning of the phrase "just so you know" is. :strokebeard:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443762 - 09/23/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Wow...testosterone levels really ARE highest in the morning!  :eek:  :lol:


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7443794 - 09/23/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: adrug]
    #7443904 - 09/23/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly I think spirituality is a way of life, an honest and personal approach to things.  As such, I believe we are very spiritual about our philosophy.:yesnod::cool:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7444118 - 09/23/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What is spirituality you ask? It is skillful action in wielding the Sword of Discriminating Wisdom. It is cutting at the roots of all the traps that ensnare one in the webs of space-time and force one to identify with the dramas of life which always result in death.

It is in my personal methods of staying free, moving swiftly yet keeping the Awareness, without being trapped into unbridled emotions and runaway thoughts. It is refusing to own a cell phone, it is in not watching network TV, it is in watching rather than acting on emotions that arise, it is in being altruistic and friendly but also abstaining from chit-chat. It is (still) laughing at those who run from the worksite on Friday afternoons because fulfillment is 'out there' somewhere, perhaps in some Happy Hour, but not here & now in a now-quiet, lucid, empty middle school building whence one can just mosey on home. Spirituality is keeping the same position for years with zero interest in climbing the career ladder because one prefers to counsel kids than to control co-workers. Spirituality is buying Mazdas when one can afford Mercedes' but chooses not to.

It is not about the objects and their social uses but the false assumptions about Reality that are being cut down. Spirituality is the creative expression of Truth. Therefore, there are as many manifestations of spirituality as there are persons to manifest it. Most people who are not creative merely pour themselves into the mold of religions. For me that is like the 'dummy load' my childhood friend used when tuning his ham radio. rather than sending random signals out to everyone with a ham radio through his antenna, he re-routed the signal into a gallon can of transformer oil where it nothing but heat up the oil. No communication, nothing gained by anyone. Spirituality is creative and can be manifested in everything, in certain things, or in nothing at all - which is no spirituality.

Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7444424 - 09/23/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Religion and Spirituality are not the same thing.

One is rigid, unchanging, dogma, the other is isn't.

I'm an atheist. I am also spiritual.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7444475 - 09/23/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"It is (still) laughing at those who run from the worksite on Friday afternoons because fulfillment is 'out there' somewhere, perhaps in some Happy Hour, but not here & now in a now-quiet, lucid, empty middle school building whence one can just mosey on home."

When can we tell them the big joke, boss??
Fuck.


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Diploid]
    #7444561 - 09/23/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

I'm an atheist. I am also spiritual.




Interesting. How do you consider yourself to be Spiritual?


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Middleman]
    #7444624 - 09/23/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It is very possible to be spiritual without believing in any form of god. I don't see what's the contradiction here.
Is this feeling of wondering at life and about life reserved only for those who believe in god? This is totally erroneous because it would mean that those who believe in god and consider themselves to be spiritual would form an exclusory circle where only those who share the same beliefs (or similar) are entitled to spirituality.

In my opinion, atheists are much more honest when it comes to life's mysteries because they don't claim to know The Answer, so from that point of view one could even say that atheists are even more spiritual than theists. Which in extent gives them more freedom to explore and inquire, making them able to understand more than those who are limited by religion and it's dogma (no matter the religion or dogma, from this angle it's all the same because it becomes restrictive)


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7444734 - 09/23/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Religion/mysticism is an attempt to explain an obscure concept in simple terms while cloaking it in mystery to do just as you said.  Conceal.  Paternalistic hierarchies and such??
Had some spirit filled soul never doubted the 'truth' as accepted we'd all be on auto pilot by now.  IMO.
Its a tending towards and realization of further and further truths.  A synchronization of sorts.  A vibration produced by strumming your chord of sympathetic frequencies to this crazy jungle beat mixed by an unknown competition scratch DJ that ultimately moves people to the floor and gets things shaking.
Feels good to get a handle on it, however turbulent.
Never did dance much.
I'm up for a slow song.

:lol:
:what::shrug:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7447098 - 09/24/07 09:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

To me, religion and spirituality appear to have little to do with one another.  Those who would claim that atheists/agnostics are not spiritual people are expressing a narrow definition of the term.

What drew me to psychology was the idea of applying the mind to understand our own consciousness.  The root word "psyche" means spirit or soul, which I take as descriptors of consciousness and motivation.  When I turn inward and explore my own consciousness, that is spiritual.  When I reach outward and share the fruits of my explorations, that is spiritual.  When I listen and question and test and try the expressions of others, that is spiritual.

So, yes, we definitely discuss spiritual matters here.  Spirituality is the heart of this forum, while philosophy is the mind.  Philosophy proposes how we might best structure our lives, and spirituality connects us with our most-authentic selves.  No supernatural deities need be involved, no arcane rituals, no woo-woo, no fluff.  :thumbup:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7447135 - 09/24/07 09:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"What drew me to psychology was the idea of applying the mind to understand our own consciousness. The root word "psyche" means spirit or soul, which I take as descriptors of consciousness and motivation."

Modern Shamans for sure.
Some.

Psychiatrists.


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7447139 - 09/24/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Aw, come on! Can't we have just a wee bit of fluff? :fairy:


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7447149 - 09/24/07 10:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Pile it ON Orgone.
I'll help water the lawn.
:lol:


--------------------


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7447354 - 09/24/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
It is (still) laughing at those who run from the worksite on Friday afternoons because fulfillment is 'out there' somewhere, perhaps in some Happy Hour, but not here & now in a now-quiet, lucid, empty middle school building whence one can just mosey on home.




Congratulations. How very altruistic of you.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7447636 - 09/24/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, mental exploration with different perspectives, labels, contexts and even 'laws'.
Kind of 'fluffy' under certain (even abstract) circumstances :sun:

Fluffyness is REAL ! :laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7447787 - 09/24/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
To me, religion and spirituality appear to have little to do with one another.  Those who would claim that atheists/agnostics are not spiritual people are expressing a narrow definition of the term.

What drew me to psychology was the idea of applying the mind to understand our own consciousness.  The root word "psyche" means spirit or soul, which I take as descriptors of consciousness and motivation.  When I turn inward and explore my own consciousness, that is spiritual.  When I reach outward and share the fruits of my explorations, that is spiritual.  When I listen and question and test and try the expressions of others, that is spiritual.

So, yes, we definitely discuss spiritual matters here.  Spirituality is the heart of this forum, while philosophy is the mind.  Philosophy proposes how we might best structure our lives, and spirituality connects us with our most-authentic selves.  No supernatural deities need be involved, no arcane rituals, no woo-woo, no fluff.  :thumbup:




You're so cool.:sun:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7448169 - 09/24/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I guess it depends if the poster, at the time of posting, is posting directly from the heart or from the mind. Can a discerning mind tell? Or is it all in the way it's received?

Philosophy = fluff
IMO
Religion and Spirituality have little to do with one another, but Religion and Philosophy are not too far apart, both require willed belief (faith) in an authority. Even if one claims to not be an authority, you would need to have faith to believe this claim.

But belief is not a bad thing, we all have beliefs. We communicate on this forum and believe each other not just because we seek to create spiritual communion, or seek something which we don't have, but also to affirm our already existing spiritual truths.

So this is definitely a spiritual board, where we share love and truth, I have decided.


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7448288 - 09/24/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Religion and Philosophy are not too far apart, both require willed belief (faith) in an authority. Even if one claims to not be an authority, you would need to have faith to believe this claim.




This does not make sense to me.  :confused:  Are you referring to the acceptance of some particular, pre-established system of philosophy?  I think the point of philosophy is to read the ideas that some great thinkers have proposed, formulate some of your own, then take what works for you.  This requires no faith, and it is the farthest thing from fluffy.  :lol:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448302 - 09/24/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hehehe, for those you took the partial ideas from, you may seem like fluffy or 'in your faith' :laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448305 - 09/24/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"Fluffy" in P&S slang, refers to that which is without substance, or which cannot sustain life, like cotton candy. If it is mostly air and sugar, it's not good philosophy.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448320 - 09/24/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

cotton candy can make one happy.
It's for those who lost desire in eating, imho. It rises the appetite.

Same with fluff in philosophy, imho. The appetite in life and its experimental exploration.

[Psyche=air=fantasy=philosophy (for me)
Based in existence, which is the same (or at least very similar) as our physical reality.]


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448322 - 09/24/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Veriticus is very fluffy. :yesnod:

"I am Veriticus!" ~ some unknown slave


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448331 - 09/24/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Cotton candy, and the philosophical equivalent, has no nutritive value & repeated use depletes your system.  If one's appetite for life has waned, they would do better to pursue solid nourishment, and not sticky pink stuff. :grin:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448334 - 09/24/07 04:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Someone who refutes eating can be brought to appetite with cotton candy, at least.
And if I am fed up, even cotton candy can make me happy.

No cotton candy for you anymore ! :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448338 - 09/24/07 04:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Each to his/her own, I suppose.  I prefer to keep my philosophical "teeth" strong and healthy, without the decay promoted by fluffy treats.  :wink:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448341 - 09/24/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You will miss it, once its value is proven :smile:

I still own all my 4 thingsy teeth btw, still :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448344 - 09/24/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If it has value, then it is not fluffy.  :shrug:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448355 - 09/24/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps it's a non direct perceivable value, but is all the more precious instead :shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448418 - 09/24/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

As I said, each to his/her own. :shrug:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448425 - 09/24/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, you can't tell me that you don't enjoy fairy floss from time to time.
Else, uh, it might really just be yourself :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7448450 - 09/24/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

For entertainment purposes only. :grin:  If you mean literally, no I don't like cotton candy.  Too sweet and sticky for me.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7448469 - 09/24/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
For entertainment purposes only. :grin:  If you mean literally, no I don't like cotton candy.  Too sweet and sticky for me.



:eek: Your rationality must have confused your mind !

(:lol:z)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7449148 - 09/24/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Fluff is something that has the potential to be a bridge, or it can be a terrible distraction. Some people, when offered cotton candy will take a bite in absence of anything else to eat, the sugar rush will give them the energy burst necessary to look for something more substantial. Other people will just gorge themselves on the sugary fluff as though it's a replacement for steak and potatoes (or tofu curry, whatever.) They'll have thier incredible rush for a few moments and crash hard. They will repeat the cycle over and over again, rush/crash/rush/crash and eventually be so malnourished that they will be unable to function.

Who hasn't started thier day with a cup of coffee than went to the important work of cooking up a solid meal? Who, also, hasn't grabbed a cup of coffee and hoped to coast on it as long as possible, crashing painfully an hour before lunchbreak?

Have I extended and shifted this metaphor way further than I should have? Yes. Point made, anyhow.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7449275 - 09/24/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:lol::thumbup:

Incidentally, tofu curry is one of the only things I know how to cook! :lol:  Still gotta killer sweet tooth, though. :blazed:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7451151 - 09/25/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

So how often is cotton candy really the only thing available to eat?  When one is locked into a carnival ground overnight?  :lol:  There are nearly always more nutritious, solid, growth-supporting options, yet some are so focused on the momentary sensations that they pretend no other options exist.

Over time, a steady diet of sugary treats interferes with our ability to "taste" other flavors--philosophically-speaking, the bitterness of nihilism, the relatively bland taste of personal responsibilty, the astringent tang of self-confrontation and disillusionment.  The cotton-candyist will turn up their nose at these alternative flavors, preferring the fluffy sweetness of their dogma.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7451186 - 09/25/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Very good analogies all around :thumbup:
Of course it needs skills to 'fruitfully' handle the fluffy things, but they surely are not all bad.
Especially children like this :smile:
Now add a little parenthood and not loosing the inner child while growing up and voila, wonderful useful fluffy stuff is back in town :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: dorkus]
    #7452134 - 09/25/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452147 - 09/25/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well, who really lives on only cotton candy?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452154 - 09/25/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Philosophically or physically?  :lol:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452188 - 09/25/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Either. The most fluffy person on these boards have had solid things to say IMO, and I have found myself in agreement with them or in shared experience.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452194 - 09/25/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. :wink:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452197 - 09/25/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You are ignoring the point.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452219 - 09/25/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't agree.  Addiction to cotton candy philosophy/religion is widespread, and many seem to live on fluff alone. :shrug:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452234 - 09/25/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The one area where the analogy falls short is when fluffy spiritually actually does sustain people. How do you know there are not people who do not live happy and fulfilling lives while never getting more philosophical than things like, "The secret to happiness is to love and be loved," or "God watches out for all his children"? To say that there are no people who find sustenance and joy in such concepts without ever delving deeper, would be judgemental and closed-minded.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452272 - 09/25/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I'm not ignoring it, I just don't agree.  Addiction to cotton candy philosophy/religion is widespread, and many seem to live on fluff alone. :shrug:




I just don't think it's that black and white. Especially when I look into my own belief system and as bug pointed out, lack of certainty.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (09/25/07 03:25 PM)


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Lion]
    #7452278 - 09/25/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'll believe it when I see it. :shrug:  What I have seen is fluffy philosophy/religion breaking down whenever the going gets even a little bit rough.  If you can't tolerate a 10 minute wait on line at the grocery store without changing your mind about "we're all one" or "the secret to happiness is love and be loved," then it is fluff.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452289 - 09/25/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You and I have a friend that indulges in some "fluffy physolophy" (John S). I don't think he breaks down waiting in line.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452290 - 09/25/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How is "we're all one" any more fluff than "I am a spiritual warrior!"?


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7452292 - 09/25/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It's in ones acts. That's all that counts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452295 - 09/25/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I can easily identify the "We are all one" crowd by the negative ratings they hand out when their beliefs are challenged. :rofl2:


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452297 - 09/25/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly. Philosophy is all in the mind and words, spirituality is your actions.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452298 - 09/25/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's in ones acts. That's all that counts.




On that we agree.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452303 - 09/25/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You and I have a friend that indulges in some "fluffy physolophy" (John S). I don't think he breaks down waiting in line.




He does not live by cotton candy alone. :grin:  Those who do, will not withstand the grocery store test.


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Veritas]
    #7452317 - 09/25/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well that was my point. I don't think anyone lives "only" on cotton candy(although it might seem that way)or only on health food(although it might seem that way). It's all a matter of degree and that degree runs the gamut.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Spirituality And This Forum [Re: Icelander]
    #7452703 - 09/25/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"When one is locked into a carnival ground overnight?"

Get ready for that.  Overnight...??  Dang thats quick.
Carnies with water pistols and throwing darts.
Swing the hammer.
Hit the button.
Throw it in the cup.
Win a giant stuffed animal for your study.
Ride the zipper and bumper boats.
Watch the hypnotist show.
Wake up and show your pig.
Oh dang this ain't Fair.
Enough with this country music already.
Are you excited for the demolition derby??
Something about stamping hands when you leave so you can get back in.
:hehehe:

Seriously though, we ARE all ONE, yes??
Does this really mean that we all have to act the same or meet some standard set by people like...??
Believe in yourself??
Know thy self??
I am not like most, I know this...  I love it.:heartpump:
We are also snowflakes.  Which makes each of us UNIQUE.
I think an accurate reflection would be most disorderly.
Might you know how to tame the chaos??  A puff of fluff does enough, tough.  Some muffs are rough and buff and have had enough.:lol:
The grocery store line??
What does this prove??

:rolleyes:

Spirituality is not all love and compassion.  I wish.  I hope.:werd:
We are fucking animals.
Shadow??
Real.

Is this the wrong direction to be moving in??  Relative to what??
Is there a reality to anything else spiritual that we can explore??
I have faith.
I choose both.  Is this wrong??

When really going through this never mind the grocery line.
All in good time.:sunny:

Might be more progress being made in a difficult experience like your 'grocery line test' than you think.:shrug:


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