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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7443270 - 09/23/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wutang said: wow i've never heard of casing a straight grain sounds like failure..spawning is way better
Ok, thanks for telling me. By spawning you mean putting myceliated grain into a bulk substrate - right?
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7443281 - 09/23/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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lol yes, put it in layers like lasanga or however you spell it
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simplemachine
Manfly


Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7443298 - 09/23/07 08:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And is it best to pasteurize the jars of grain, before inoculation? Or pressure cook them?
Oh PC for sure. Grain w/o a PC is a road to heartache.
Quote:
So if you do bulk substrate you basically don't need to pasteurize the fruiting chamber if it's a large rubbermaid - just rub with alcohol?
Fruiting chambers, greenhouses, closets where you keep them, NONE of it has to be sterile, just clean is good enough.
@ wutang - to post as much as you do and not have heard of that is nuts.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7443343 - 09/23/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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K thanks I think I'm done with questions for now..gotta read up on the bulk substrate and pasteurizing though, I haven't done that. Which will prob. lead to more q's but I hope not. Thanks a lot dudes
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7443375 - 09/23/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Casing straight grains is fine. It leads to harvest much sooner. You could get a larger harvest by spawning your grains to bulk substrate, but laying the colonized grains into a tray and casing them works very well. It's the old standard. Grains must be sterilized. Bulk substrates and casing material are best pasteurized. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7443531 - 09/23/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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So if I have this right:
The whole grain is the main protein for the mycelium/shrooms, and the bulk substrate is like the micro climate/nutrient provider for the mycelium?
Is this why one could not just use whole grain (same as what they used in their jars) as a bulk substrate - because it'd be a bad micro climate? Or could you do that?...
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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soulsizzle
nobody f**kswith The Jesus


Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 632
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7445833 - 09/23/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bulk substrates serve the exact same purpose as your grains do. They both provide the food for the mycelium to grow. Bulk substrates are essentially just a means to expand your mycelium network further. This is why bulk substrates are more suited to relatively larger crops than straight grains. However, you cannot simply inoculated a bulk substrate with a spore syringe. This is why users of bulk substrate begin with grain jars and then spawn to their bulk substrate. Bulk subs also hold moisture better. This is not the "micro-climate" that you refer to above. The casing layers sole purpose is to provide this micro-climate. A casing layer should not provide any nutrients to your mycelium but only act as another source of water.
Additionally, using bulk substrates is certainly not faster. After waiting for your grain jars to fully colonize, now you have to wait for your bulk substrate to fully colonize as well. However, as many will tell you, patience is a virtue in this hobby and you will be rewarded well if you practice it.
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Edited by soulsizzle (09/23/07 09:38 PM)
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MFGFA37
Me For God ForAll



Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Cheese and Beer
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7446188 - 09/23/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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well i'm learning too... thanks!
-------------------- There is no try, only do. -Yoda- Take no thought for tomorrow, tomorrow shall take thought for itself. Sufficient for one day are the thoughts/worries for that day. Any thought past this is useless. -Ole Jesus-
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7446382 - 09/24/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: So if you do bulk substrate you basically don't need to pasteurize the fruiting chamber if it's a large rubbermaid - just rub with alcohol?
And is it best to pasteurize the jars of grain, before inoculation? Or pressure cook them?
Holy Jesus! There is so much confusion here!
Quote:
So if you do bulk substrate you basically don't need to pasteurize the fruiting chamber
You don't pasteurize a fruiting chamber! you sanitize it, "at best", with alcohol or a surface disinfectant. and Quote:
And is it best to pasteurize the jars of grain, before inoculation? Or pressure cook them
you sterilize jars before inoculation by pressure cooking them.
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AMU Q&A thread.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: The shroomy 1]
#7446470 - 09/24/07 01:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The shroomy 1 said:
Quote:
VisionsToReality said: So if you do bulk substrate you basically don't need to pasteurize the fruiting chamber if it's a large rubbermaid - just rub with alcohol?
And is it best to pasteurize the jars of grain, before inoculation? Or pressure cook them?
Holy Jesus! There is so much confusion here!
Quote:
So if you do bulk substrate you basically don't need to pasteurize the fruiting chamber
You don't pasteurize a fruiting chamber! you sanitize it, "at best", with alcohol or a surface disinfectant. and Quote:
And is it best to pasteurize the jars of grain, before inoculation? Or pressure cook them
you sterilize jars before inoculation by pressure cooking them.
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: Blutjager]
#7446665 - 09/24/07 05:40 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7449428 - 09/24/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Haha. Whoa. Well good I understand now how it all goes. I swear, for a beginner, it's kind of hard sorting out all these steps & techniques just arriving to the site. Jumping around the FAQs and techniques didn't really do it for me. But that's why you good people are here so thanks =)
Anyways this is what I've decided at the moment -
Cambodian strain Wild bird seed grain (rhymes) Compost substrate (and maybe hay?)
3 things with that -
1) Does it matter what kind of hay I get - I may not be able to find out. I thought I remember in my reading here only to get particular types of hay..but does it really matter that much?
2) What function does the hay serve - why would it be better to use hay+compost rather than just compost?
3) If I can't find hay and only can find compost, what'd be good to substitute for the hay?
I figure this plan should work as long as I follow the basic rules of zee bulk substrate. Yes?
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
Edited by VisionsToReality (09/24/07 09:37 PM)
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7449547 - 09/24/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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use hay you see pumpkin patches, fuck timothy hay, i heard that contams
remember straw is just an additional ingrediant, not needed like a cupcake with sprinkles, it doesnt need them but it makes it better i'd rather use coir than compost, coir+coffee+straw poo coir coffee and straw makes monsters, they just love shit!!
 monsters
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7465263 - 09/28/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok: First off, that's a sweet bin; I'm inspired and envious =)
At this point I'm confused on how to prepare an inoculated substrate in the large rubbermaid.
Hypothetical situation: I have compost/hay available (I'll add coir if I can get it) for the substrate. (Vermiculite is easily obtainable if needed)
Lets say I pasteurized this substrate - WBS jars are fully colonized - and I have a sterile large rubber maid bin.
Ok, now what? 1. I need to know exactly how to inoculate the substrate with the WBS (Do I mix WBS through ought the substrate? Or do I make layers of substrate and WBS in some sort of fashion?)
2. How deep should the resulting substrate/WBS mixture or layering be once in the rubbermaid?
3. Would it be beneficial to cover the whole substrate with a casing layer such as vermiculite, after the substrate is inoculated with the WBS?
4. After this is all prepared, I cover the rubbermaid with a piece of saran wrap (do I poke holes in it?) and wait until it is time to initiate fruiting - correct? Or do I have to provide fresh air BEFORE I initiate pinning?
5. Coffee: Do you mean liquid coffee, or used coffee grounds?
THANK YOU so much for your patience. I'm really glad I have you good people to help me with starting out.
I apologize for asking so many questions. I'm just the type of semi obsessive person who wants these things planned out and detailed so I know exactly what I'm doing every step of the way. I do the exact same annoying thing in labratory settings, lol.
Edited by VisionsToReality (09/28/07 07:10 PM)
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wutang
fungi



Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 1,903
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7465333 - 09/28/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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i understand man, its like, no one helped most of us, we had to learn all that crap. read read read, it is the best! but i can help you, im interested in seeing your grows if you have a camera.
-layers, mixing isnt great because the mycelium is broken and needs to repair, layers the mycelium can knit back together and take off growing.
what ever depth you want, just dont go over 6 inches
of course it is!! just let the sub get fully colonized verm is the best
no need to even put wrap on
no air!! no light!! until you fruit
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: About to embark on a whole grain journey. Assurance & Answers seeked! [Re: wutang]
#7465370 - 09/28/07 07:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok thanks a lot and pics will be available when the time comes!
So this is what I envision:
Bottom Layer = Substrate (2") Middle Layer = WBS spread evenly as possible (1-2" ?) Top Layer = Substrate (2")
Let fully colonize, throw on a layer of 1/2" vermiculite (moistened to field capacity), and fruit when mycel. pokes thru.
Cool?
Also:
I'm at the end of my question-rope almost:
-Is it OK if I place a plastic sheet or even tinfoil over the rubbermaid top to keep airborne contaminants from being introduced?
-Is it OK if this is an airtight seal for the 2 or so weeks it'll take to fully colonize the substrate?
I have a good amount of plants I grow, and fertilize with fish ferts. Some of the soil is from OUTDOORS (yikes) and if that soil gets moist, BAM - I have cobweb mold on the top. Which normally isn't a problem, but now....it may be.
I also have some other organic stuff like dead dried cat tails hangin around as decoration.
So, I'm worried about airborne contams given the ease of cobweb mold I see growing. I keep my place as clean as I can, but the presence of these plants/organic material worries me somewhat.
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