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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7442258 - 09/22/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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OK, lets take this in the direction of wolfiexiii's post....
Is it only the mind that makes you "you", or is it the body/mind combo that make you "you"....? If/when biotechnology gets to a point where a brain can be placed in a different body, would the resulting person be a "new" person....?
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: wolfiexiii]
#7442281 - 09/22/07 11:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolfiexiii said: No, just on a light shroom trip.. 2 grams nibbled over about 4 hours...
i just added that book to my library waiting list tho... thank the king country library's online book system =)
You won't be disappointed, I guarantee you. 
Although, it's the third in a trilogy and you might be missing a few links, but it actually really can stand on its own and it's much, much more badass than the other two books put together. 
I loooooved the King County Library System, while I lived there. Dang. Down here in the Carrollton suburb of Texas we only have two libraries, and nothing gets transferred from one city to another.
Anyways, you might want to check out Blaster the Rocketman too, depending on what kind of music you are into. It's kind of a combination of different types of punk, but much more than just that. If you like the Dead Kennedys, the Ramones and music such as like, except injected with a rocket full of energy, style and creativity, songs about monsters and other planets, then you'll love their stuff. Highly recommended.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7442308 - 09/22/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said: OK, lets take this in the direction of wolfiexiii's post....
Is it only the mind that makes you "you", or is it the body/mind combo that make you "you"....? If/when biotechnology gets to a point where a brain can be placed in a different body, would the resulting person be a "new" person....?
>^;;^<
I think the reason this is so difficult is that we have to deal with the philosophical equation of what makes a person "them", or whether there can be several ways to identify someone, several different perspectives on identity itself, or on a linguistic level, several different definitions for identity.
If we're a product of our environment, that no one is themselves without other things and other people. And at the same time, we are constantly exchanging particles with our environment, so as I think OrgoneConclusion said, we are actually a process.
But at the same time, how can we possibly refer to someone when, at that very moment, they are in flux? The mind screams for an answer, but none seems immediately obvious. 
What a headache. But it's still not gonna stop me from calling you "you" and me "me".
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Actually, now that I reflect on it some more , I think if we regard the fact that people flow in different patterns (one way of demonstrating this would be to say that we have different personality types, or consciousnesses being directed in different fashions on different wavelengths), then the pattern or process itself may be said to be that person. In which case, it wouldn't matter how much matter, energy, emotion, etc., flowed through that person, as long as it continued to flow basically the same way, in a transition from the former sub-personal particles (emotional, physical or otherwise).

-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Well, technically, during the operation, there will be a section in time that the brain is NOT connected to either one of the bodies.... At this section of time, which part of the functions/process is "YOU" within the separate; Body #1 Body #2 Mind #1
?

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7442382 - 09/23/07 12:26 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said: Well, technically, during the operation, there will be a section in time that the brain is NOT connected to either one of the bodies.... At this section of time, which part of the functions/process is "YOU" within the separate; Body #1 Body #2 Mind #1
?

>^;;^<
The body of energy (typically called the spirit) which holds all of these things together, brain and body.
Let me explain my viewpoint to you, which I hope will be borne out more fully by science someday. There's a spirit which gives life to the body, which is composed of invisible energy, which the Hebrews called the ruach, or breath of life. The Hindus refer to the subtle energies which are linked to the spine. When the body is unable to be held together by this spirit any longer, it returns to the Great Spirit from which it was formed (this part, of course, will probably never be borned out by at least earthly science).
All you need to know is that metaphysical experiences and experiments have alluded to this phenomena, not just including ghosts and the energy resonating in haunted houses and so forth, but numerous other phenomena as well. A recent experiment involved subjects unwittingly being given virtual reality goggles in which they saw behind themselves and reacted accordingly - if something threatened 'their' space, (which was actually the empty space behind them), they often jerked violently.
My own hypothesis is that their spirit, which is an invisible energetic presence, extended beyond just their body with the apparent perception of them being elsewhere. You also see this with out-of-body and after-life experiences, where people float as spirits through the space-time dimension separate of their bodies.
That energetic, indestructible presence is what, I believe, composes the real "you".
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7442949 - 09/23/07 05:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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As soon as there are two 'things' at the scene, one has to make distinctions. The easiest in this case is 'new' and 'old'. By this, there also can be 2 MaryJanes at the same time. Both would be THE MaryJane. THE new MJ and the OLD MJ. One could also discern, that THE MJ is actually only this, which is currently in use by its crew. As soon the old (or the new, or unused) dissolves, there will be just only one MJ again, so the distinction will be unnecessary again.
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Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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The analogy is incorrect. You could build a complete replica of a ship, and use the same crew on it, but it wouldn't be the same ship, it would work like the previous ship does.
A person, if you built a replica, would not be the same person, not without that person's personality and memories. When a body regenerates, all that information is preserved, so someone in a new body would still be them, they'd just have a new body.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Purposal context
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dream_alchemy
*&*


Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 135
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7446344 - 09/24/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are the question and the answer.
-------------------- I'm just passing thru u
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backfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Who are WE, really....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7446895 - 09/24/07 08:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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How about you test it. You get the old crew to board the recently renovated vessel. You make note of weather the MJ still connects with the many memories of the crew. If they think it still carries the MJ essence due to the associations in their memories then hell it works, no?? But brand new. I tend to think you could paint 'Devil Weed' or 'Kind Buds' on the side and have it be remembered as the original MJ if it was correctly restored. Doesn't make it what it is now though, of course. But it could fool someone in a good way.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Unfortunately, the ships perished in a tragic fire that burned both to a small pile of ashes.... Apparently there were a few Shroomerites that took the names of the boats too seriously and tried to smoke them.... 

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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