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jeetered
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Registered: 07/07/06
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: canid]
#7613815 - 11/09/07 05:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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bioassay?
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Prankster239
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: jeetered]
#7615973 - 11/09/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This shrooms are awesome. I hope its an new species and not an mutation.
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why_not_me
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Those pics of the blueing made my day. Amazing
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Drewwyann
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: cactu]
#7616883 - 11/09/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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does anyone know what the function is for the jelly-like substance in the cap?
That is one amazing fungus. I envy you cactu.
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Subbedhunter420
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Quote:
Prankster239 said: This shrooms are awesome. I hope its an new species and not an mutation.
I think we were all wishing that one Prankster. Sadly, Workman did the microscopy earlier in the thread and said they seem to be mutant zapotecorums. I wish it were only a new species. Keep your fingers crossed. I can only wonder at the potency.
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Workman
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Psilocybe zapotecorum is extremely variable in its described features and is difficult to pin down. At the very least this specimen is very closely related to P. zapotecorum. A comparison with normal specimens from the same locality will help with the determination. Even if it isn't a new species, it is still a unique variant and well worth a cultivation attempt.
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cactu
culture and magic


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Re: mutation , ? [Re: Workman]
#7618796 - 11/10/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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jeettered said:bioassay? subbedhunter420 said: I can only wonder at the potency.
bioassay will be perform next year, i did my contibution to the science , my job is done. well now is time to enjoy the find , but i will wait for next year i have few dry ones but i like to try fresh ones for a real contac with psilocybe ..
Drewwyann said: does anyone know what the function is for the jelly-like substance in the cap?
you may refer the pictures of alan that the mushrooms are open in two is just they are pretty wet that´s all , there is no jelly substance , there, i have notice also in zapotecorun sometimes they have lot of water inside the stem ..
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Workman
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: Workman]
#7636917 - 11/14/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Preliminary microscopy of cactu's Psilocybe zapotecorum specimens. I didn't add the central pictures of the mushrooms yet because I wasn't 100% sure which ones are which.
The composite below is of a large specimen of Psilocybe zapotecorum. Spores are around 6.5-7.4 micrometers. A bit larger than the mutant's spores but more in line with published descriptions for P. zapotecorum (5.5)6.6-7.1(8.8). This specimen also has very large, abundant and distinctive Pleurocystidia.

This next specimen was labeled Nippled Psilocybe zapotecorum. The spores are slightly smaller at 5.5-7.0 micrometers, which is closer to the mutant's spore size (5.5-7.2) and the cheliocystidia are very similar in form and size to the mutant. I am thinking now I have the wrong structure identified as a pleurocystidium in the mutant composite and will look again to see if I can find matching pleurocystidia. The mutant specimens are hard to work with as the gills are much reduced.

What all this seems to suggest is that the top composite is authentic Psilocybe zapotecorum and the nippled and mutant are another closely related but distinct species (maybe Psilocybe barrerae). The mutant appears to be a mutation, but of the nippled species and not of P. zapotecorum. Isn't this fun?
My earlier assessment that the mutant was Psilocybe zapotecorum seems to have been premature. Although it is in the Section Zapotecorum and is a close relative, I now have my doubts on its identity. Especially now that I have looked at a specimen that is a closer match to the description for P zapotecorum. Hopefully I can pin down an exact species in the near future. Psilocybe barrerae looks possible with good matches with the cheliocystidia and the pleurocystidia with the finger-like extensions
Comparisons of Pleurocystidia
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Edited by Workman (11/14/07 08:19 PM)
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kaal-kopje
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: canid]
#7638337 - 11/15/07 04:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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truely breathtaking species and pictures. That blueing is insane!
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cactu
culture and magic


Registered: 03/06/06
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thank you , thank you. i´m craying right now of happyness
i s like i was blind all the time , and i starting to see shadow and few colors, at leats i was able to determinate what look like in macroscopoc appearence, but are very variable i would´t be surprise if a new specie is there , or more variant. i know ps zapotecorum is one of the biggest mushrooms of the genus psilocybe in the world . guzman said that in his master peice the genus psilocybe , so the species i have found with caps of 14 centimeter wide , and 26 cm long in the stem , are really amazing also this big ones only grow in the other side of the river , i like in one side of the river was one poblation the small zapotecorum and niples ones and also the ps. villareallii or what look like , then in the vertical wall are some zapotecorum and few crazy ones as the niples one, then you pass to the other side and is the monster area , this are the big , caespitosa.cluster. i have show all the time that are bigert than mi face all the time , this ones always grow in groups, have pseudoryzza and some how something diferent , this also remind me of the place where the supost laurae and villareally grow there must be growing also many species, . thank you workman , every time we are more closer , and more happy.
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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Workman
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: cactu]
#7639913 - 11/15/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, I spent some more time with the mutant under the microscope and I can't see any of the large pleurocystidia which are obvious on the other 2 samples. So I guess that blows the theory that the nippled mushroom and the mutant are the same species. Maybe the mutation is affecting the microscopic structures. The next step is to search the literature for a matching description and a cultivation attempt.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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cactu
culture and magic


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Re: mutation , ? [Re: Workman]
#7643673 - 11/16/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well ,that is more comprehensive for me , i mean the nipples are not as close to the mutant , the mutant are really strange for sure, and grow very big sometimes like a long stick . like in the first pictures of this tread . thank you work man , keep me up date about cultivation attempt and to see if they can interbreed with each others , that would probe are different species, or really related ,well also DNA study but we can perform that later, + all my best vibration my friend
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  cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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Workman
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: cactu]
#7643745 - 11/16/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am compiling everything I can find in the Zapotecorum Section into one easy to reference document. This should help pin down likely species for these samples. I find it maddening how Guzman organizes his descriptions and having to look through 4 or more references (1 in Spanish) isn't easy. This should be done next week or so.
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: cactu]
#7680173 - 11/25/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks like a Psilocybe zapotecorum mutation resembling the Penis Envy strain of cubensis.
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legallyhomeless
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wow beautiful blueing
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grod31
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: cactu]
#8195752 - 03/26/08 09:18 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry to bring up an old thread i was wondering if anyone knew the outcome to this and what it was declared if anything.
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Subbedhunter420
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: grod31]
#8196068 - 03/26/08 11:15 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe they were just simply mutated zapotecorum. Like someone mentioned before, its like the penis envy srain for Zapotecorum.
Thats what I heard last about this. Workman was the one doing the microscopy so he would know for sure.
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
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No, it was never identified. It is probably a new species rather than a mutant.
From this thread:
Quote:
My earlier assessment that the mutant was Psilocybe zapotecorum seems to have been premature. Although it is in the Section Zapotecorum and is a close relative, I now have my doubts on its identity. Especially now that I have looked at a specimen that is a closer match to the description for P zapotecorum. Hopefully I can pin down an exact species in the near future. Psilocybe barrerae looks possible with good matches with the cheliocystidia and the pleurocystidia with the finger-like extensions
Quote:
Ok, I spent some more time with the mutant under the microscope and I can't see any of the large pleurocystidia which are obvious on the other 2 samples. So I guess that blows the theory that the nippled mushroom and the mutant are the same species. Maybe the mutation is affecting the microscopic structures. The next step is to search the literature for a matching description and a cultivation attempt.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: mutation , ? [Re: CureCat]
#8196663 - 03/26/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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> i was wondering if anyone knew the outcome to this and what it was declared if anything.
I think it is a new species. Its a different habitat than the zapotecorums, growing only behind this one tree stump right next to the water. They blue much quicker and look quite a bit different.
One big flood and its gone forever. The samples Cactu and I collected last september did not dry properly and rotted, I hope to get some better material this year.
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Subbedhunter420
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Thats tragic. A new species that might never be seen again. And I wonder how they still exist in such rarity...
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